I really should get around to watching this show, especially since unlike a lot of others here I am not the biggest fan of the novels and could therefore care less about how canon it actually is.

 

Stating here so Majube can go off on me for being "sexist"

One of the reasons I think for the differences between the show and the book is that Rafe is filming this show with the female gaze in mind as opposed to the male gaze (Clear distinction between GoTs and WoT). The book was distinctly written from a male perspective and focused on those events which empowered and strengthed the male protagonists. Female protagonists certainly had their time in the sun, but they were secondary to the primary.

Rafe has flipped this with the perspective of Moiraine and so the female gaze is more indicated. This is not a matter of the quality of the show but rather why there seems to be such a discrepancy in what is chosen to be focused upon.

 

Official stills and unofficial leaks are coming out from Episode 8. I may no longer demand praises for the show. I may in fact not like it, at all. I hope the leaks are false.

 

Oh?

 

If true…it’s bad and I’ll likely no longer be watching. It reveals Rafe understands the show in a way that is so fundamentally against my understanding of the story that it’s not even worth continuing.

Spoiler

Lady Amalisa links with Nynaeve and Egwene to do Tarwins Gap.

Fain stabs Loial with the dagger.

Moiraine is stilled.

And after the fight with Ishy, Rand heads into the blight telling Moiraine not to follow

 

Those are unofficial leaks, and probably misunderstood scenes. I sincerely hope they ain't so. Whatever, there's ten hours left then we can discuss what the fuck's going on.

 

If any of this is even vaguely correct...literally what the fuck.

 

Why are people acting surprised that they're changing things all over when that's what they've been doing for the past 7 episodes?

 

Because the changes in the past 7 episodes make sense if you’re telling it from the perspective of moraine.

and the expectation has been we would still get to see one of the most epic moments in the books on screen.

like every change so far has mostly need understandable even if I disagreed with the way it was done. This is a highlight though that fans have been waiting for for years and I assumed Rafe would’ve kept it.

to not though shows he’s truly on a fundamentally different understanding of the books.

 

How the fuck? No, I genuinely want to know how changing the perspective to Moiraine - even though we get plenty of scenes where she's not part of the cast - makes sense to you so much that Mat's character (not to mention his whole family life) is changed to be almost unrecognizable, that Machin Shin is no longer a soul-devouring entity, that suddenly One Power is needed to use the Waygates, even though, you know, they were made for the Ogier to travel between steddings, that Logain is no longer paraded in Caemlyn and only stilled at the Tower, but rather some bumfuck cave where he tried to get free and only got dazzled by Nynaeve's burst of light (that he only felt, even though they clearly showed it in the episode as if he was reacting to seeing it), or Lan being so un-Lan like and lacking any connection to any of them - barring Nynaeve of course, can't miss out on that.

There's ton of shit that was changed from the books and just saying that's due to a perspective shift makes no fucking sense.

 

The perspective shift isn't the only reason but it is the reason we don't see Caemlyn (in addition to budgeting). At the end of the day, most of these things aren't relevant to the core of the story. The overarching narrative. Yes, they're awesome moments in the books. The ogier aren't relevant to the core of the story.

It's better to think of Wheel of Time as a very long movie rather than as a tv show. And when you're making a movie, you have to pair down the story to it's primary story beats.

Much of what has been changed does not change the overarching narrative of the Wheel of Time. The lore is changed. Things are removed etc. And it sucks. I don't like it, but I understand the inherent logic behind those decisions.

Its the same logic that saw Bombadil cut from LOTR and the responses to that.

(If bombadil doesn't exist, how do the hobbits get their swords, if the hobbits don't get their swords, how does Pippin harm the witch king etc.) Key lore details were completely ignored. That happens in adaptations. And it works as long as you keep the core elements of the story intact.

Many of the changes so far didn't harm the core elements of Wheel of Time. Rand's story arc was still in tact. Perrin's story arc was still in tact if more blatant due to the changes. Egwene is still an ambitious and pretentious woman. Nynaeve is still a stubborn protector. Etc.
(And noted i hated the mat choices because it precisely went against the character arc).

Execution has varied but the changes made sense from an adaptation perspective and could be justified under that umbrella. It is still making an attempt to tell the story of the wheel of time in a television format.

The issue with the changes in the leak is that it pulls a Rian Johnson.

Spoiler

If you have any awareness of the fandom at all, you know that people are looking forward to Rand at Tarwin's gap. You know that is the one big finale thing people want to see is Rand going god mode.

If this leak is accurate...that doesn't happen. And so Rafe either A, isn't aware of the expectations. B, doesn't care about the expectations. C, thinks this choice is justifiable in the face of those expectations.. A I highly doubt he isn't aware of the expectations. He has a lore nerd in his ears. B, doesn't care about the expectations. I doubt this since viewers are how he makes money. Or C, he thinks it's justifiable even though people are expecting this. Which to me, indicates he fundamentally misunderstands the core of what people enjoy about the Wheel of Time.

The other elements were secondary things. Things that mattered but ultimately I could get over because they weren't at the forefront. To describe it another way. Many of the elements in the show so far have been things like Chewbacca hugging Rey instead of Leia. Or C3P0 having a red arm. Or poor execution of "The emperor has returned." Meh things.

This change? This change is like Luke being in exile and tossing the lightsaber over his shoulder. Luke hiding away and his big moment...is just an illusion.

That's why this change is going too far when other's weren't. The other changes could've been glossed over we had this big epic moment and character satisfaction for Rand. But if we don't...all of those other issues are no longer justifiable. They can longer be glossed over. They are what Rafe sees as the core of the show. Essentially, it's the straw that breaks the camel's back. Which means for me....I'm out.

 

From their instagram story today and...oof.

Yeah option C.



Tbf the show is doing really well in terms of numbers. but still oof.

 

The perspective shift, in and of itself, doesn't make sense.

It's fundamental to not fucking up the story. Some of the changes they've made will cause them to have to make more changes later (like explaining how certain people used the Ways without a channeler to get them in and out), in order for the show to maintain any kind of internal consistency.

I'm sorry, but this just sounds like a boatload of "cope." If you have to bend yourself into a pretzel, in order to try and justify what's been done to the plot, something is wrong.

If it's so crucial to pare down the story, why did they waste an episode on an OC who ultimately doesn't matter? Maybe so he could introduce certain ideas to the story and, as a bonus, sabotage Lan's character. Rafe isn't cutting and changing material for the sake of time and money, he's doing it because he doesn't give a shit about the story, he gives a shit about HIS message. If parts of the story have to be massaged, perverted, or just dropped in order for him to do what HE wants, then so be it. He's not there to honor Jordan's material (say what you will about his inability to say in a hundred words what he can say with ten thousand, without him Rafe wouldn't have this job, and the platform wouldn't have this show), he's not there to honor the material, and he's sure as shit not there to respect the fans, he's there to service himself and his crowd.

Baffling.
The lore of WoT is the story of WoT. Also, again, the ripples are already spreading from the changes he's making; they're only going to get bigger, uglier, and more destructive.

That, at least, makes a lick of sense.

I'm not so sure. You seem to be ascribing his meddling to the typical 'gotta break a few eggs' reality of changing a doorstop of a book into a screenplay, when the real answers might be in his twitter feed...

Grade A horse shit. Are you trying to convince Odran or yourself?

Ditching Bombadil didn't change the story of LOTR, it just... left him out. They didn't cut the Tom Bombadil scenes so they could have time to explore how Morgoth was actually a powerful hobbit who was just angry about being shunned for something, or that Celebrian ran away from Elrond to take part in an orgy and then had to go to Valinor because she was dying from a social disease.

They just found them.

Better ignored entirely than changed into a mockery.

Skipping lore would be, for example, leaving out any mentions of 'Lenn' and his 'daughter' 'Salya'. A mockery is... well, what they did to Mat.

This isn't an adaptation, it's a desecration. He's not keeping it intact.

They certainly harmed the general feel (and newbies' understanding) of the world of WoT. For me, that's enough on its own.

Is it? Pfft, wait for it...

Mother's milk in a cup, I beg to differ!

That she was even suspected to be a candidate for Dragon Reborn shows how much the story is being altered.

And can apparently AOE heal.

Neither Egwene, nor Nynaeve need any boosting of their canon power levels. They were already badass, but "Muh instant gratification?! Muh message?!"

Well, he's ultimately not that important to the books...
Right?

SMH

That, I believe, is naivete.
Rafe doesn't give a shit about the story, beyond how he can change it to tell HIS story. The story isn't important, the existing fans aren't important, future fans aren't important, Jordan isn't important; the only things important to him are getting paid, making a name for himself among his crowd by putting his stink all over this story, and getting his message out there... and, like any leftist, he will hollow out something a better person made in order to use it for his purposes. And when that thing dies, due to his baleful influence, he'll consider that the cost of doing HIS business, and move on to the next host.

A: Who's to say their lore nerd isn't a bigger fan of activism than the books, or that Rafe ultimately cares what they have to say?
B: I think it's safe to say that the only expectations he's worried about, are those of like-minded activists. He's undoubtedly already been paid for this season. Recent history has proven that you will be hired again, and again, and again, no matter how badly your product sells or how much you damage the fan base, as long as you're paying lip service to the right brand of politics, and are the right flavor of protected demographic: Witness the comics industry.
C: I highly doubt he cares about justifying himself to fans. If they cry too much about what he's doing, he'll call them chuds and bask in the praises of people who dig his new 'masculinity is toxic, but I'm fully in touch with my feelings Lan' and his hints that some dudes will be added to the

Spoiler

Rand/Min/Elayne/Aviendha

relationship.

To be clear, I don't give a shit if Rafe wants to sing his personal message from the top of Mount Everest through an alphorn. I don't care if he convinces Elon Musk to put a satellite in orbit that does nothing but broadcast whatever Rafe wants to say. That's his right, and I support the principles that defend that right.
What I take issue with is him using and butchering someone else's story in order to say it.

 

Appreciate the response @Warlocke

see my post above yours. Yeah I’m on board with you

he just said he doesn’t care about book fans so yeah I’m with ya.

I was trying to attribute some semblance of good will but he basically just shit on that.

 

This just sounds like more copium.

"If I close my eyes, and pinch my nose and ignore what my taste buds are telling me, this huge lug of vilest shit will be just like candy!"

The lore is the narrative. The two are intertwined in a way that the former holds up the latter. When you fuck with the lore, you fuck with the narrative.

Still intact? Is that what you call giving him a wife just so he could kill her off? Honestly, Perrin has been like an NPC so far. He doesn't look like he has any agency in the show. For all talk of being ta'veren and pulling others with the sheer gravity of Pattern-bending, he's just there... doing nothing. It doesn't help that the actor they cast for the role is really, really bad at his job.

Fuck no, it wasn't. Where is Rand in Caemlyn, climbing that wall, meeting Elayne, standing before Morgase and Elaida? Where is Rand spending time with Mat and Thom? That's the worst offense about the show. You're supposed to start to care for the characters, but in the shit shown so far, what the fuck is there to care for? They're just there, they're not even proper people.

Why does this surprise people though? Wasn't he the same person who said he was gonna turn random characters gay because of shit said on Twitter? I don't care about sending death threats myself, I figure just sending his own script back at him should count as a big enough offense.

 

I appreciate the effort, sincerely, and I imagine it was more for the sake of the fans than any desire to defend the show-runners. I just think the proverbial black pill will probably turn out to be the correct one to have swallowed in this situation.

I'd be delighted to be wrong, but I don't see them building a Taj Mahal on top of this swampland.

 

Watched it. Hated it. Spoilers below.

Spoiler

Rand was totally overshadowed. The Dragon doesn't seem like a big deal? That sucks. Doesn't matter if you're only a tv show fan, that sucks. Because what was the point of all that buildup? Just why? He vaporizes Ishamael sure big woop, but Tarwins Gap gets a lightning storm. Nynaeve and Egwene and Amalisa got a way bigger moment. In the Dragons special episode. And then he wonders off alone into the Blight...

Shienaran costumes are garbage. What the hell is that armour supposed to be? They had time to add the Seanchan? What the hell is their costuming? Like someone crossed 300 with a bit of Stargate?

Overall, worst episode of the season. No satisfactory arc resolution. No great moments. It doesn't work in context. Just absolute rubbish.

 

Fuck Rafe Judson.

 

Gonna come back in a year and it's gonna fucking be

Spoiler

Egwene battling Ishamael above Falme instead of Rand and Nynaeve somehow inventing traveling to show up from the White Tower to blow the Horn of Valere instead of Mat

isn't it.

 

I just feel empty inside right now.

I really enjoyed elements of this show. I loved the cast.

But....Rafe just fundamentally understands this show in a different way than I do. I wanted to liked this show. I really did. I loved seeing Beltine. I loved seeing Tigraine be BA.

I love all the actors.

But the story. It's just not the story I love. And I get sick thinking about it right now. I'll be fine and move on. Life doesn't revolve around fictional stories after all. But there is an element of grief at the moment.

*sigh*

Peace friends. I'm done. I can't put myself through this for another season. Y'all were right. This was a shit show.