You just violated the patriot act.......son of a bitch we're going to war.

 

Well, from what I got, DarkSov's posts consist of "JKR IS GUNNA MAKE SNAPE GOODY-GOODY COZ HE'S SMART AND POWERFUL AND SYMBOLLIC!" and Belerdorhan is repeatedly homing on the fact that "SNAPE KILLED DUMBLEDORE!"


In my opinion, you're both right.

1) Snape is smart, intelligent and powerful. It's referenced in canon all the time, making spells, knowing seventh-year curses in first year, blah, blah, blah. Canon-wise, people can't dispute that, so don't even bother trying as you have been. Stop being biased and acknowledge that maybe, just maybe, we can't always been on Snape-bashing mode about this point.

2) Snape is a dick, a bully, a git, blah, blah, blah. He's a horrible teacher as well. I'm currently studying to be a teacher and if I pulled even a tenth of the shit Snape did, I would be sued, fired, sued, disgraced and sued...and not in that order. Personally, I don't give a fuck if Snape had a traumatic childhood or if he's a product of his enviroment or that crap- that's the kinda shit you hear at an abuse trial where the father has raped the daughter and in turn had been raped. No excuse. If you disagree- you're a fucktard. End of story.

3) The odds say that JKR will make Snape redeem himself. Honestly people, are you expecting anything else? I mean, this is JKR, who piled together a H/G romance so crappy that half the shit on FF.Net reads better...including the Slash! We can deny this as much as we want, we can bang our heads on the ground and whine and moan- won't change anything. In the end, it's likely that Snape will be one of the good guys

4) ::^:: - Doesn't mean we have to like the bastard or condone what he did. Hell, I don't give a fuck if Snape killed Dumbledore cause he was dying of AIDS or something, it doesn't mean squat to Harry or most readers who liked Dumbledore.

Consider this: A man kills your grandfather because he needs to keep his cover, and, what the hell, the grandfather was injured or dying or whatever. Besides, they told the man to kill them so the man could protect other people. A little while later, the same man comes back and explains to you what he had done and why he had done it. What would you do?

Me, I would grab the man by the throat, grab a knife and start my "Torture for Dummies 101" course on this man's stomach- cause I don't give a fuck for the greater good, this bastard had just killed somebody you cared about, somebody you love...fuck the greater good.

In conclusion, I will sum it up as Belerdorhan has.
SNAPE KILLED DUMBLEDORE
To those who liked Dumbledore, we don't give a fuck about the greater good or the war effort or whatever. We unconditionally hate the bastard because of this one fact and there's nothing you can say that will change our opinion.

5) Okay, Snape has done a lot of good for the Order of Phoenix. JKR will probably make him redeem himself in the 7th book by revealing that he acted on orders and whatever. But frankly, in my opinion, I don't care. Snape has shown himself to be a very dislikable character in the books and despite what he has done for 'good', I can't help but dislike him. We can rave on about his spying, his work, the stress, blah, blah, blah, but he's a bully. He picks on children. He murders people.

In the end, there can be depth to his character, he can be an incredibly complex man with a past of history, a flawed personaility and whatever. I still don't care and I believe there's only one thing we can say to him.

"AVADA KEDAVRA!"

 

Just out of curiosity. How is Snape portraid in the movies? I Have only read the books and have not seen the movies but I wonder if Snape is shown better in them?

I mean in the books he is obviously a complete asshole but could someone who has not read the books and only seen the movies get a more positive view of him? I am sure there are some fangirls or whatever that never bothered to read the books.

That being said I rather hope that JKR will surprise us all by revealing that Snape was not acting under some higher purpose or greater good. I hope he really has joined with Voldemort for good and I hope he is brutally slaughtered in the last book. Atleast that way he would remain a character who you could love to hate. I mean there is nothing I like more than seeing Snape hurt or humiliated in fanfics. He is a monster and he should remain one.

 

You need to go reread the books.

Snape, as portrayed by JKR, is, by design, a shallow and tasteless character. His character is meant to embody someone who has fallen to petty anger and ego. It is a lesson in what happens when you let your, as you said, history of pain, hatred, and betrayal consume you. THAT is the total complexity of the character. Snape's back history may be complex, but on the whole the character is not.

JKR will most likely utlize this exact nature as her "lesson in redemption" too. She will show that someone who has fallen so far and is so monochromatic can still be "brought back to the light" so to speak - it's wonderful 180º role reversal fantasy. It's utterly idiotic and totally unrealistic, but hey...it is a kid's series.

In JKR's world things are black and white. Good vs. Evil, Voldemort vs. Harry, Order vs. Death Eaters. We have, with the exception of Snape, a clear black and white view of where each character stands; who the good guys are and who the bad guys are. Snape's loyalty is the only ambiguous element, BUT Snape's character as a human is not. He's an ass and that's that.

Edit: Oh, and I don't know where the idea that Snape was an idiot started, but I don't think anyone will dispute his abilities. The problem is that being a great potion's master or able to duel well does not make the character any less of a bastard or monochromatically written.

 

I don't think any of us are excusing Snape because we enjoy Alan Rickman's performance. We are suggesting that the reason so many fangirl fail to grasp what a wonderfully twisted fuck Severus Snape is is because they're smitten with Alan Rickman's nice voice and lovely hands.

 

Maltese, that's EXACTLY what I'm saying. Thank you. And I'm not excusing him for his personality; yeah, he's an ass, but the responsibility for his ass-ness belong as much to those he grew up around as it does himself. We are all products of our environments. And while good people can come from bad environments (i.e. Sirius) and bad from good (i.e. Peter), generally, bad people come from bad environments. Blame the environment as much as the person, that's what I'm getting at.

And, I'm also of the opinion that Snape will be one of the 2 major characters to die in book 7 (as JK has alluded to--the 2 dying, not it being Snape). And I have no problem with that.

 

You think Draco counts a major character? I would give my right arm and left nut to read about him being brutally tortured to death by Harry and/or Voldemort.

 

That's the only thing I've agreed with you about yet

Draco Malfoy? Hmm. Well, I know Harry is too goodey-goodey to ever torture, but Voldemort . . . no, he's not important enough. Snape is almost definitely going to be one of the two dying, and then maybe Hagrid? Jk. Umm . . I personally hope it's Ron, but I some how doubt she'll get rid of one of the golden trio.

 

I don't think Draco's gonna die. It doesn't seem particularly set up for that to happen. Remember how he practically wet himself when they told him to kill Dumbledore? I see it as a bit of a Regulus situation--he's gonna try and find some way out. And probably fail, but maybe not die.

 

Umm . . . you just kind of contradicted yourself. First you say he's not going to die, then you say he's going to pull a Regulus . . . and yet you don't think he's going to die? If you pull a Regulus, you die. Plain. and. simple.

 

The left nut? You don't have to give that. Arm, sure, fine, but nut is a whole other level of seriousness. On topic: My money's on Harry saving Malfoy from some horrible danger and then saving his parents. Draco then becomes a wonderful friend. Sans buttsecks. I'm actually kinda confident that'll happen.

 

Well that combined with a redemption!Snape plot element would be enough to make me burn my books and DVDs.

 

Well, considering that Regulus did what he did in the middle of Voldemort's reign of terror, and comparing that with the fact that Voldemort will die at the end of book 7 (which would put any attempts of leaving at the relative end of his second reign), I'd say that Malfoy has a better chance to survive to the end than Regulus did. Also, JK has only killed off two prominent characters in 6 books, and two more are to come. I just don't think that Draco will be one of those two.

 

Saying that is pretty much stating that nothing you do can change your life. However, you are partialy true though, you just forget to include that your outcome is how you let your enviroment influence you.

You make him sound like a genius. In canon he never is shown to shine that much. From what I gather in canon he had people smarter/better in all his classes. Atleast that is what i gather from all books. From what Slughorn say, Lily seemed to be better then Snape at potions.

Not sure Hermione has a creative mind enough to think up her own things. However, Harry might have come up with a spell or two if his life was abit diffirent and he put his mind into school. I doubt Snape had to look after his shoulder everyday to check if a Dark Lord is standing behind him.

Not sure he ever was a double agent. To me, Snape was on Voldemorts side all along. Do you actually think someone as Voldemort would allow Snape to shield his mind infront of him? That alone would make Snape eat a few Crucios.

Anyway, I beleive that JKR will make out Snape and Malfoy to be a good guys. Not sure how she can make it beleivable with Snape, but she will probebly try. So fanfictions will continue with Snape/Malfoy/harry buttseckz triangles.

 

Uh, I actually did not fail to include that. I very much did include that:

Snape is clearly a genius. he's able to maintain occlumency shields of a strength to rival both Voldemort and Dumbledore. He had the knowhow to modify potions to alter the results at 16 years of age, and created spells of his own. If you didn't have to be a genius to do that, then EVERYONE WOULD JUST DO WHATEVER SPELLS THEY WANTED WHENEVER THEY WANTED TO.

So...You're disagreeing with yourself here? We all know that Snape will turn out to be a 'good' guy. There's no real indication that he will be anything but. If you really continue to fail to see that, then you're thinking along the same lines as those 'Snape/Malfoy/Harry Buttsex' people, except that you only see the evil of Snape. It's a complex character.

 

...and with that I'm done with this headache inducing thread of my own creation.

 

I figure that Snape will die at the end, probably taking an AK for Harry and leaving a clear path to Voldemort (the character as written throughout the series would probably spend the Rest Of Eternity throwing a tantrum over it, too.) Can you tell I'm not a Snape fangirl?
.
If you are done, then may I do a slight thread hijack?

Draco Malfoy will receive one mildly crippling injury (probably left with a minor limp [that way he can inherit his father's pimp-cane.] ) He will see the Light of the Good Side and Turn Over A New Leaf. He will give much of his family assets to rebuilding after the Final Battle, marry a half-blood Girl (no matter how he swings [Personally I think he's so narcissistic that he can only wank by using a mirror]) and Help Lead the Wizarding World Into a Brighter Future.
Or else he will become insanely repentant, give away ALL the family assets and join a monastery. Probably one with lots of mirrors.

Luna will wander off into the Forbidden Forest and start a local newsheet targeted at centaurs and acromantulas. They'll be so bewildered, she might start a new religion for them.

Ginny will be eaten by Nagini, inspiring Harry into that last Burst Of Love that will be necessary to destroy the Horcrux. (I hope it really really hurts, too. I hate Ginny.)

Fawkes will show up early in Book 7 and bond with Harry. Harry will Slay The Dark Lord, become an Auror, retire after a decade or so (while he's still pretty) and come back to Hogwarts to teach DA until he takes over as Headmaster. He will develop a clothes sense that would appall Dumbledore.

End of hijack:
.

And Snape will spend the time until judgement day ranting hysterically about the unfairness of it all. Luckily, everyone will be able to ignore him. GodILoatheThatMan.

* happy sigh *

 

There's no way Snape will willingly give his life--it'd have to be TAKEN from him.

Draco will not see the light; he will sulk back, defeated and discouraged, into his dark manor, the last of the Malfoys.

 

Ummm... if Draco doesn't See The Light, then he'll end up with Pansy Parkinson. *cringe*

I can't imagine having to hear that girl's voice every morning. Although they'd probably have separate rooms - I doubt SHE'd have mirrors over the bed...

Maybe Pettigrew will redeem the Life Debt by pushing Snape in front of the AK? Hmm... then Lupin can die heroically killing Peter (I don't particularly like Remus, either. He just wandered off and left baby Harry. I hope MY chidren's godparents are more responsible.)

 

Actually I don't disagree with myself. If you read it you would see that one was my oppinion on Snape. The other is how I see it likley that JKR see Snape.

Anyway, Snape isn't that complex. He is spiteful, hateful and petty. The only times he is shown in good light is when Dumbledore talks about him. If it where more to Snape then there would be atleast 1 more person besides Dumbledore that think highly of Snape.

If he was a genius, then James and Lily are prodigies among geniuses. Never in the book is Snape better at spells then either of them. Then again, we aren't really shown that many people in canon. So how are we to know that they don't modify their own spells?
The only tihng pointing to Snape beeing above average is the potions book Harry has in HBP. Nothing else really points to him beeing anything else then a good potion maker.

Well, that goes to show that you should read more carefully when you are tired... Totally missed that.