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Basis for Wizarding Aristocracy

Discussion in 'Fanfic Discussion' started by Skeletaure, Nov 27, 2022.

  1. Skeletaure

    Skeletaure Magical Core Enthusiast ~ Prestige ~ DLP Supporter

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    Most versions of "Lord Potter" have no real basis for the system of aristocracy. Certain people just have titles, and those titles come with certain legal rights.

    This is in stark contrast to the real world basis of aristocracy, which was basically a system of land ownership. And because land gave both economic and military power, it was also the system in which political power was wielded.

    So if you were going to create a wizarding aristocracy with a historical basis for why these titled wizards were able to accumulate political power, what would it be?

    The obvious option would be to just copy the Muggle system and go with land. The problem with this is that land is rather less important to wizards than it is to Muggles. While wizards will still need to grow food, and will still value the production of livestock and crops (specifically, magical species), they play far less of an important role in wizarding society.

    Wizarding society is one where the power wielded by individuals via their personal magic is the most decisive factor in political power. I think any basis for a wizarding aristocracy needs to acknowledge this and work with it.

    An alternative could be something to do with wands. Taking the Elder Wand as a model, you could lean into the idea that certain wands are very powerful and/or have unique powers. These wands are then passed down families, creating hereditary power. You would not be Lord Potter of Stinchcombe, you would be Lord Potter of the Blackthorn Wand. This has a few dynamics that work quite nicely:

    1. It concentrates family power in the primary line, as only one person can inherit the family wand. This allows for a "Head of House" dynamic that aristocracy fics almost always adopt but rarely justify.

    2. Like Muggle aristocracy, it is a power that can be taken away. Just as slighting the King might result in your lands and titles being stripped, a family wand might be confiscated and regifted to another family in political favour.

    3. It allows the most powerful families to accumulate multiple titles and an oligarchy to form.

    4. It is still subject to the whims of individual talent. A powerful wand in the hands of a complete idiot probably will not save that family from disaster. A Dumbledore-like savant with an ordinary wand is still very dangerous.

    5. It permits all sorts of family infighting over who gets to inherit the family wand, especially if the default heir (the eldest) is not the most talented child.

    6. It creates lots of possibilities for worldbuilding in the form of coming up with the wands' unique properties.

    7. It creates many opportunities for interesting stories about the fortuities of power, such as Percy Weasley on a mission to recover the Weasley family wand.
     
  2. Glimmervoid

    Glimmervoid Professor

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    Basing it on wands would allows for strange titles. The first thing that jumps into my mind is the Gentleman Usher of the Black Rod, which in real life is an office created by royal patent for the House of Lords. Noble titles are also created by letters patent but of a different kind.

    That does raise an interesting idea - what if these 'wand nobles' were constitutionally holders of royal offices rather patents of nobility? They are custodians these ancient charges. The Ardent Warden of the Sorrowful Staff, the Right Honourable Custodian of the Sceptre of Justice.

    By constitutional tradition these wands would be inherited down family lines but constitutionally they are appointed by the Crown.

    It might also open the door for some Roman style adoption, with the current holder of a wand 'adopting' an heir. There's not much Roman theming in Harry Potter (beyond the spells) but a lot of the more traditional families like using Latinate names, so it might wedge in there.
     
  3. BTT

    BTT Viol̀e͜n̛t͝ D̶e͡li͡g҉h̛t҉s̀ ~ Prestige ~

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    Your idea of wands is interesting, and already leans close to the idea of a "house ring" or the like which is a widespread idea in fanfiction. These rings, however, also tend to have other (relatively minor but more or less universal) abilities like access to the manor's magical protections, some protection against theft or against offensive magic simply by wearing it, or simply acting as a magical seal of approval.

    One additional point that I think you've not raised is that wands are still temperamental, noble wands presumably even moreso. It would be very much possible to have a gifted wizard at, say, Transfiguration, whereas the family wand works much better with Charms or the like, leading to a rejection of the wizard as suitable in the worst case. In all likelihood most noble wizards would have their every day wand, used for common magic and daily usage, whereas the family wand is used only for ceremonial functions.

    I imagine a duel where one is wielding the family wand could be quite dangerous, which brings me to consider that wands seem easier to break than rings. What would happen if the family wand were broken? I imagine its magic would disperse, but would the wand need to be remade or can a whole new wand be made? What effects - politically, socially, magically - does the break have on the wizards of said house?
     
  4. aAlouda

    aAlouda High Inquisitor

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    I like the Idea of family wands among the nobility and have given it some thought before.
    I think it worse especially well since according to Ollivander in DH wizards and their wand go through "a mutual quest for experience, the wand learning from the wizard, the wizard from the wand", so these family wands would basically act as a storage for the knowledge, skill and unique insights of any of their previous wielders always becoming a more refined and useful tool for the family it serves.

    We know something along the lines happened with the Elder Wand.
    A full century later, another unpleasant character, this time named Godelot, advanced the study of Dark Magic by writing a collection of dangerous spells with the help of a wand he described in his notebook as “my moste wicked and subtle friend, with bodie of Ellhorn(Elder), who knowes ways of magick moste evile”. (Magick Moste Evile became the title of Godelot’s masterwork.) As can be seen, Godelot considers his wand to be a helpmeet, almost an instructor. Those who are knowledgeable about wandlore will agree that wands do indeed absorb the expertise of those who use them, though this is an unpredictable and imperfect business; one must consider all kinds of additional factors, such as the relationship between the wand and the user, to understand how well it is likely to perform with any particular individual. Nevertheless, a hypothetical wand that had passed through the hands of many Dark wizards would be likely to have, at the very least, a marked affinity for the most dangerous kinds of magic. Most witches and wizards prefer a wand that has “chosen” them to any kind of second-hand wand, precisely because the latter is likely to have learned habits from its previous owner that might not be compatible with the new user’s style of magic. The general practice of burying (or burning) the wand with its owner, once he or she has died, also tends to prevent any individual wand learning from too many masters. Believers in the Elder Wand, however, hold that because of the way in which it has always passed allegiance between owners – the next master overcoming the first, usually by killing him – the Elder Wand has never been destroyed or buried, but has survived to accumulate wisdom, strength and power far beyond the ordinary.
    Which over the centuries became ever more powerful by absorbing the knowledge and skill of the most powerful of wizards, with one dark wizard even using the knowledge of the wand itself to write a book(Magick Moste Evile) on dark magic advancing the art even further.
    Though it is mentioned that the wands pick up habits of their previous owner, which may not suit the newer one, according to Rowling wands do work better with family members
    And it's not inconceivable that over the centuries the wands themselves adapt themselves to serve one particular family better once it got a habit of having a particular number of them as wielders.

    And the traditional practise of wizards being burried with their wands also works well, if you think of it as a tradition pushed by the aristocracy, to ensure poorer wizards dont elevate themselves in status.

    But I have to add that I dont think a wizarding aristocracy based on land is impossible, if you simply go with the idea that some lands are more magical than other, as in certain mountains, lakes/riversides, woods and ruins, just naturally being a more magical and mysterious, having an athmosphere favouring magical fauna/flora and perhaps even manmade enhcantments. So a family controling a particular area, would also have a decent hold on the supply of things important for magical society. Like if your family owned a magical forrest, you'd have direct access to stuff like wand trees and unicorn hair, or if you had acces to a magical lake you'd become the most direct trading partner with local merpeople.
     
  5. Celestin

    Celestin Dimensional Trunk

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    And there is the whole lore about land and its ruler being magically connected. Maybe there was a certain magic in the past that was only possible if you had lordship over some lands, but as everything changed it's not as important as before.

    It would make that magic mirrors the mundane in a way. In the past having land what was people believed will make them somebody, but in modern times it's the knowledge. Though now that I think about it, in both cases money was just as important and now I wonder if there is a setting where not only gold and other precious metals, but concept of money is somehow magical. Could be an interesting thing.
     
  6. Garden

    Garden Supreme Mugwump

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    Perhaps wands only work with children they consider adequate heirs of their knowledge. Over time, this means the Malfoy wand only works for heirs that are particularly malfoy-like. Perhaps this incentivized larger numbers of children to hedge against dud heirs, or very strict childrearing to try to produce a certain type of heir.
     
  7. arkkitehti

    arkkitehti High Inquisitor

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    This is basically my take on the thing, with the twist that using magic will over time infuse the land with more magic. So a millennia old family estate of a pureblood family would be highly magical, while the home of a muggleborn wizard wouldn't be any different from an ordinary muggle house.

    In this framework the importance of Hogwarts in canon would also make more sense: Having a large population of wizards use magic in Hogwarts for a thousand years would have made Hogwarts grounds uniquely magical, and not just a school.
     
  8. MuggsieToll

    MuggsieToll Groundskeeper

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    Perhaps, rather than land, it's monopoly over magical resources that gives the WA it's authority.

    Your family controls 90% of the land that can be used to farm Mandrakes at scale. This gives your family a massive amount of economic power in the potion market.

    Your X-great-grandparent was buddy buddy with William the Conqueror, as so was made Warden of the Shrieking Staff, a wand made of Mandrake root.

    Your family controls the biggest Dragon Reserve in Britain or the sole breeder of a rare type of dragon. Your x-great-grandparent was dubbed Protector of the Fiery Rod by Elizabeth I, a wand made of red oak.
     
  9. Erotic Adventures of S

    Erotic Adventures of S Denarii Host

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    I like the idea of it being attached to a thing rather than land. But I think that could lean to much into wandwank territory where Wands just because a dues ex Machina.

    I would go more with artefacts in general, or specific places and buildings.

    Lord Abbot of Whitewater, a pond that is the only place that a certain and vital potion ingredient can grow, and is tied to their bloodline and area.

    Baron Greymoot of Skyview, a crumbling old tower, which the enchantment that was the base of the flop network is tied to.

    Old wizard families used to fight viciously over these areas, some of the oldest tied to a family through what would now be considered very dark magic.

    The more recent “Lords” are usually heriditary, but looked down upon as they don’t have the history, and the protection of bloodline magic to link them, so their position is seen rather more temporary than others.
     
  10. aAlouda

    aAlouda High Inquisitor

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    One interesting thing is in Half-Blood-Prince, where Dumbledore considers the possibility that Grimmauld place was enchanted by the Black family to only be owned by a pure-blood, though this ends up not being the case, that Dumbledore found this possibility plausable is telling.
    But even more importantly is the method Dumbledore uses to verify that Harry magically inherited Grimmauld Place.
    As in, he summoned Kreacher and had Harry give him an order to test if has magically come into Harry's ownership, as if he had to obey Harry, it meant Harry owned Grimmauld place rather than Bellatrix.

    This kind of thing could act a general signfier for proper inheritence among wizarding aristocracy, as in having ownership of a House-Elf tied to whatever the noble title is bound by, be it a property or a magical item, with the proper owner also being the elf's master.
     
  11. Donimo

    Donimo Auror

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    Wizarding families tied to land by inherited authority is very plausible within the framework of Harry Potter magic. This ownership carrying a title only works if the land is important to people beyond the owners. Otherwise it's just inherited land, and as said land is cheap to a wizard. I do like the ideal of dwellings or larger areas becoming part of a family more than a muggle estate. Especially the idea of extended families living in a shared area. Which would promote the fanon clannish behavior, and give a reason for there to be a head of the family. There's room in this concept for an aristocracy to manifest, but only if this arrangement confers a great enough benefit to participants. In which case subject families can become a part of the system.

    I do like the idea of a wand of power being representative of this authority.
     
  12. Drachna

    Drachna High Inquisitor

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    I quite like the wand idea, because it meshes well with families usually ending up in the same house thing. The wand chooses the wizard, but maybe the wizard can attempt to become the type of person that the wand would choose. That would explain why for certain families there'd be a lot of pressure to end up in a certain house, to act in a certain way, to emulate your parents. Because if you don't, when it comes time for you to inherit, you might not be able to use the family wand, and then you would be able to exercise less political power or whatever.

    I think that this might be a factor too in the more extreme families, a certain degree of selective breeding, or pre birth charms to try and influence the child's personality.

    As for the idea of a landed aristocracy in HP, I don't think that would work for a number of reasons, with the main one being that any capable witch or wizard could apparate to a random piece of land, make it unplottable, and then put anti-muggle wards up. I'd imagine that sort of practice would be nearly impossible to police, and it would make land virtually worthless.
     
  13. DrSarcasm

    DrSarcasm Headmaster

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    Something I've seen before (not in Harry Potter, other fiction; most recently the anime Mobuseka) is the idea that a family earns its nobility because of a great deed that their ancestor did. Like, my great-great-great ancestor single-handedly defeated the goblin rebellion of 18XX, so he was awarded a Lordship and a seat on the Wizengamot.

    It would mesh pretty well with the ancestral wand idea, as rather than it being a random powerful wand they reuse the wand of their great ancestor, and blood purity, as they are keeping the blood of their ancestor "pure." The Gaunts could presumably be an offshoot of the Slytherin line that didn't inherit his wand or seat but managed to keep his amulet, which they prized just as much.

    Branching off from that, the Order of Merlin could have been either an evolution of the practice or thought up by the purebloods as a way of not having to give away any more lordships to damn mudbloods, foreigners, peasants, etc.
     
  14. Donimo

    Donimo Auror

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    I've thought about this and I think it works best as a Wand being a symbol and expression of shared authority, instead of a just being a powerful wand.

    This works with the idea of wizarding communes, an idea that had some canonical merit. Since we know wizards tend to group in areas. Such groups of people being more formally united by a principal wizard bearing a wand of authority. The land they live on wouldn't be important, just that a group of people with shared intent live together.

    The desires of this group can shape the Wand, and determine who capable of mastering it and become the lord. Which goes with the idea of heirs being raised in certain ways to make them eligible. It makes who lives in a land and how they behave important for reasons beyond prosperity or order. This would shape politics within the community and the head house.

    So over time the different Wands would become very distinct and require very different people to take them up.

    I imagine some sort of fisher king loop. Prosperity of the people makes a strong lord, and a strong lord making the people prosperous. Though I don't have a good idea of what form this is. It would need to be evident enough that people are willing to submit to an others authority without going too far.

    I imagine Wands go without owners at times. The older and more powerful a Wand the more discerning it would be. When left alone it would weaken and eventually accept a master.

    The emergence of this society seems straight forward. Neighbors working together eventually manifesting into something greater. Having an empowered head offers protection from outsiders, or deviants within a community.

    It extends to a national level. Essentially the same thing can be repeated, with first a national council of lords working together. Eventually some form of chief emerges and with it a symbol of the authority of that office. The ministry is later build around this system.

    This also allows for the easy expansion of the wizarding community. There aren't that make students at Hogwarts because most are educated by their communities.
     
  15. Blorcyn

    Blorcyn Chief Warlock DLP Supporter

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    Is this strictly true? Esq. land owners and knights - which came with a non-peerage title and a feudal knight’s fee parcel to furnish feudal obligations - were commons. However, titled aristocracy while being titled by a territorial designation came with defined legal privileges that others did not enjoy with regard to prosecution (being the one I can recall off the top of my head), and then a few more as you go further back.

    I appreciate your post then goes on to make a lot of interesting points and a great points for jump off into world building. But if your headline two paragraphs are that titled wizards in fanfiction enjoy legal rights in stark contrast to the real world, where wizarding culture which divorced itself officially from muggle society in the late 1600s, then that seems just flat wrong as titled muggles did enjoy legal privileges.
     
  16. Dilakos

    Dilakos Muggle

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    While a hierarchical system based on the ownership of lands or titles isn't impossible to form in a society like Harry Potter's, I doubt it would be founded on the model adopted by the medieval European aristocracy -or at least not the one that was done so by the Lords, Ladies, and Monarchs of Northern Europe.

    Your ideas regarding wand ownership are fascinating and could work believably, nonetheless. However, I am much more fond of the concept of a hierarchy based on the one formed over centuries in the Roman Republic or the Merchantile Republics of Northern Europe. Where instead of a family's prestige coming from the amount of land they owned, it came from how many distinguished members it possessed. Following this concept, a house from the world of Wizarding Britain would gain prestige by having members earn awards for services provided to the state, for inventing new spells or potions, for owning a very famous store or company (i.e. a broom-making company or the Sleakeazy potion created by Harry's grandfather), for how many times it has taken up the mantle of Headmaster, Minister, Undersecretary or Head Auror. This way it would accurately reflect how Republican Oligarchies operated, where continued service to the state was more important than land ownership.

    One could even work in Blood Supremacy, where the purity of a family's blood played a large role in whether they could even participate in government. I would, for example, base such a system after the spartan diarchy. Give the Minister and the Mugwump equal military and religious powers, while handing over legislative powers to a council of seven (not five like the spartans, since seven seems to hold a special magical role in JKR's world) elders, who are chosen and replaced every year from the Sacred Twenty-Eight. As for the Wizengamot, it would serve only a judicial role, in that they would be a supreme court responsible for determining the severity of a person's crimes.

    And in regards to the extinction of certain families like the Blacks amongst the Sacred Tweny-Eight, I would make it so that Cadet Branches would take over in the case of such events. If there exists no living descendant, the elevation of a less prestigious family would take place, like the Potters.