I am going to try and show how I think the wizarding world has grown and changed over the last 1000+ years. Often in fandom we hear that the wizarding world is stagnated and has stopped progressing. I suppose compared to our world this would seem true. We have space flight and jet planes and cell phones and all our modern technology.

First I’m just going to briefly show how the wizarding world is as advanced as it needs to be. As innovation is driven by need it makes sense that wizards who need very little would want anything more than what they have,

In direct comparison I think it apparent that it is the wizarding world that has the biggest advantage over the muggle world.

In travel they have apparition… that instantly beats out all personal travel modes such as cars and bikes. Floo powder works for everyone and is very safe (How many thousands die in car crashes) and has been around since the 1300’s (Lexicon). Portkeys while a bit uncomfortable are international travel and almost instant. So in travel they have everything they would ever need. They can’t go to space but they don’t need to.

Communication they have us beat with the floo network, either put your head in it or travel in person to the other end of the country for five minutes then go home. Also other forms of communication such as the mirrors and probably many other ways.

Medically they can cure almost anything we can (apparently) in a fraction of the time. While we haven’t seen cancer and stuff it would seem they would be able to magic away rather well.

Ok so now I will move on to how I think the Magical world would have changed over the last 1000 years.

I first thought of this while debating the use of staves and why I think they are no longer in use.

Hogwarts is said to be about 1000 years old and apparently the first and only school in Britain. Since before this it seems apparent that magical education would be limited to small groups of people in covens or families. Thus knowledge of certain spells and skills may only be known by a dozen or fewer wizards.

Thus the Olivanders family who have apparently been making wands since 300BC may have only made them for their own family and a few others. Thus while knowledge existed it didn’t spread to others as it would have been family secrets.

Also with wizards isolated in small groups the trade of goods would have very limited and thus they would have been unable to make advanced magical items and potions. A compatible wand would be hard to make when you only had access to a few random bits of magical item. The average wizard back then might be luck to get their hands on a unicorn hair. But what if they weren’t compatible with that. I doubt phoenix feathers and dragon hearts were very common.

It was not until the formation of centralized trading areas Hogwarts and thus Hogsmead and Diagon ally that wizards could get their hands on what they needed to do more advanced magics. In the lexicon it shows most of the major magical discoveries starting after the ago of Hogwarts. They have also been spread out over the last thousand years. There has been no slow down in magical advancement. Advanced potions have lots of rear ingredients which would have been impossible to make in the past.

They are still advancing although at what seems to be at a slower rate than us but we need to compensate for not doing magic. Wolfsbane is a very recent discovery.

So thoughts on wizarding advancement?

 

You are of course correct in that they have us beat in more areas. They don't have an equivalent of the internet because they don't need it. They don't have tv because they don't see the need.

Many fics go on about how Wizarding Britain is stagnant and that there have been no new discoveries in the last 50 odd years, since the war with Grindlewald. This to me is utter rubbish. Certainly the greatest developments will come in times of great stress or war. The best healing potions will come during the worst epidemics most of the time and so forth.

I reckon that spell creation and potion creation, and even the creation of magical items, requires time, precision and intelligence. It almost certainly required a details back ground knowledge of the subject material. This would mean that there wouldn't be large numbers of people able to do it, but also, it probably means that there will always be people to do because it will be a valuable and worthwhile occupation.

 

Yeah, the whole 'stagnation' bit has become quite cliche is my view, and is unbelievable at best. Despite Pureblood racism and a 'traditional' style society, I can't see how a population that small and quartered so closely would not make innovations all the time.

We see in canon Hogsmeade and Diagon Alley as bustling economic areas, meaning there has to be shit to sell. I mean, if no new products, fashions, or services develop after a few years everyone would have everything offered in these areas, and business would drop off, eventually leading to the closing of shops and services.

Likewise, I can't see the Ministry or the Wizengamot being old-fashioned in regards to social change. Sure, the Wizengamot may be a bunch of old fogies (May or may not be) and the Ministry may be corrupt, but they must have huge research grants ready for the plucking for anyone who's willing to spend a bit of time to find new medicines, like the Wolfsbane potion, new magical species, like the Blast-Ended Skrewts, new plants, like the Mimbletonia, new brooms, and so forth. I mean, no one does those kinds of in-depth studies or experiments for free.

Just because Harry and co. are not the most informed group within the wizarding world does not mean that said world is a stagnant cesspool. In fact, I'm pretty sure this whole 'stagnation' thing is purely a fanon-created concept.

 

I believe that progress has slowed in the magical world, but this isn't due to any incompetance on their part, or a less inventive nature than Muggles, it is simply for this reason: they already have everything they need. There can't be many spells out there that haven't yet been made. A skilled wizard can do practically anything he wants already - why would he need to invent more stuff?

 

If you remember creating new creatures "hybrids" is illegal. Also we do know that the government does stifle some innovation because its corrupt, flying carpets for example. I can see a few other things like magical cellphones being kept down because the owners of the floo (Ministry of Magic). I don't agree with the no advancements in the last fifty years but I can see the government stopping some advancement for bribes.

Other than that I don't have much to add besides good job.

 

I agree with what you are all saying and how they don't need to invent any of that other stuff. BUT! Advancement isn't just new inventions,

I think the wizarding world would be slightly better if say, they embraced some aspects of modern muggle technology or even manipulated it to suit they're needs.

Surely muggle technology could help in some things if you combined the two. I'm sure most people in the wizarding world would love to be able to watch Quidditch on a wizarding TV, perhaps something like a pensieve.

Yes, wizards are very advanced when it comes to travel and medicine and most things, and the whole "The wizarding world is stuck in the past and barbaric" thing really irks me, but I do think they could go further.

The difference between muggles and wizards when it comes to technological and (magilogical?) advancements, is that wizards have reached a point and are happy to remain content with what they have. muggles keep going.

 

I think you've postulated more of a philosophical point on the insatiable nature of the general populace than on the stagnation of wizards.

 

Well, I guess.

Shortened version: The whole stagnation of wizards....Bollocks.

 

While I agree with most of what others have said I cannot help but think that when it comes to the field of communication muggles easily have the wizarding world beat.

Things like cellphones and the internet are easily superiour to having to find a place to floo from or sending letters with an owl that can potentially take hours to reach the destination. I know that the mirrors give instant communication like cellphones but they seem to be very rare whereas in the muggle world you can reach almost anyone from almost anywhere.

Sure they don't actually NEED things like the internet but strictly speaking we dont need it either. That however does not change the fact that all of us are using it when we visit DLP. Muggles do have some things that are fun and improve the quality of life that the Wizards lack. (though the opposite is also true ofcourse)

I wonder if the reason that so many think that the wizarding world is stagnating is simply that in comparison they appear to be advancing slower than the Muggle world. I mean the world today is totally different from the world 100 years ago whereas there is an impression that little has changed for the wizards in that time. For fans of sci-fi it is easy to imagine that continuing so that when time goes a few centuries forward technology will have advanced to the point where the situation is reversed and the wizards will be the ones that cannot do any of the things that technology can.

 

I'll preface this post with a reminder that all we know of wizarding culture is centered on Britain, and that all of that is through the eyes of Harry Potter. It's quite possible that wizards have been all over the solar system; all one would need would be a spacesuit (or a full-body bubblehead charm) and a portkey.

On the subject of communications, wizards would have no reason to set up a telephone network; they can simply apparate to the person the want to talk to on a whim. In 1996, the Internet was not nearly as expansive or apparently useful as it is now, and the wizarding world did not have a preexisting telecom network. On the other hand, we have no idea as to the capabilities of the Wizarding Wireless, such as whether it on transmitted audio, or something more.

 

I don't think being able to apparate could replace cellphones. There are many instances where you can't or don't want to apparate. Remember that the wizarding world uses owls extensively to send messages. Cellphones could do that far faster and more effectively. Remember also that children cannot apparate.

You are correct about internet being less usefull in 1996. Were traditional modems and dial-ups still used back then? The horror! Still the world shown in the books would be unlikely to have embraced the internet in just 10 years. We however have, which is a good example of my point about how the wizarding world seems to advance slower in comparison.

While wizards on the whole generally can do far more than muggles it cannot be denied that there are areas where things like computers, cellphones, the internet and things like that would greatly benefit wizards. I suspect this is why JKR made magic harmfull to electronics. She probably wanted to show the wizarding world as more archaic and traditional. If magic and computers could co-exist then not taking advantage of them would cast the wizards in a rather foolish light.

 

The original concept of the internet was for the convenient sharing of materials between computers if I remember correctly. Since the wizarding world does not have, nor need, computers, they do not have the internet.

They have a projection charm that could no doubt be modified to work over a longer distance if it was required. At the World Cup in GoF the game is projected on the big screen in the stadium as it plays. So they have the capability, obviously the choice has been made to not impliment it for some reason. Could that reason be that stream of magic flying through the air would cause problems with the muggle world? I think that is the most likely explanation.

Vegemeister, I can just see it. Muggles land on Mars in the year 2040, only to find a colony of humans who can practice magic.

The mobile phone came about Datakim, because the phone existed. The wizarding world does not have, nor need, the phone therefor the mobile phone does not exist. Certainly for extreme long distances, ie another country, the phone or email might be more efficient, but if you were perhaps a spell creator in Canada wanting the advice of Dumbledore on a complicated issue, you could just as easily floo him rather than write.

If anything, its better for the society in general that children keep up the practice of letter writing, if only from the point of view that it prevents the corruption of language as has happened in the real world. Can you imagine what Snape would do if someone handed in an essay that contained some 1337 speak?

Wergan, flying carpets aren't an inovation, they've been around for centuries. They've been banned because they're more noticeable than a broom and are deemed enchanted muggle objects.

 

I'll definitely agree that the idea of wizarding stagnation is somewhat cliche and a fanon-created concept. But I think the main point most make is that they're limiting themselves and their imaginations by strictly avoiding all things muggle. Intentional willful ignorance of the majority of the planet, which is in the midst of practically a technological revolution. And the idea that muggles would abuse the wizards for a magical solution to everything is a weak argument. How completely oblivious they are to many muggle things is a demonstration of at least Britain's ability to keep up with the times. The two societies are too closely related to be completely separate from each other.

One of the cliches is the idea that many wizards don't believe that the "muggles have landed on the moon." (I don't think this is canon, but I could easily be wrong.) It might be fun to find out American and Russian wizards have made their own spaceships back in the day, in a magical race to space, or magical equivalents of some modern muggle ideas do exist. Like a magical bookshelf that creates a sort of magical database of the books on it, can sort itself, locate the book for you, reference everything in it, etc. Who needs muggle computer crap when the magic works fine.

It's the fear of all things muggle that perpetuates the idea wizards are stagnant. Because muggles have definitely been taking steps in the last century.

 

Strictly speaking it could be argued that the wizards could do practically anything. I mean magic does not obey the laws of physics nor does it really have any strict rules or boundaries in the books.

I wonder if this is actually a part of the reason that some see the wizarding world as stagnating. I mean given all the things they can do why is it that they still use owls to send messages. We know that its possible to create magical items that can be used to transmit not only sound but images too. Why in the world are they not in common usage?

I could just imagine it. Harry has just been transported by the cup to the graveyard. He pulls out a mirror and contacts Dumbledore and screams that he is in graveyard somewhere. Dumbledore apparates there and kills Pettigrew and the world is saved!

There are so many things that could arguably be done with magic that have not been shown. Things that would have made so much sense. Imagine if it was standard practise to give every student in Hogwart a portkey that they could activate at any moment to transport to safety. Such an obvious innovation that could have saved so much trouble.

Obviously there is a real life reason for this. It would have meant that Harry could have instantly escaped from Quirrell, The basilisk, Dementors, the graveyard and so on. This would have resulted in boring books. This does however give the slight impression that wizards cannot come up with original and innovative ways to use magic.

Edit: Ok. Nonjon said what I was trying to say far more eloquently. Wizards would benefit from magical computers and magical cellphone-mirrors and such. So why the hell are they not used?

 

Come to think about it, the wizarding world seems to me to be a parasite on the muggle world. It takes muggle advancements for its own and sucks out valuable muggle-borns from the economy, but it never gives anything back. I've never heard of one advancement or device wizards have given muggle-borns. Of course there's a reason for that, but it still reeks of foul play. Wizards have never contributed anything to the muggle economy or world. They just take things; they never give back.

This is one of the main excuses I've heard time and again from the pro-Wizarding side for why wizards supposedly aren't advancing their society. Now, I'm going to only address this point alone. I'm not saying whether or not wizarding society is advancing or stagnant. But this point has just been annoying me forever.

It's complete and utter bullshit. Humans will never stop advancing no matter how much they have. Bill Gates has everything he needs. Does that stop him from attempting to make Microsoft richer? It doesn't. He still tries as hard as he did when he didn't have everything he needed. It's human nature to be greedy and strive to make one's life better. Otherwise capitalism wouldn't exist.

And "having everything you need" is a term which sounds nice until you actually try to find out what it is. You can never tell when you have everything you need. Is it when you have food? When you're rich? When you rule the world? You always want more. "The other side of the hill is always greener." Look to me as an example. I have all the human needs - food, shelter, water, sex, money, etc. But am I doing nothing because of this? Hell, no! I want to advance in life - to be better than what I previously was. Having all my needs fulfilled has nothing to do with it.

Unless the pro-wizarding side is saying that wizards aren't human - that they aren't jealous, greedy, or power-hungry - this idea is completely unworkable. If the wizarding world is stagnant, it isn't because wizards like it stagnant. If it isn't, then this idea is off-topic.

Probably wizards will have the Internet by the year 2060. Communications between the worlds are very weak due to wizarding arrogance, so it takes a long time for advancements in the muggle world to filter through to the wizarding world. A rule of thumb is that it takes around 50 years. That would explain why they have radios and cars but not television or computers. The same goes for mobile phones.

 

Belerdorhan, I have only one response for you.

If it ain't broke, don't fix it.

Wizards have probably stagnated recently, but not much. If something new isn't needed, why make it? If World War 2 never came about, would the japanese have ever saw a reason to bomb Pearl Harbour? No, because their was no reason for a tactical strike against America.

And, your arguement falls back on itself. You say that it's human nature to be greedy. I don''t argue with that. But, if you say wizards advance only because of greed, economies would collapse. People would keep all their ideas to themselves. The wizard/witch who discovered the ability of apparation would hvae kept it to themselves. That's greed, but it didn't happen.

 

You did not address this at me but I figured I would give my thoughts anyway

Is this kind of belief not the very core of stagnation?

We don't really _need_ better and faster computers so why make them?
We don't really _need_ entertainment such as HP fanfics to survive so why write them?
We don't really _need_ to know and understand things about the universe so why study space?
We don't really _need_ better quality tv or faster internet connections or other luxury items so why design them?
We don't really _need_ ... blah blah blah.

There are countless ways in which magic could be used to greatly increase the safety, productivity and happiness of wizards everywhere. Is not the fact that no one invents and starts using those ways actually proof that the wizarding world IS lacking in new ideas and innovations? What they have meets their basic needs so they remain satisfied with that instead of trying to come up with ways to meet those needs even BETTER!

The fact that everyone uses owls to communicate simply because thats how its always been done rather than moving to an easier, faster and far superiour magic mirror style communication seems a prime example of this.

You can argue that wizards could just apparate to the one they wanted to talk to but that does not change the fact that there are many times in the books where mirror style communication would have been very beneficial. For example, during book 2 Harry could simply have called his friends with the mirror when Dobby started stealing his mail.

Not necessarily. The person who invented apparation could very easily have become both famous and rich by sharing his invention with others. Think about someone like Einstein for instance. He invented GR and for that he became world reknown. Think about the nobel prize and other such rewards that are offered. For someone who is greedy, inventing new things and sharing/selling them is actually a good way to satisfy that greed.

 

I believe that the argument for stagnation comes around best when you compare wizarding and muggle societies. So far you talk about travel and communication, all these are needs of societies and wizards are comparable to muggles in that regard with their own solutions to theses problems. The biggest difference I can see is that innovation seems to be stagnated in the wizarding world, not invention. Invention would be solving an existing problem but innovation would be to make something better.

Obviously it happens and in the broom market you can see it, newer models are released and people buy them even though their old broom works, classic consumer culture. Capitalism is driven by economies of scale consumption and growth, the wizarding world is a capitalist society so wheres the growth and consumption?

There must be growth somewhere but from Harry's point of view its pretty easy to take a disparaging stance on the wizarding world. Fannon authors who write only give Harry items he could use against Voldemort certainly help. Notice how all Harry ever gets for his birthday are books on magic and maybe a broom servicing kit.

We can see a lack of growth because we have thousands of ways to amuse ourselves and Harry has quiditch, exploding snap, and wizarding chess.

 

You miss my point. I'm not saying the progress of wizards has slowed because they are satisfied with what they have. I am saying that the progress of wizards has slowed because they are running out of things to discover. As of the time of the HP stories, there are about 5 things that the magical world cannot do:

1. Block the Killing Curse.
2. Raise the dead.
3. Conjure food out of nothing.
4. Destroy Dementors.
5. Heal Werewolves.

That's about it.

Now, when the Muggle world has advanced so far that there are only 5 discoveries left in the universe to make, tell me that progress won't have slowed.

To people talking about wizards being foolish not for knowing good Muggle inventions when they see them, I present exhibit A: the wizarding camera, and exhibit B: the wizarding wireless.

In the first case, Wizards even improved upon it.

Thirdly, to those using cell phones and the internet as examples of areas where Muggles have Wizards beaten, I present exhibit C: the Protean charm. This is a charm that, when cast on a variety of objects, will cause any changes to the Master object to be replicated onto its linked objects.

With this charm, you could create an IM system like MSN simply by casting the charm on two bits of paper and writing on them. Similarly, you could create a video phone, like Sirius and James did, by casting it on a mirror. We have even seen in canon the creation of a mini-internet, more like a LAN, in both the Dark Marks of the Death Eaters and the DA coins of the DA.

 

No one denies that magic could be used to replicate all the things that muggles do and do so far better in fact. However in the books wizards don't.

They don't use use mirrors to communicate. Instead they seem afraid of change and continue to use an inferior owl system.

They have not created computer equivalents bookshelf like Nonjon described. It would make things easier for them but no one has bothered to make and market one.

They have the capability to do all these wondrous things but they simply don't. Is it not a sign of stagnation when you have the ability to do all those things to greatly improve the quality of life but you simply cannot be bothered.

No matter how much you argue that the protean charm and such could be used to replicate cellphones and the internet and such one fact remains. The wizards simply don't. Why is that?