But if every spell from Elder wand should do its intended task, how come Voldemort was able to block most of Dumbledore's curses in MoM?

 

Perhaps I should have chose my words more carefully. I'll re-word it:

So, Dumbledore, in the MoM, uses the Elder Wand to cast a curse. Though a mixture of the wand's power and Dumbledore's skill, this curse is effectively the best possible manifistation of that spell possible. We've seen in canon the amount that spells can vary in their successfulness, to the extent that some people can specialise in certain spells (e.g. Lockhart's Memory Charm, Andromeda Tonk's Packing charm). The Elder Wand simply makes it so that the spell is cast at its maximal greatness. However, it's still a curse, and curses are still stopped by shields.

 

I personally equate the Elder wand to something like the Gem of Amara on Buffy. Makes the wearer supposedly invincible, but the wearer can be defeated through trickery, or much much greater power. Harry had his little deux ex machina of selflessness and Voldemort's ego working for him- if he didn't, I doubt he would have been able to beat it.

 

But what about Dumbledore and Grindlewald? It says in DH that they were pretty much equal in skill, yet Dumbledore beat Grindlewald, even though Grindlewald has the Elder Wand.

The way I see this is, that once you reach Dumbledore and Grindlewald's level of skill, you're already casting your spells pretty much perfectly, and the Elder Wand was superfluous: simply something to make things easier for yourself, not something that enables you to do something that you couldn't before.

 

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HI.
Okey i have two things to say about this subject.
the first is that in regards to the question of who is stronger i think that Dumbledore is the stronger one still even though he had the Elder Wand because Voldemort did all kinds of Rituals (probably...) except the Horocruxes (sp?) stuff to make himself stronger and Dumbledore did nothing of the sort (that we know of...).
the second thing . in the book it says that You become the master of the Wand when you Defeat the Previous Master of the wand... and in all of those times they were Defeated while using the wand... (Malfoy - DD, DD - Grindelwald... etc) but when Harry Defeat Malfoy, he wasnt using the Elder Wand .... i seem to think that in this case, if you look at all the other times, the Wand shouldnt have gone to Harry.

 

... I don't think that anyone defeated the holder of the wand using the actual wand. That's the point- you have to Kill them to get to the wand.

@Taure- I pretty much agree.

EDIT @EvilSpanker-= You're right. I guess a better term is to defeat them?

 

I think that could be explained that even with the Elder Wand, Voldemort was able to fight Dumbledore on equal terms.

They were equal, the Elder Wand may have given Grindelwald a slight edge, but all it takes is one mistake. My guess is that Grindelwald made a small mistake and Dumbledore capitalized on it and defeated him.

Dumbledore didn't kill Grindelwald and yet he is the Master of the Elder Wand.

 

Perhaps the Elder Wand grants the owner extra physical benefits and amplify's the power of spells?

 

From what I understand from the book, to become the Master of the Elder Wand, you merely have to "defeat" the current Master. It appears that the possession of the Wand is completely separate from its Mastership. This is illustrated through Draco Malfoy and Harry Potter. Draco defeats Dumbledore by removing the Wand from him against his Will, since Albus desired for Snape to become Master of the Wand. After that point in HBP, Draco Malfoy never again has actual possession of the Wand itself, yet is the Master. Harry defeats Draco in a duel, disarming him and claiming Draco's wand for himself. This is enough for the Mastership of the Wand to pass to Harry, who likewise actually never has possession of the Wand until after the defeat of Voldemort. So, to gain Mastership, one must merely defeat the current Master by rendering him wandless and claiming his personal wand, whether or not it is the actual Elder Wand.

In theory, it would be possible for the Mastership of the Elder Wand to pass down from person to person to person for years without any of them ever actually touching it.

And again, I agree that it is likely that the wand acts as more than the magical focus of a normal wand, but actually as a focusing magnifier, amplifying the base power and efficiency of the spell. It also appears that once the Wand recognizes a Master (I am unsure whether or not the declaration of Mastership is necessary for the Wand to reciprocate, since we have only the single example of Harry declaring his Mastership, at which time the Wand refuses to act against him), it will not allow him to be directly harmed by spells cast from the Wand, even going to the lengths of rebounding unblockable curses back upon the caster.

For the record, I absolutely hate the idea of this wand, but the theory behind it is somewhat complex, and I am uncertain whether that is intentional or sheer dumb luck on Rowling's part.

 

I get the feeling the wand is a lot like Hogwarts in a sense. Hogwarts has been around so long and has been saturated with so much magic that the place seems to be alive. The elder wand must be at least 1,000 years old. Imagine the amount of magic that passed through the wand. I would guess that so much magic has been used with the wand that the wand has to have gained some kind of extra powers that a normal wand doesn't have. I think that is why the Elder Wand is so great and why it is so powerful.

 

I like Rita Skeeter's implication that Grindelwald sort of came quietly. I know you guys all hate slash (and I usually very much agree with the sentiment, so please don't kill me immediately), but in this case, I think it actually makes a lot of sense in canon: a homo-relationship between Dumbledore and Grindelwald. Dumbledore didn't beat Grindelwald magically, he beat him by talking him into giving up as a proof of love for him. That would mean he was defeated, but not while wielding the Elder Wand.

Similarly, the transfer of ownership to Draco occurred because Dumbledore wasn't beaten magically. He was in this stupid situation where he was disarmed by a student because of criminally neglecting his Headmaster's duties. Draco got to him feeling-wise, not magically.

Dumbledore never lost his unhealthy fascination with Dark young men, imo.

 

Okay . . . no. I read no homo-erotic subtext into the Dumbledore/Grindelwald relationship. It's more of a Professor X/Magneto type thing, where common factors (being powerful mutants for Chuck and Eric, being really damn smart and arrogant for Al and Grindy) led them into a deep respect for each other that eventually waned due to ideological differences and led to their becoming opposing figure-heads. Talking someone out of their plans for world domination by telling them you love them or telling them to prove their love for you is stupid fangirlism. Especially in two male characters.

Also, the Albus/Snape relationship is anything but homo-erotic. In DH, we see a lot of their interaction from Snape's perspective. While Albus may have always defended Snape to others, and tried to present a united front, in private he treated Snape essentially as a usefull tool. There is none of the warmth and closeness one would expect, instead it is a cold and premeditated friendship based on secrecy and deceit.

 

Well, I think the possibility is definitely implied. I'll admit that the source, Rita Skeeter, does a lot to discredit this idea, but imo she was building on stuff that has been rumoured for years. Add the insinuation that the Dumbledore-Potter relationship was kind of unhealthy, and it's rather obvious where she's going with the hanky that Grindelwald was supposed to conjure from his wand.

To remain on topic: the whole Elder Wand business can very well support the DD/GW ship reading, because the Wand is supposed to be unbeatable in an outright magical duel.

ETA: At the very least, the whole thing is an open invitation by the author to explore the idea. Meaning: Loads of slash-stuff. Personally, I don't mind genuine gay romance and I actually enjoy suppressed gay inclinations very much, but I'm a bit apprehensive about where this will be going in fandom.

 

alright here's another theory (not that I necessarily agree with it myself, it's more stuff for thought):
what if the wand is only more compatible with different wizards (as mentioned before)
AND
the belief that this wand is more powerful than any other is what really makes it special
let me explain further: it seems that magic is successful only when you believe that it can be successful and even more so when you convince yourself that you WILL be successful in your casting (Harry's patronus in PoA works because he has already seen that it will work)
therefore it only seems logical that if you believe you have the most powerful wand that will win every fight for you then you are bound to win

 

That does make sense, sal. There's a possibility that Harry was simply wrong about being the Master of the Elder Wand, and that the backfiring AK was due to the fact that he was still protected by his mother's blood, shared by Voldemort. The first time, in the forest, he didn't fight back, so the AK hit him but only killed the Horcrux. The second time, in the hall, he used Expelliarmus and sent the Curse back to the caster.

It's rather more logical than the strange ownership changes of the Elder Wand imo, but it reduces the Hallows to nothing but very stupid plot-devices.

 

Regarding the Elder Wand, I see it as a sort of enhanced focusing device - something meant to act as a superior focus for the caster's magical ability, much in the same way that a normal wand does, but with the added bonus of enabling the caster to draw on more magical power than he or she would be able to do otherwise - not all that different from the concept of an angreal and sa'angreal from Wheel of Time - ancient relics that allow their possessors to channel more of the One Power without being burned to a crisp.

As to what Sal mentioned earlier, merely believing in a spell does not necessarily guarantee its successful casting - too many variables, such as magical training level, personal skill and willpower are involved, for the explanation to ever be that simple - and the Elder Wand must have something extra to it, something that separates it from any other wand in existence, otherwise it would not have garnered such a fearsome reputation in the first place.

 

Quote:
I think the Elder Wand simply makes it so that every spell you use is succesful. Remember the Reparo that Harry uses to fix his wand at the end, which wouldn't have worked usually?

If that is true, then how did Dumbledore defeat Grindlewald? He could have used Avada Kedevra and it would be over because he could not stop it. I think it just enhances the users ability and the power of the spells greatly, and gives them more magical endurance.

Actually it says Grindlewald stole it from Gregorovich, but as he was jumping out the window, he stunned Gregorovich, initally defeating him and taking the power from it. It would be interesting to find out if the wand is more powerful if you kill as opposed to defeating the previous owner​

 

Cyrus, a lot of us have already agreed that Elder Wand=/=Better dueling skills. It is most likely that Dumbledore was just the more talented and skilled wizard and won it from Grindelwald during their duel. Just because Grindelwald had the Elder Wand doesn't mean his ability to fight increased. At most the wand made it easier to use spells and gave his spells and extra kick.

 

Hrm...Wasn't it mentioned somewhere in the book that Dumbledore and Grindelwald were equals? If that is, in fact, the case, then the fight came down to more than just talent and skill; there was doubtless no small amount of ingenuity displayed on Dumbledore's part.

Well, either that, or having the Elder Wand just made Grindelwald cocky, and Dumbledore took advantage of that.

 

We're told that, while relative to normal wizards, they're pretty much equals. However, Dumbledore was "perhaps a shade more skilled".