Anyway, I have a potentially nit-picky question but I wanna ask both Fonti and Cobalt:

You've both expressed some thoughts about what would happen if you ended up in a final 3 with me, and both of you made comments about how I might vote. I found both of these posts weird because, have I indicated that I'd be swayable onto Cobalt in a final 3? Or that he'd be the "easy yeet" for me?

I'm asking because I'm genuinely not sure. It feels like a weird perspective to me that you'd both consider some form of "Yes, Dels would vote Cobalt in final 3" even though I had basically only shown resistance to that idea.

Just curious to hear a bit more of your perspectives on this, whatever thoughts you have.

 

Anyway, this is too many words so I'mma tl;dr and we can get into it later if people want me to expand but

There's no huge reason I wouldn't vote Fonti today, I'm just not convinced she's the best yeet, nevermind the scum. The things that Gemma and Reg started saying about Fonti yesterday were the things I was feeling about Fonti on, like, day 2 and was told I was crazy for seeing them. But then I felt yesterday was Fonti's best day and I agreed with all the townpoints Reg/Gemma were making and I agree with Fonti's towncase on herself. So, I dunno. My paranoia is still there but I don't wanna yeet her today. Gemma, if you're back to Fonti town and we can lock that in then yeah maybe the game just gets simple again.

Anyway, for Fonti to be scum there'd just have to be... all these things that don't make sense about how she handled the game and how she's navigated through it. It'd just be really weird. For Cobalt to be scum, same, what Fonti/I said, it just doesn't make sense. For Waco to be scum... It'd just have to mean that he pulled a good scum game out of his hat and was able to make good, effortful posts that look like they contain depth of thought and confidence. It'd be a good scum game, but it wouldn't make me go "wow, that's so weird, I have no idea why he chose to play the game like this" like I would about the other two.

So that's where I'm at.

 

Dumb question: Were there seriously nearly not enough votes for a soft maj yesterday?

I know I wasn't there but that's 6 people who were, with Vaimes not voting himself that's 5 available votes with 4 needed, even if Waco didn't show up, wasn't everyone else around/had a vote down? Or am I dumb and missing something?

My point being, if there was a risk of no yeet, then does it look good for Waco that he showed up to vote? He had said he was at work and may not be able to, so he could have just never returned, let it no yeet (which I believe would remove a yeet from town) and had an excuse for why he wasn't there?

 

I don't wanna bring in IRL/availability stuff though so if it's a bad question just don't answer

 

Also I agree about please don't self-vote. I don't usually like to tell people how to play but. It makes it really hard to tell if you're doing the most you can to concede without explicitly saying "I'm the wolf" (because of play-to-wincon rule). Vaimes did this yesterday so it clearly can come from town, but it just. Makes it hard to be objective. Especially in this gamestate where a wolf would want to concede. (But Cobalt wouldn't because he literally has a path to the end with Fonti and I defending him so???)

 

Idk what fonti is using to townread Cobalt, if you're referring the quotes she pulled it's just a bunch of random interactions with flipped wolves, don't care about them. fonti and I have never seen antialigns the same way.

I'm not sure it's never fonti, why do I have to be sure it's never fonti? If you're asking why I said I'm killing Cobalt and Waco, it's because I think they did stuff that has made them need to die more than fonti and also I don't think she's even good enough as a wolf to play the way she has here. I think I was being stupid yesterday with my fonti stuff, that's about it. If she's a wolf, cool, good for her, it's all the same to me. I'm never playing with her again, doubt I'm playing any mafia again for a long time, already wrote too many words in this game and don't think there needs to be any more from me. If you want to vote her tomorrow be my guest, I really don't care and I'm not going to tell you what to do with your own vote. You're a smart boy and you can handle yourself.

 

It also just perpetuates possible concession meta for the future (i.e. well if they're the last wolf then why haven't they conceded yet) which I think is bad for community game health

 

Okay. Thanks, Gemma. That was... somewhat blunt. >_> But it does actually help. I won't ask you to do more than you want to do.

 

Sorry if I offended/hurt you.

 

You did not, I understand where you are coming from.

 

0% chance the wolf wants to concede here.

 

Huh? I don't get your obsession with wifom. The things you're describing from Waco are just towny. How is being towny the wolfiest thing a person can do, that is just baffling to me. If fonti's a wolf there's no weird path, she just bussed her partners because she had to because Regfan and committed to winning in f3 and now she's pushing on the harder lynch in Waco so that in a you/her/Cobalt f3 she has a shot at winning, it's simple and obvious. If Cobalt's mafia he did some bad and super wolfy shit, there's no reverse angle where that bad and wolfy shit somehow becomes towny good shit, it's just bad, the fact that it's blatantly bad doesn't somehow make it good, even if you want it to be it's not the kind of thing you clear people for in an endgame situation it's kind of shit you squint at and hope something better comes along later.

 

You're right, I was sort of stuck in the past. Gamestate looked bad for wolf a few days ago but at this point there's 2 yeets left and everyone besides you is on the table to some extent, so they really wouldn't. Anyway, not a topic I want to dwell on.

 

Anyway yeah I think I'm being overly blunt rn so I should dip out.

 

Hi have you met me. Para is going to have a laugh at this being something someone said to me.

But, serious response, yes, you and I have very different ideas about how to read a game. I look at things from a perspective of assuming the wolf always has a plan that they believe will lead them to a win, and I start with the assumption that that plan is probably going to be a straightforward one that doesn't involve making super risky/weird plays or sticking their neck out too far.

Yes, if Fonti is scum that means she basically committed to bussing partners, even when she didn't have to. She started going against Amy earlier, way before Reg had thoughts there. I do admit it seems she didn't go all-in on Cuth until Reg did. Then she gets the towncred from that, gets Reg townreading her, and... shoots him twice...? It's weird. I do admit there is potential wolf agenda though in how she tried to push through the tom yeet and how she also drove through the Vaimes yeet, after building up cred and knowing she could endgame, hence why I have her as my 2nd pick.

But like I said, I start with those assumptions, it's just one perspective. Sometimes wolves just do wolfy shit. I already had this discussion with Reg yesterday and I'm assuming you read it so I don't really wanna rehash it. This is all just one way of viewing a game, but it's the way I default to. And Waco's narrative as a wolf would make the most sense, there'd never be any moment where I'd say "But wait, I don't get why he chose to handle it this way???? Why did he make this really weird/risky decision? Why did he go for this read at the moment he did? Why did he double down on this when he didn't have to?" etc. (Whereas Fonti and I's townread on Cobalt comes from believing there are moments where he purposefully did things that he didn't have to do, that would only make him look worse. Things that wouldn't just be "he's a wolf looking wolfy" but more like unforced errors)

 

It's fine. We have some very different views on how to play mafia. You also touched on my tendency towards wanting to listen to other's reads, which I also talked about today. When I said your post above genuinely helped, I meant it, because it gives me permission to not feel "I have to listen to Gemma about Fonti" and/or "Gemma is one of the ones who have Cobalt dead so maybe I should defer"

Meh. I don't really know if I wanna talk about this more. Having differing views is fine anyway it's the way a town is supposed to work. I'm not sure I have anything else to say.

 

(And the reason being towny is the worst thing a person can do is because townies look wolfy AF, and wolves do everything they can to look towny, and despite sometimes being awkward and failing at it, sometimes they succeed - because it's what they're actively trying to do, and townies aren't trying to look towny)

that's the perspective i view a game through. anyway, done now, don't feel like you need to respond.

 

If I were scum, meaning you were both gauranteed to be town, I would expect a you/Cobalt final 3 to be harder than a you/Waco or a Waco/Cobalt one, and that's my point. Reg and Gemma didn't see that because (I think/hope) they're tunneled on Cobalt.

This isn't me coming around to agreeing with you on Cobalt now, this is something I've been saying since the beginning of Day 3. The only difference is post yeet Yesterday I spent four hours rereading and wanting to figure this out, and found Cobalt quotes to Amy I hadn't remembered.

@Gemma Those posts matter because scum!Cobalt cares about setting himself and his teammates up to look good if he or them flips. But almost everything he wrote was further doubling down on buddying up to Amy and Cuth.

I don't get why you think Waco has been towny and would like you to talk about it if you're up for it.

 

Iirc, Cobalt is always self conscious, so that doesn't really move the needle for me? I think he's making an effort thus game to be less toxic, and that could be a scum thing, but I don't think it is and I don't think it outweighs his treatment of Cuth and Amy. Like, for him to be a wolf, he would have had to been consciously trying to fool me specifically while knowing it was going to make him look bad to most people.

 

Talk about me and Dels, Waco.