@Cobalt ctrl f "confession" in my wall, and read the part just below it, please.

 

Okay, I am only just starting to read what happened last night but can I just say it is incredibly infuriating to basically be put in the role of having to make the decision (which you have both done by stating intents to vote each other, at various points) and then when I actually state my opinion of who I am leaning towards, that person freaks out and tells me I'm awful for it and etc and etc (even though I have responded to every single point and tried to stay as open-minded as possible and been as transparent as I can possibly be about what I am thinking), and I guarantee you if I changed my mind and said "I'm actually leaning the other way" the other person would probably say the same thing

It's a fucking awful position to be in.

I've often used the metaphor before that going after a mafia is like having to do an exorcism on someone who is possessed and when you go to do it they scream and cry "No! Stop! You're hurting me! I swear the ghost is gone, it's not inside me anymore, please!!!!" but it's still just the ghost saying that and you have to find a way to ignore it all.

And it's actually not true that Cobalt would say the same thing if I said I was leaning him, he might just be like "Yeah I understand it, Fonti's played a good wolf game and I've looked awful" but that wouldn't mean he's the correct vote, even if it'd make him the easier one

I've already basically said this, whatever

 

Also I hope I only have to say this once but please do not read me based on a trophy. I'm just a person. I'm just a normal person. The situation that happened years ago that led to that happening has nothing to do with who I am, today, in this game.

 

Okay, here is one of my issues with you today, fonti. You say things like this. "I had them early". Them. But it's not a "them", Cobalt and I can't both be scum. I feel like you are making statements that can blanket cover both of us, i.e. one of us is the townie who has been "pocketed", but when you can't specify which one it is, it makes it feel like you're hoping the paranoia comes in from either of us, rather than that you have a specific idea. I get that you're talking to people as if they are town so when you talk to Cobalt you tell him I pocketed him, and when you talk to me, you tell me he pocketed me. That's valid I guess if you're town, but it makes it feel like you don't care which one of us realizes it, as long as one of us does.

 

And before I go any further now I haven't read the day 2 thing yet, I'm just responding to what I see. I promise you I'm reading it, I'm still not snapvoting, I'm still not locked. It's just very frustrating because it feels like things would be nicer if I just, like, didn't say what I was feeling. But I have to say what I'm feeling, it's the only way I can get people to respond and work with me.

 

I also want to be clear: When I state a stance I have, even if I state it very matter-of-factly without any "but this is just a thought, i'm open to reconsidering" or w/e, I still want responses. I want you to tell me why it's wrong. You don't need to rage and stop breathing. You can just take it as me making a point and hoping you counter it.

 

I'm actually going to stop responding as I read, will save it until I've read everything. Fonti, you don't need to respond to me right now. What I need is to feel like I have the time to thoroughly read everything you've posted and cross-reference it with past days, and that won't happen if we get into an argument here or if I feel I have to respond to everything, so I'm making myself stop.

 

Okay. Caught up, will quote things and respond. Not responding to a lot of Fonti's big posts explaining why she's town, saving those for after re-read.

 

I will say that if Cobalt is wolf, him constantly asking Fonti to "show me why Dels is scum" would be a good tactic. Because Fonti (at least until late last night) was townreading me, so this makes him look like he's having a "good" thought process, but he knows Fonti won't give him what he wants because she literally doesn't believe it and has only been towncasing me. Which would make her look worse to me, like "Well Cobalt is trying to look reasonable, but Fonti isn't able to answer him!" (Spoilers: She does answer, anyway)

 

Okay, this is where I started getting upset.

So, I hate talking about myself, but I have no choice here. First of all, I staunchly refute the idea that I'm a fantastic town player. I refute it to the strongest degree. I had what were perceived as some good town games in Champs a few years ago, but historically, my town games are a fucking mess. Everyone hates me. People think I'm shit. I have a reputation for being an idiot, a tunneler, and easily pocketed. Half the people who play with me seem to come out of it saying they never want to play with me again. I never get nightkilled early, I am always left alive because my reads are often wrong. My strengths as a townie have absolutely nothing to do with having correct reads, most of the time.

But that brings us to "Why is he here with us, Cobalt?" This seems to be directly implying that I should have been nightkilled, whether for being a strong townie, or because I should have been right about things and then nightkilled. Like I said, that doesn't happen in any of my town games (I lived to like day 6 in those champs games btw), and secondly: The nightkills have been: 0-poster > Reg > Reg > JoaT > JoaT > Reg (now 100% cleared) > Gemma (basically 100% clear). I was never going to be a nightkill. Neither were you or Cobalt. The only place where scum had control over the game path starting a few days ago, was via the yeets, not via the nightkills. And we all yeeted the same people starting day 3.

And then there's this:

This is low, Fonti. I was asleep. I went to sleep 6 hours before that wagon started. I was not there. My vote was on tom. Granted, that's a townie too. I will also grant that I did name Rubi as a suspect and probably would have voted Rubi over Waco once the switch happened. I don't know though, I don't know if I would have gone through with a Rubi yet. But still, how am I supposed to see you as town when you've just tried to blame me for a wagon that started 6 hours after I left the thread? It feels like you're throwing anything that could stick. You clearly didn't think much about this sentence or you'd have remembered I wasn't there.

And yeah, as for the rest, yeah, I was wrong. A lot. Never denied it, never will. Meh, I don't have anything else to say about that. It's a fact that in this final 3, all of us were wrong about everything starting day 4, but that you, Fonti, were right about things on days 1, 2, and 3 when neither of us were. You literally know why I wanted to yeet Waco and Vaimes, because you did too, we had all the same reasons, whether you are town who had them or wolf who clearly understood them enough to fake them. I don't see why I have no right to be bad in those cases, but you do. You're a better player than me.

And yes, I too was sleep deprived. Same. I touched on this already, so no further comment.

 

I mean, this is what it comes down to. If Fonti's a wolf, it's exactly what I said at the start of the day and again last night, which is that she knew she couldn't push me (because you were townreading me, rip if that's not true anymore) and therefore had to start casing you, even though you are town and it's hard to make it fit and it's hard for her to 180.

This is, to me, still the strongest piece of evidence against her.

 

This post slightly bothers me because it feels like so many of your points from your ISOs (at least day 1, i've only seen a bit of day 2) were like "Two scum wouldn't both do the same thing" or "scum wouldn't do this very blatant thing", but then sometimes you come across one and to make it fit your narrative, you say "well actually they would do this blatant thing <because amy wanted to> or <because etc>"

In this case you haven't even really talked about why two scum would or would not both do the same thing, other than just "they were both pocketing you". But where does this fit on your scale of too overt or not or etc?

 

I'll also say that if I said that, it was at a time when wagons were Cuth/Cobalt, wasn't it? So if I'm wolf, I'd be saying I'd yeet my buddy over a townie. Is that worth it just for a pocket that I'd theoretically already have anyway...? I'd say this also messes with if you have a theory I was trying to hard save Cuth, because the wagons could've easily gone Cuth/Cobalt after that and then I would've been committed and couldn't reserve. I'm not really saying what I would or wouldn't do, 'cause I have no clue, but I think this proves my mentality wasn't "save Cuth at all costs" either way.

 

Yeah, so, Cobalt,

In these posts: 4053 4063 4066 4070 4079

You went through the same exact process I went through after talking with Fonti yesterday morning

"I swear I'm reading your posts and considering" "I feel guilty because you're putting in so much effort" "I need to just go back and re-read because you've brought up good points" "Yeah, Cuth did treat Fonti with a lot of care" "You were pushing Amy early, and that matters" "I guess I'm starting to be swayed"

I basically said all those same things yesterday, sometimes even in the same words.

The good news is, if you're town, it's just another instance where we had the same thoughts and I don't think you had them here to sway me (especially because saying you suspect me would be a really bad way to sway me)

The bad news is, if you're town, it means we both had the same thoughts... about trusting Fonti and therefore turning on each other.

This isn't me trying to make a point or be like "see i'm town because i felt the same ^_^", I'm just pointing out the dynamic here.

If Fonti is a wolf and she convinces both of us, then maybe we mutually vote each other and if it's wrong then we both take the blame. Shrug. It's an awful situation to be in.

 

The other dynamic I'm noticing is that people basically townread the person they're in the thread with.

I came in to the day saying I was planning to vote Fonti, she spends 6 hours with me, I start doubting. She's reading me as town at the time.

I return later, I read all of Cobalt's posts and interact with him, I go back to thinking Cobalt is town.

Fonti and Cobalt talk overnight, they come out of it saying they think each other are town.

This is probably entirely natural, especially because we all agree that when you're talking to someone, you have to talk to them as if they're town and you're trying to get there. And it's hard to tell someone to their face they are a wolf when they fight back against you.

I don't have any comment about what this dynamic means, I'm just noting I've noticed it, particularly in myself.

 

I also feel like everyone has basically come to all the same view of the situation.

Most of my biggest points against Fonti, she has said "yeah I was aware of that and I get it"

Cobalt and I obviously both get why our past days look bad.

Everyone seems to understand the dynamic of Cobalt and I and are considering if there could be a pocket. (This isn't really true, if Cobalt's a wolf I don't think he "pocketed" me, I just... liked his reads and townread him and so he worked with me, I don't think he set out to do anything specific with me)

Cobalt and I have both acknowledged the same reasons for Fonti being town (due to cuth/amy treatment stuff)

etc

This is a final 3 of three people who were previously all townreading each other and (in a lot of cases) were viewing the game in a similar way, which makes it hard for anyone to really disagree with anything too strongly, the only major disagreement being Cobalt thinking I'm town, and Fonti, well, agreeing at the time but still trying to convince him otherwise. That's changed now I guess.

This is part of me why I don't get why Fonti is like "Dels should know I'm town" when she townread Cobalt for the same reasons as me all game and is seemingly back to feeling that way today, so she should understand. Hopefully she does now.

 

The only other thing I'll say is that if people think I might be scum, I welcome any all questions and I'll try to defend myself best I can. I'm not really sure how to do that though so all I can say is I'm town and that I hope things work out. I'm probably not going to give you any "if i wasn't scum i wouldn't have done X, my meta is Y" stuff because I really don't like it. I also haven't really been a focus until now, if my operating as if I was going to be the deciding vote and therefore considering both options has sketched anyone out then I apologize but that's the reason for it.

 

But also, even if I felt I'd be in the "decider" role, I am actually likely to be the first voter, because I'm voting this afternoon and I'm getting the sense neither of you plan to vote before that. So if you feel I am keeping options open or hoping for a cross-vote, it's likely not going to be the case, and I'm not operating as if it is. I'm operating as if I have to make a decision in. Like. 6-7 hours. Hopefully not all of which will be spent on the game.

I don't know how final 3 voting works or how people are supposed to choose who votes first but I don't really care much about it, I'm going to make a choice and if that choice is wrong then I deserve the loss regardless of if I should have let votes happen in a different order or w/e.

 

Anyway, last thing to respond to, Fonti's 4093 and 4095

This is quite frankly, karma, because you're right it's an unfair case to make against me because all the things you mentioned are just how I have played as town. But I made a similarly unfair case against you.

Yes, if I'm a wolf then my plan here would theoretically be to just pocket Cobalt and vote you and that's that. I... cannot offer any evidence that that's not the case, other than what I said earlier which is that I think what happened between Cobalt and I was mutual and that if I was trying to "pocket" him I wouldn't have literally voted him on day 2 for half the day. I'd also argue that when you started the day with a massive ISO calling Cobalt scum, I could have just... agreed with you. But that gets wifom-y.

That said, "he knows I feel like I need to yeet Cobalt to be faithful to the town who have died." No? You stated yesterday that you townread Cobalt strongly and that I was your next most likely scum, didn't you? I wouldn't have thought you'd think that.

I'd also, again, disagree I've "used" Cobalt in any way. The times when I was in PoE, Cobalt townreading me didn't help me at all. And the times I wasn't, I... wasn't. The votes on Vaimes and Waco (and the strong push on tom) were a concensus town thing and it's not like I led them, and I certainly didn't influence Cobalt into doing those, he did that on his own? I don't know, I just don't know what to say about this because I'm not a wolf and I didn't have any of these thought processes or plans so I don't know what I would've done. But you can't take my word for that.

And yeah, kinda lame of you to try to convince me Cobalt is wolf and when I say "Okay I'm having doubts" to say "well that's exactly what you'd do as wolf!". I'm pretty sure you'd be saying if it was wolfy of me if I never showed any doubts either, you'd say "why is he so certain, why isn't he swayed by my case" I think you know this though.

I will also say that if Cobalt is town and I vote correctly here, I haven't had a terrible game. Like I said, my town games are awful and not defined by being correct very much, but my biggest strength is my ability to townread people that are otherwise "easy yeets", and my willingness to actually vote for the "good" wolf that everyone else would be like "nah we can't" about, so in that case, I'd have helped the town with the exact thing I'm good at helping towns with. But that's get back into biases and why I don't want to default to that just because it'd make me feel I played well. The best way to play well is to make the correct vote.

Also I've never been in a final 3 because I barely play games. I've been in final 5 lilos as wolf or as town multiple times, but not 3. Again, nope, not "supposed to be right", not "never makes it this far", i make it to day 6 constantly. I don't know how to state this any more bluntly but if you're town, throw this preconception out.

I can't speak for why I was fooled by Amy but I will say she played in exactly the way I expected her to play as town. This was due to a variety of interactions I've had with her both in-game and out-of-game over the past year. I'd say that it's more likely the way she was playing would fool someone who knows her, compared to someone who doesn't. She was doing all the things I expected her to do as town. I can go into this more if you want but it doesn't feel like it'll help. Ultimately I defended the wolf and if I die for it that's only fair. I will also say I didn't really agree with the Jari "case so much as it was just PoE for me and townreading Cuth. Uh, yup, I townread Cuth, again, nothing I can say there.

I think I've responded to everything and luckily no one else is here, so I'm going to go do some digging and when I come back I'll likely state my decision for who I want to vote this afternoon.

 

Random question, Fonti, from your day 2 ISO you said this:

"Actually, Waco probably doesn't shoot Akina, since he invited them."

But you didn't bring it up again yesterday. Did you forget, or just not think it was strong after all?