Why don't I just help you yeet Cuth there and ease the Cobalt out of that trio?

 

Why? Back this up, man.

Like, I am town, I'm trying to work with you here because there's a chance you're town, but you're not helping me at all. Which would fit with you being town, tbh, what with Wisp and Vaimes self voting, and Jari defending Cuth and Tom voting Jari and Waco not showing up.

 

Because we know you'd do that as scum. And it was too late, we already had weird interactions from both Cuth and Amy pointing to you (Cuth with the townreading you when he should have been scumreading you thing, Amy with her changing her Wisp read in a way that conviently protected you.)

And more importantly, in that moment, (and I think this is something Amy gets) you mimicking your town meta of getting pocketed by wolves makes us doubt you could be mafia while also helping your team survive. By reaching out to Amy as much as you did, you don't look aligned with her when she flips, which is why she would push for you to do it. Like, I'm looking at that eod2 and thinking if I was a wolf in Amy's position with Cuth and Cobalt, this is what I would want my team to do.

 

Cobalt, aren't I much more likely to get pissed off and decide to get rid of tom as a town genuinely trying to solve and finding him in my way, protecting my scumreads than I am as a wolf where he's genuinely helping my wincon. Why would I get upset with him for real as a wolf? Like, I'd maybe fake if I thought it'd help me, but I wouldn't be really mad.

 

I don't get how town!you wouldn't think I was town when you said you were in the same place as me emotionally wrt to Tom.

And before Dels asks, no I'm not townreading Cobalt for being in the same place as me because I don't know that he was. He said he was, but it was follow up quoting of my stuff, and frankly scum!Cobalt apparently can genuinely get mad at town for being obnoxious, so it wouldn't be clearing anyway.

 

I think those things you listed are a prime reason why we are where we are.

A lot of villagers were 120% unhelpful this game.

I'll be straight with you, if you're town, the only way I'm not voting you is if you convince me on Dels which will be difficult as hell. Idk what to tell you. This game is fucked.

 

I'm working on it.

I'm just ... frustrated. I'm trying not to let this game get to me anymore. I feel like if Von takes me seriously, if Tom doesn't troll, if Waco shows up, if fucking all of you just yeet Cuth, this game gets so, so easy, and instead it all just fell apart. Like, I was literally locked in on Amy/Cuth/Cobalt with a side of Dels Day 2, I fucking hate this.

 

And if we yeet Waco over Rubicon. That would have saved this too.

 

I am a little bit raw that Waco didn't show back up.

 

Okay, I'm basically already getting tired. Since no one wants to rush anyway, I'm probably going to take a bit of time now to just look back at stuff, and not post anything substantial tonight. Don't ask me how I went from not being able to sleep, to getting tired at 7pm, but it's better than the alternative. Keep in mind this does mean I'm not staying up to deadline tomorrow either, so regardless of what either of you do, I'm likely to place my vote by around 24 hours from now at the latest, and if that were a successful cross-vote it means I wouldn't be around to answer any questions for the decider afterwards.

Ping me if you want a quick reply from me on anything.

 

@Dels Give me one substantial, solid reason that I should not let the stress of F3 sway me away from my townread on you.

 

I'm not sure I can answer that. I don't think I can give any like "well here's the one thing that proves I am town" and I don't like towncasing myself. I would say, basically the same reason I have for why I shouldn't doubt you, which is that we've been on the same wavelength, and it happened naturally. You pinged me to defend you EoD2, even when I had been voting you half the day and hadn't really stated a strong townread. I felt like even when I was voting you, you had a feeling I didn't really buy it. You seemed to know we were viewing the game similarly. I guess if I'm being, like, "sentimental", I would say... I don't think I could have made you feel that way if I was a wolf who had some agenda with you. You would have sensed something more overt from me.

Strike this post from history if Cobalt is a wolf. lol. I'll edit some casual speak into it post-game so that DLP mods delete it.

 

And I am doubting you, despite that. Maybe just because I was in thread with Fonti all day and you showed up after I left. I haven't read everything you posted this afternoon, but, I will say, if you're town, I need you to tell me why Fonti is bullshitting me and why I'd be dumb if I fell for what she's doing just because it's a lot of words, or because she's interpreting the dead wolves interactions to clear herself when it's not clearing, or etc etc. Like, I can't... operate on my own. I literally come to decisions by bouncing ideas off people and hearing what others think. I'm a self-proclaimed sheep. It's why I chatted with Fonti all day and am still trying to work together with the dead townies. I want to see you as town because that's how I felt yesterday and overnight and drift back to when I look at your posts now, so, just, as much as you can, let me know your thoughts on the conversations Fonti and I had this morning, once you are done posting your defense.

 

Some quick responses: (note from the future: i fucking lied again they're not quick)

3980 This helps. This worldview just resonates with me. It's also a helpful reminder that despite Fonti saying "i'm out of my wolfrange" "i couldn't do this", I'm pretty sure you're not lying that she... can. I don't think you're lying about seeing it before.

3982 Yes, these are the exact reasons that I (and Fonti) said you were town yesterday. If you're a wolf, you were suicidal and never took a single attempt to look better. If you're a wolf, you somehow ended up in a final 3 with the exact, only two people in the playerlist who would ever look at that and say "Yeah, twtbaw" instead of "Cobalt's gotta die". Literally the only two, because every single other townie who has died wanted you as a yeet, unless I'm forgetting someone. And even Fonti changed that view overnight. And it's not like you specifically manufactured the scenario to get us to the end with you. You're not the reason Fonti and I are the ones left with you. You're not the reason the yeets were Vaimes/Waco. You were part of it, sure, and you did insist they both get pushed through, but the town collectively did it. One could say you chose the nightkills but the nightkills were pretty set because other people were just 100% clear.

(I'm seeing Fonti's post where she responds to this now, and it's. Mrph. Because she agreed with these reasons yesterday, and is now trying to say they're not clearing. Her theory that it's because of Amy giving you advice... I don't even get? Whether you did it on your own or not, those things did not help your position, or the position of the scumteam if its you/Amy/Cuth)

To Fonti (3983): I think we agreed that we weren't sure what Gemma thought about you in the end. She ended the Vaimes day feeling you were in her next 2 yeets and no longer a Legacy Never Yeet. That changed on the Waco day, but when I asked her if you were never scum she said that wasn't it, she just preferred Waco/Cobalt. I'm not sure what the "I'll eat a hat" meant. But I don't think you can use Gemma as a proof you being town, you even said she may have had emotionally compromised reasons to shy away from the read.

3984 I hadn't read this yet when I gave you the answer above. (You'll just have to believe me =P) I feel annoyed because if I say "This post is how I feel as well" to you, now it's like, tainted by seeming like a pocket (which is exactly Fonti's hope if she's a wolf), but I just literally feel the same way about everything you say here. Particularly, echoing thoughts does not a villager make, but you didn't echo my thoughts, you often had them before I had them, or before I stated I had them. My worldview of the game came because of your posts, at least it did for tom, who I was brushing aside until you posted about him. I think we had thoughts on fonti at the same time -ish, at least I recall posting my thoughts on her day 2 without seeing your own. And I think all of this applies the other way around as well. And if that gets tainted because of paranoia (caused by Fonti or not) then just. Oof. (And in case you can't tell, as I write this, I'm back to not having those doubts anymore)

I forgot about the VT claim too. Lol.

Fonti's 3987 "he pushed you towards yeeting Jari and tom." I did not. If anything, Cobalt pushed me. He brought up tom first, and from then on we just kind of both had the read starting day 2. I wasn't scumreading Jari at all day 2 and only settled in to it via PoE. My vote on Jari was also a result of me feeling like Cobalt/Waco were right about tom being scum, and therefore aligning myself with them.

I like your argument that Fonti's plays can make sense if they're "what she needed to do to keep Reg townreading her". I can see that as being her win condition, basically. If Reg had gone to his death with Fonti as a legacy never yeet, I would not be considering voting her today. I would literally be locked on you. Ask me later to check if the days he did end with Fonti as a legacy never yeet are the nights he got shot at.

3997 I do not think there is a lot of merit to discussing what wolves would or would not do on days the yeet is locked. This happened on day 3, day 4, and (a very short) day 5. It was always Cuth day 3. It was always tom day 4, until it wasn't. (But he reached maj-1) As a wolf there, neither of you would have to care too much about what you pushed, because you (fonti) were still saying you wanted it to be tom the whole time anyway. I will take a look at the EoD though to see how it actually changed and if you made that happen.

Ending page 80 here.

 

Yeah, so.

When I said earlier that Fonti posted a lot of points in the ISO but that most of them were a 3 or 4 on the 1-10 scale, Cobalt is the opposite.

Cobalt hasn't posted a barrage of things, but each post he made, particularly the ones I linked above, are like, a 7 or an 8.

He's sticking to the things that matter most. (And it's good that he can pinpoint what those things are without couching them in anything else)

When I was reading Fonti's posts, I felt on an intellectual level that she was towny. I was like "Well, these are good posts, well-reasoned, lots of thought shown, I suppose I have no choice but to agree, logically, that she is town"

But Cobalt's posts are just. Just townie. On a gut level. I just read these and think "Yup. Yes. This is just town"

And in that context, Fonti's cases on Cobalt start to feel, to borrow Cobalt's metaphor, like putting a square peg in a round hole. When she tries to argue against Cobalt's arguments here when I feel his arguments are good, it feels like she just... is doing that because she has to.

And if Fonti is scum she's in an impossible position because the things she has to fight against from him seem to be the exact things she townread him for yesterday. And again, if she's scum, she can't not do that, because Cobalt is still townreading me and so townreading him and voting me will not get her anywhere! And it just. Feels like that's what's happening here. Fonti's case on Cobalt was good at, like, taking all his posts and explaining why they were scummy, fluffy, too good to come from town!balt. But anyone can paint anyone as scum in a big ISO like that, looking at all their posts.

And when I talk about how Cobalt and I sync'd (and he says it about me), this isn't just some emotional "oh but i want him to be town" shit. It's like. That happened. For a reason. It's not just a feelings thing, it's literally viewing the game the same way and having the same reads and feeling like it was mutual. That's a good reason to townread someone! It's probably a better reason than having an overly intellectual case.

So. Yeah. Ignore the doubts above, I hadn't read your posts yet. I'm... back to where I was. I'm inclined to believe that Fonti's the more likely scum. But she did bring up lots of points that seemed good to me, so do try and address those if you can. I haven't gotten any of the reading done that I wanted but I am going to look into them as well.

 

I mean. I guess I still have doubts, but. Less now. I don't know. I'm rambly. I think it's ultimately going to come down to analyzing these points Fonti has for being town and seeing if they hold up or not. So I need to... do that.

 

So basically what you're saying is, as scum there, Cobalt was already so screwed that there was no point in trying to look better, so might as well just hard defend.

I think, at best, it just makes it a wash, which I guess is what you're arguing for.

The level of self-awareness you're saying he'd have, combined with the coaching from Amy just... feels hard to buy into for me. I can see a world where Amy encouraged him to look not-alligned with her, I suppose. But to hope people would remember that it's his meta. When even if that happened, even if you defended him for it, would that even be enough for people to listen? (The answer seems to be... yes and no, yes because no day has ever really come close to being a Cobalt yeet since then, but no because everyone wanted him dead anyway)

 

And apparently I was right there saying "Yeah Fonti might just be right and we'll win because it's DLP"

If we're town and lose this, rip. It'll be my fault if we do though.

 

anyway, fonti responded to a lot of the things i responded to above, i have seen those. i'm too tired to want to respond further now. if any of the points important enough to continue conversation, lmk and we can talk more about them tomorrow.

 

Yeah, I'm out. When I wake up tomorrow I'm going to re-read all the stuff I wanted to, and share the fonti posts I had bookmarked. Because if I get into the present page I just get caught up in responding to everything.