In fairness the Vanity Fair for Jackson's LOTR was just as primped and puffed up. Wait for a proper trailer to make your firmer pre-show judgements.

Also, I don't expect it will "flop" even if it isn't great. Certainly not in a monetary sense. WoT didn't flop. It had huge viewership numbers, and the fanbase of LOTR is way way way bigger than the fanbase for WoT.

 

There will be no altering my opinion in this, trailer or no trailer.

LOTR fanbase is more interested in preserving Tolkien's work without seeing it perverted by others. I fully expect Amazon to make a complete mess. Yes, I don't expect it will flop entirely and cause Jeff Bezos to disembowel himself on live TV, but I expect to see this being lukewarmly received and then gradually shat on as more episodes get released.

 

22 'stars' is a lot, but they talk later about a slightly more limited number of plot lines:

This gives us a Lindon plot, an Eregion plot, a Khazad-dum plot and an Isildur plot. Of note is the fact that Isildur's plot must surely be placed a long time after Celebrimbor's plot, given the fact that Celebrimbor died 1500 years before Isildur was born. Durin IV is probably in a similar time to Isildur, as he was King of Durin's Folk during the Last Alliance. We have Numenor in there too, though no details on if this is simply part of Isildur's plotline.

Bronwyn and Arondir may be in Harad, though Tirharad would mean something like 'Southwatch', so there's the possibility they're somewhere else. Arondir's name seems to be curiously Sindarin in etymology (Noble Man), which seems strange for a Silvan Elf in a location so far removed from any Sindar influences as Harad.

So how they tie these locations and times together will be interesting, and possibly one of the make-or-break aspects of the production.

At the very least, the showrunners seem to be on a similar page to me when it comes to the expected tone. We'll see if this comes through in the final production, or if it's just lip-service.

We are getting Hobbits (Or, as they say, Harfoots) too, which would seem to give us yet another location in the Vales of the Anduin. This isn't a million miles away from Khazad-dum, but how they connect to the wider plot remains to be seen. If they were so secretive as to be unremarked in history, then I wonder what they will do in the overarching plot.

So much drivel has been spouted on twitter already about non white Elves/Dwarves/Hobbits that I can just see the dumpster fire about to go down around Disa and Arondir, but they both look okay to me. Arondir's short hair is strange as the norm among Elves is long hair, but his Silvan roots mean he can be markedly different in culture if needs be.

Disa seems to have some wispy beardyness going on. Not quite on the money when Tolkien describes Dwarven women:

but I'll give them points for effort at least. I do hope that Disa is a Princess from some clan of Dwarves not of Durin's Folk, though. If she's going to be Durin's sister, then I can already hear the complaints.

Galadriel as a warrior is pretty in line with Tolkien's later writings on her:

In total, I'd say that I'm less worried now about the show's treatment of canon, but more concerned about their plans for the story. It sounds like they want it to do a lot, and the show runners are not exactly a proven quantity. JJ Abrams being their good reference is a smidge concerning.

I'm still not sold on the series, not by a long shot. I'm keeping rock bottom expectations, but at the same time, I'm really enjoying seeing the conversation that has come out of this show, and am looking forward to more of it. It's already done a lot to reinvigorate discussion of Tolkien's work outside of the Hobbit, and LotR, and I'm definitely liking that.

 

Seems to me like they're going to squeeze the whole show into Isildur's lifetime given that "focus on a single point in time" bit. That said, they make no claims that they won't be employing flashbacks. I could easily see Celebrimbor, the forging of the rings, the first age stuff, the fall of gondolin, all occurring as extended flashback perspectives from elves in the "current" second age period.

 

If they have a reason behind the ethnic groups, like an envoy from another family or group of elves/dwarves it’s fine. If they just hand wave it away it breaks immersion.

As people said, there are logical canon ways to have other groups in Middle Earth.
That’s fine, in fact it shows a respect to both diversity and canon.

 

Most of the roles we see being filled by actors of color have built in room for diversity.

The dwarves had seven separate clans; the seven fathers of the dwarves awoke spread out all over the world, so no explanation needed for Disa. She can be from or have ancestry from some other clan.

The Silvan elves are comprised of the Nandor, Sindar, and the Avari. Arondir can be handwaved as an Avari, as the non-Eldar elves are rarely (never?) described physically.

Numenoreans could and should be diverse as they were a colonial empire and the people of Harad are canon dark. So no explanation needed for any human.

The Harfoots are canon darker than regular hobbits, so no explanation needed for hobbits of color.

So honestly, they can handwave pretty much any casting choice it if they want to, as long as they aren't contradicting Tolkien.

I am far far far more concerned about story than I am about whether they deep dive the lore onscreen to explain casting choices.

 

What I'm pretty sure is that they will "modernize" the characters and themes instead of keeping this larger than life quality that the movies managed to have because they will worry that people won't connect with them. These additional characters already point in that direction.

 

I would hope 9 writers, 3 Tolkien scholars, and script review from the Tolkien Estate might catch any 'Teen Wolf-ing' as it were. I would hope someone would be able to stand up and say, "wait a minute, Tolkien would never have written this character."

But who knows.

 

A little ago people were convinced they won't mix events and keep the timeline. I'm giving it 60% chance that they will add these elements to keep it "relevant".

 

Honestly, the initial conversations on this remind me of myself and others RE: Wheel of Time. We were so certain they would keep certain elements. Oh it's okay that they have diversity. Makes sense in a post apocalyptic world. etc.

You're assuming they are making this for the lore buffs and and fans of LOTR. No, they have carefully curated algorthms in place to build a story that will appeal to the widest variety of people. Lore and the elements that make LOTR LOTR will be sacrificed on the altar of algorthms.

 

I have no basis to say you're wrong other than the clear respect they've shown towards the Tolkien Estate and the deference they claim they have for Tolkien's writings. That said, this could all just be lip service.

I hope not though. We'll see.

 

Hey, for my part I am hyped, and optimistic that they'll do a good job.

 

Honestly, everything I've seen has pumped me up, even the things that are questionable. They are putting in a fuckton of effort and money, and that alone gives me hope.

In this day and age, it just takes too much of my effort to remain eternally pessimistic about the things I love. Optimism feels good, and when things turn out badly, meh, you move on. Pessimism makes you feel like shit, and only makes you feel good again when/if your fears are proven right.

I keep my expectations tempered, but I keep my hopes high, if that makes sense.

 

I had very few expectations for Wheel of Time tv show and I liked the books. It still managed to disappoint. Tolkien's work I like more, yet my expectations for this show are down in the gutter. I hope to be pleasantly surprised, but I expect it to be more Amazon drivel, mass marketed for the lowest denominator and failing even at that.

 

Like, I hope I'm wrong. I want it to be good...but I had the blinders on for too long with WoT. Rafe Judkins said all the right things too leading up to the show. So idk.

I'd trust all of this a lot more if it was HBO honestly.

Two of the best fantasy IPs were purchased by a company that has very little experience making this sorts of things.

 

Hope is first step on the road to disappointment. Sometimes you have to let go the things you love.

 

I'm just annoyed that the feeds are advertising it as a series on Amazon that you should watch *now*. I'm sorry -- is the link in the popup also including a time dilation macro?

 

Big fucking lol at everyone who said this would look cheap like WoT.



Anyways. Super intrigued, but not much to go on really.

 

I mean first trailer for WoT didn't look bad either.

Spoiler

Will wait until first episode but it looks entirely too CGI for me. More hobbit less LOTR

 

Almost everyone was ripping on WoT for the cheap vfx and costumes. Even we here at DLP.

It is very clear that tons and tons and tons of money went into aesthetic for this show.