Decent episode, but if I hadnt read the books I’d be left wondering why the hell this random ogier is suddenly coming along.

 

As usual, a mess of an episode that really has no idea what it wants to convey to the audience.

And them mentioning Gitara's prophecy was fucking hilarious, because I found this pic recently that someone made into a meme:



Biggest complaint would be the continued shitting on characterizations.

Why couldn't they just stick to the books? It worked perfectly. Why the need to add unnecessary shit?

 

Why adapt the books when you can do slash fic with plots, characterization, and character motivations that make no sense?

 

Ugh... I did like this, but I think that it'll play a lot better when the entire series has been released. As is, it's a bit of a filler episode in some ways, and I think that more time should have been spent with the Two Rivers' five. I want more Rand God damn it!
Still, I think that the episode really redeemed itself in the last 10 or so minutes, and that the plot picked itself up again.

 

I started out liking this series, but after that last two episodes I hate hate hate it.

They've butchered the book beyond recognition, it's disgusting.

 

Bold of you to think this won't be shitcanned well before then.

 

I mean series/season one, but sure look.

 

There are already 53 Wheel of Time TV show fics out on AO3 btw... Nothing worth reading yet as far as I can see, but it's worth keeping an eye on.

 

The last two episodes have really harmed my interest as well.

Rafe basically decided to writing a Lesbian fanfic using these characters. The decision to write the series as from Moraine's perspective could've been good...but ultimately they haven't spent enough time with Mat/Rand/Perrin.

I'll give the show until season two to see if they course correct, but if season two is just more of the same I'll probably drop it as well.

 

Yeah basically this, I did enjoy the first few episodes and would have given them a light 7, definitely better than Witcher. But I have now read the first book and am halfway through the second.

And I can say I absolutely hate some of these changes, they are utterly baffling. They waste so much time on side characters and other filler stuff. While barely focusing on the Protagonist, Mat, and Perrin just for some cheap mystery of who the Dragon reborn is.

I honestly have no faith that they will not change major other aspects of the books just for some cheap woke points, which is kind of laughable the Wheel of Time has more than enough strong female characters there is no need to prop characters like Egwene up at the expense of others.

I did enjoy this at first but reading the books I now just feel disappointed. I am not against changes, I thought the backstory of Mat was good and I don't mind Lan being more emotive but some of these changes are just stupid.

They don't have to increase the violence to show that this is an adult story or suck out all the joy of the adventure and make everything darker.

I will continue to watch this at least for a time and hope they will course correct but I doubt this. Also pretty sure that I will hate this more and more the farther I get into the books but let's just see.

 

Did anyone see the leaks for episode 8?

To avoid spoiling people too much:

Spoiler

They apparently just completely stole Tarwin's Gap scene from Rand and used it for Egwene and Nynaeve. Or they added in a brand new battle into the show to showcase the two using vast amounts of the One Power.

Two .wembs of said leaks:

Spoiler

https://webmshare.com/8KPvL

https://webmshare.com/nQOjr

 

Uh...it's possible but that's reading a lot into it.

Honestly looking more like

Spoiler

Rand is linking with Egwene/Nynaeve. You can see a male in the center on that second. Also on some of the other gifs he's doing more. Sure, it's having Rand tap into Egwene/Nynaeve a bit but I like it as a narrative choice to fit with the theme of working together.

 

You liking it does not make it not shit.

 

The whole theme of WoT was that men and women need each other and that promoting one gender at the expense of the other is bad regardless of which one holds power.

On a consolidated timeline, leaning into that makes sense narratively.

 

Correct me if I'm wrong, but this was canon? They certainly never explicitly showed anything, or went into this much detail, but it is hinted at (and confirmed rather graphically by Robert Jordan) that Siuan and Moiraine were "pillow friends" pre the major events of the books.

Expanding on what's there rather than just making shit up (Stepin nonsense, giving Rand's scenes to others) is what they should be doing.

 

I'm not denying Moraine or Siuan being a thing in New Spring. They were pillow friends. My fanfiction reference is more them still being lovers in the show.

Moraine had moved on by the point the books start.

 

Pillow friends in the books were treated as a game/past-time for novices and some accepted. The aes sedai expected that shit to stop when they rose to the shawl.

 

I'm not sure how Rafe is doing that by going 100% women uber alles.

The shit he's doing makes movie!Hermione's theft of Ron and Harry's book lines and moments look like a kid swiping a piece of penny candy, by comparison.

What he's doing isn't adaptation, it's corruption. He's an activist who has proudly admitted he's trying to inject a bunch of modern feminism into the story. Why would you inject ANY kind of modern ideals and ideologies into a fantasy world set in a pre-renaissance (or at least pre-industrial, with no guns) culture? It's obvious he has zero respect for the material and its fans. Like any other activist, he never had any intentions of remaining true to the books, this is just a vehicle for whatever propaganda he wants to push.

Girls start fairly young at the White Tower, usually around puberty. They leave their sheltered, pre-industrial, lives with their families, and enter a strict and demanding life in an unfamiliar environment, almost exclusively populated by females, where they don't know anyone, and where there is a lot of political maneuvering with people trying to snatch all the power and influence they can, among several highly contentious factions (some of the Ajahs really hate each other's guts).

Basically, most pillow friends are lonely tweens/teens playing a little slap and tickle slumber party experimentation with whichever friend they latch onto for support. The girls involved are usually heterosexual, and it usually ends well before they finish their learning and leave the Tower (most are expected to knock that stuff off by the time they earn the Shawl, if not by the time they reach Accepted status). Romantic feelings don't usually enter into it, and it's rare that it turns into anything like a long term lesbian relationship.

Outside the Tower, some (but not many!) just find it easier to fool around with one of their fellow Aes Sedai than to find a man, simply because of what they are and what they have to do. Dating a regular man, as an Aes Sedai, is like trying to find a man who will put up with her basically being a powerful super hero, with her own personal, male, super soldier hanging around her 24/7, while she has a job that tends to preclude settling down in one spot, to say nothing of having and raising children or the man having the chance to earn anything more than whatever allowance the Tower is sending her for her job, unless he figures out how to earn money while traveling on horseback. On top of that, the Aes Sedai has to live with the knowledge that she'll look young for centuries, while any man she marries will grow old and die in less than one.
Not Easy.

The Green Ajah tend to shortcut the dating problem (if not the child problem) by fucking their warders.

Someone in the books saying, "I remember you were pillow friends with so and so." is not far off from Snape referring to Ron and Harry as "the dream team." Among the nasty, back-biting, Aes Sedai, that kind of a comment is usually just a way of saying, "I'm decades older than you and thus more learned and important, and I remember you used to run around getting into trouble with so and so, and got your backsides birched for stealing cookies from the kitchen when you were mere Novices. Now, be embarrassed and recognize my superiority." whether the girls actually fooled around much or not.

Moiraine and Siuan may have done some fooling around as Novices in the tower but, more importantly, they were friends who became even more closely allied when they witnessed Gitara giving her Foretelling, and realized that if the world was to be saved, they would have to save The Dragon from their own sisters in the Tower. That world-shaking secret, that world-saving mission, bound them more tightly as allies than any transient teenage explorations.

Spoiler

As adults, Siuan falls head over heels for a man, and Moiraine smiles fondly when she mentions to Elayne that she probably knows the face of the man she's going to marry better than Elayne does.

They certainly didn't have a decades-long love affair.

None of that shit is important, according to the man whose qualifications are 'contestant on Survivor,' what's important is that he says they're fucking right now. Who needs characterization and plot elements where the world hangs in the balance, when you can reduce two strong-willed, powerful, female characters to a pair of caricatures, grinding on each other?

Edit: Capital S!

 

I've come to realise that reading this thread is a waste of my time.

 

I'm sorry but this is complete bullshit.

This isn't pre-industrial earth. This is a world vastly different than our own where women are more powerful than men. Trying to place our past beliefs onto it is bullshit. In a world where women would hold this kind of power, especially when you have groups of women who loath men, you would likely see acceptance of homosexual relationships. After all, even in our own pre-industrial world we had many societies allow homosexual relationships within the ruling gender (the Greeks, vast portions of the middle east, etc).

This is a world where women can have multiple men and be accepted (green ajah). A world where women can have multiple lovers over the years (various queens) or sister wives (Aiel). I cannot see why homosexual relationships or other 'woke' beliefs would not be accepted. The fact that Jordan even wrote about pillow friends, in the 90s is a good indicator that he had no problems with it and likely the world didn't either.

One of the biggest issues I have with the series (and I've been re-reading it) is that this 'feminist' world feels like it was written by a man in almost every way. It doesn't feel entirely real, because the women don't make sense or act as they should when in these powerful positions (especially when it comes to men).

So far in the show, the world has felt more real when it comes to women in power and how they are acting. I sincerely enjoyed how cold Siuan Sanche was when it came to sacrificing four of the five just to stop the evil one, and the shady back dealings of the politics in the tower. It feels real.

Now, I do agree that some of these choices are a little to in your face, and I do wish they let the audience think for themselves, but in terms of character relationships and character races... I don't give a flying fuck.

As long as they are a good actor, why the hell does their race matter? That's not being woke.

And compared Jordan is absolute garbage at writing romance, why does it matter if secondary characters have different partners? I sure would have preferred this romance to this random 'I look at you and suddenly I am in love', business he loves to do in the books.

Yes, this series is woke, but it's a world that would be considered woke. This is a world that many conservatives would say liberals and feminists are trying to make in our own world by putting down men, removing gender norms and allowing women to rule over men.

So please, don't compare a fantasy world vastly different from our own to our pre-industrial western society.