No, unless you want to say Wormtail is one of the most powerful wizards of his generation too.

All those things were entrusted to him by Dumbledore, who had a trust problem. Even Mcgonagall is doubtful of the wisdom of entrusting Hagrid with Harry (see PS chapter 1). If we're going to take everything that Hagrid says as true, why don't we go for "all dark wizards are Slytherins". Hmm...wait, we know that's not true...

/me gets his copy of OotP.

It was a combined James and Sirius effort.

 

The whole situation gives more weight to Snape's idea that Harry is a do nothing fame riding idiot. The marauders and Snape had by Harry's age accomplished extraordinary things, while not under near the same dire situation. His ability to create a patronus at 13 is a testament to the fact that he is more then able to do what he puts his mind to, as well as his performance in the Triwizard tournament. It seems that Ascania is correct in that any time Harry works without his friends he preforms to much greater heights.

 

Even then though, Harry still isn't that great.

His Patronus ability doesn't come from any great skill with magic, but from his emotions. The Patronus is a spell that replies on strength of positive emotion. Harry's "power he knows not" is the power of love. Thus, he has a powerful Patronus.

As for the Tri-Wizard, lets take a look:

1st task: Gets through with a 4th year charm and flying. Not to mention he only knew of the Dragons because of Barty Crouch Jr.
2nd task: Barty Crouch Jr., via Cedric and Dobby, bails him out.
3rd task: Got through it with a few spells that, while above his age, weren't extraordinary. Again, Barty Crouch Jr. bails him out by preventing him from meeting the harder parts of the maze.

 

I think it has more to do with Potter and Black helping him and pulling him along than Wormtail's own power. Saying something about their teaching talent more than anything. It was they after all who figured it out and did it under Dumbledore's nose.

Me got his copy too. So it wasn't 4 on one like you said, and not one on one like I said. 2 on 1 then. Wonderful sourcing we both have there.

Apparently Snape wasn't always in 4 on 1 now corrected 2 on 1 scenario. Unless he went around picking fights with more than one of them at the same time. Here it suggests James Potter was his main target.

As Snape was exceptional at Potions, As was Lily, same thing was said for James, only in the area of transfiguration. And no I didn't say 'Transfiguration Master' which is a fanon concept.

 

ok,

1) I was under the impression doing a summoning charm was that distance was considered extraordinary.
2) yea not to much went down here
3) he kicks royal arse in the maze, beating out kids far above him in skills, and then goes toe to toe with Tom and holds his own.

the point is, if redhead and donkey girl had been around Harry would have needed help tieing his shoes.

I fear that we have strayed from the topic at hand and should attempt to return there. It has been established that the marauders, sans peter, plus Lily and Snape were of above average magical ability, but do we have a cannon character from that era who was just average to use as a baseline for comparison?

 

Lets go with the Fannon idea that Dark Magic is powered by emotions.

If that is so, then Harry just hasn't been applying himself to the correct sort of studies.

He could probably benift from studying under Voldemort.

 

Peter Pettigrew? Bertha Jorkins?

 

I was more impressed at how he managed to escape Voldemort and his Death Eaters, who are pretty much the most powerful you can get.

Harry's 'power he knows not' is what is kept behind the locked door at the DoM. Dumbledore said it was his heart that saved him, but he has no way to know what is actually there. Thus, it was just Dumbledore speculating.

 

I think that we can agree that both Bertha Jorkins and Peter Pettigrew were bellow average.

 

Priori Incantatem + over-confidant badguys = Luck = not impressive at all.

You'd think that, but I think we have a bit of a skewed image of what a good wizard or witch is. Remember what Fred and George said in HBP about most witches and wizards not being able to cast a Protego?

In this light, I think we can call Harry a good wizard, just not great.

On this topic, I theorise that most Wizards and Witches don't pass their NEWTs. After all, OWLs are called Ordinary Wizarding Levels. This indications that the ordinary wizard would achive only OWLs and not NEWTs. NEWTs I'd say are for the intellectual elite, like degrees in the Muggle world.

After all, after a NEWT in Transfiguration, if you can do the course, you can pretty much transfigure anything into anything else, you can conjure, animate and vanish. It seems that after NEWT in Transfiguration, there's nothing more to learn (other than maybe Animagus). Other subjects are broader, but the same concept applies (e.g. after a NEWT in Charms, you may not know every charm in the world, but you're at the level where you can understand and learn new charms without difficulty).

 

I would liken it more to American highschool and college, a highschool degree is expected and anyone with the desire and finances and go to college.

 

Hagrid didn't figure it out himself; he probably heard it from Dumbledore or just believed the rumors going around. Not every source in a story is a credible one. Rita Skeeter comes to mind. Are her articles true and canon? Or is it just canon that they're lies? Hagrid is a moron. I wouldn't trust a single word he said.

 

GCSE (O-Levels) and A-Levels more likely. While at one time the ordinary wizard and witch stop schooling after OWLs nowadays it is expected for the vast majority to go on to take their NEWTs.

 

I disagree. A NEWT in a subject demonstrates that you have mastery of that branch of magic. This is more akin to a degree than an A-Level.

 

I think the whole power level issue has been skewed horribly in the books. The only spells that Harry knows are what any average joe can find and learn from a book and yet he and his less powerful friends are able to fight their way through a dozen Death Eaters. The Death Eaters admittedly wouldn't attack Harry himself because they feared destroying the prophecy but all his other friends should have been toast in seconds. All that talk of scary dark magic and for what? One badly done curse that didn't even kill Herman?

Now, onto the actual characters.

You say Snape is so very strong but when did you see him fight and win besides against Harry or Lockhart? You never did and the only reason Snape was so great in that duel with Harry was because he was using Legilimancy which he made sure Harry_didn't'_know. And you treat dark magic as something that shows skill to be able to use. But I don't think I have ever heard of a case where dark magic is 'hard' to use and takes a whole lot of practice. I was always under the assumption that dark magic was supposed to be easy to use but powerful and the only downside is that it causes some negative effect like making your dick sag or your rage to run rampant.

And just because Sirius and James were considered the best in their class doesn't mean they're some extremely gifted prodigies. Harry's the best at DADA in his class but does he know an spells that could amaze and astound besides his Patronus? No, none at all really. Unless, of course, you like the whole 'super reducto' plot line. Then Harry could take on an army of giants and win with the 'strongest bludgeoning spell in the universe'... that just happened to be found in a school library. And Hermione is considered 'the top of her class' but what the hell does she do besides memorize book after book after book?

And I have to comment on the whole if Sirius < Bella and Bella < Snape than Sirius < Snape deal. I think a more correct way of looking at it would be that Sirius = Bella if he isn't being a cocky idiot and Snape > Anyone without Occlumency Shields and being in Azkaban has to screw with the old calmness that you need to be proficient at occlumency. We don't know if Sirius has Occlumency shields or not as he was able to dodge most of the effects as a dog but I am going to assume that Bellatrix doesn't after 14 years of being guilty as charged in Azkaban.

Now, I think that JKR made Dumbledore and Voldemort on a whole other level that only they can play at and made everyone else- even Harry- just an average joe or jane. Harry has his luck, and whatever the hell his 'power the dark lord knows not' is which will turn him into a temporary 'Dumbles and Tom level super warrior', and that's about it.

And this has nothing to do with my argument, but about Hagrid: The man has a damn good reason to be the tiniest bit biased about Slytherins. Tom Riddle completely destroyed Hagrid's life and he was the bloody Slytherin head boy. That doesn't mean that what Hagrid said should be disregarded like something that Ron would say just because he has made a few prejudice comments.

 

So according to you as soon as you graduate with a single NEWT even only with an Acceptable since that is passing you are a Master of that subject? Percy who had to get top NEWTs for his ministry job is a Master of all magical subjects he took? The Idea that you can master all things magical in not one subject but multiple by the age of 17 is ridiculous.

OWLs are more akin to graduating high school and NEWTs are more like an associate's degree maybe a bachelor's but that's pushing it I think.

 

Did I say Acceptable?

I think I need to quote myself.

I'd say that would be complete mastery.

And how is it ridiculous?

There can't really be more than a couple hundred spells in existence. And most of them are just waving a wand and saying the words in the correct manner: very few spells have a mental component.

 

It's been quite some time since I've read it, and I never intend to read it again, but in HPB didn't Snape attempt to use legilimancy on Draco but couldn't because his aunt Bellatrix had taught him occlumency? Assuming I'm remembering correctly, Bellatrix does know occlumency.

 

You remember it correctly, though one gets the feeling that she isn't quite as good at it as Snape. After all, Occlumency is all about suppression of emotions. Snape does this well, as does Malfoy. Bellatrix...does not.

 

Well Acceptable is considered passing so that is "doing the course." I guess if magic is so simple that you can master all the main aspects of it in 7 years without any prior knowledge no wonder wizards are all dumb asses.

I must just be one of the few who would like to think there is something a little more to it. If you look at some one fresh out of school with a NEWT in transfiguration and put them next to Dumbledore on paper there abilities in transfiguration are the same and that passing NEWTS is the highest academic achievement.

So to reiterate I find it hard to believe that there is nothing that someone fresh out of school with a NEWT cannot achieve in that magical branch.