What drives me WILD is that Dumbledore was so *incredibly* passive about the war effort all the way 'til the day he died.

He basically owned a ruthless potions Master - how hard would it have been for Lucius Malfoy, MacNair, or Rookwood to have an "allergic reaction" to something he ate? Why couldn't the "Greatest Wizard of his Generation" manage to have someone have a very very natural accident? Diagon Alley REEKS of magic - that would mess up any forensic examination. Surely someone could choke on his food, or slip on a stone staircase?

Dumbledore BELIEVED in the Prophecy - his faith in it was absolute. Why didn't he prepare for Riddle's return? Was he really so utterly obsessed with second chances, that he'd let multiple murderers just *walk*? Greyback and Bellatrix should have been put down like the rabid animals they are.

Snape at least Really repented. He actively worked against Riddle for years, but only by passing information. AD and Snape both KNEW Riddle's inner circle, knew their trials were gross miscarriages of justice, knew that the DE were just waiting for a good excuse to torture and murder, and knew that Malfoy and the others were moving into positions of power within the Ministry, the Prophet, and Hogwarts.

The two of them went back to Hogwarts and watched it all, with their hands folded. How many people died at Lucius's or Rookwood's hand in the Second War? Voldemort rose from a cauldron, and his most powerful people rushed to his side, all ready to bathe in blood. Dumbledore had Thirteen Years to reduce the Inner Circle, but just didn't bother. Actually, I would have expected Snape to take matters into his own hands.

 

A lot of the inconsistencies used to bother me too, some still do to an extent.Rowlings work is riddled with plot holes if you take the time to look beneath the surface.

But then again if they were addressed in the book there would be no plot. If Lucius Malfoy was imprisoned after the fall of Voldemort he wouldn't have been able to slip Ginny the diary. So there goes the plot for the Chamber of Secrets out the window.

If all the Death Eaters had been rooted out Barty Couch Jr. wouldn't have been able to put Harry's name in the cup.

As for Snape, one of the things that irritated me the most about DH was his redemption. Love sick!Snape ruined his character. His death was also somewhat anti-climatic. A fork through the testicles is what he deserved not redemption.

Basically Snape and Dumbledore's inactivity seemed to be necessary for the plots of J.K. Rowlings future plots.

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Well pointed out DarklingDragon, you're right, there would have been no plot had DD whooped a pile of ass before Harry even got to Hogwarts.

A better solution would have been for JKR to not make Dumbledore into some sort of a demigod. Seriously, DD was pretty much what Harry is in a generic Super!Harry fic. The ability to see through invisibility cloaks, the Elder Wand, a pile of credentials to back up his name- Transfiguration Master, Alchemist, National Hero for kicking Grindelwald's ass. It's ridiculous. Give the guy a fault besides his want for second chances.

Edit: Not only was DD a super wizard, he knew that Voldemort was going to return, knew about the Horcruxes, and was able to cook up an overly-elaborate scheme to get Snape in Voldemort's good graces.

 

Wow, while reading this I realized what a fangirl JK was a of Dumbledore, even going as far as to make him the most overly powered character in the story that does next to nothing with his power.

Hell she even did the typical fangirlish thing and made him gay (but at least with out the whole angst/hurt relationship with Grindelwald (at least that we know of.)) This could also explain Harry/Ginny in books 6 and 7 even with little basis for it in the first five books.

 

I see what you mean about "necessary for the plot," after all, if people just TALKED to each other,"Twelth Night" would be two pages long. I shouldn't compare JKR's work with LeCarre's or Stout's - she's writing for children. The good guys can't use evil (or even dark) tactics.

JKR wrote some pretty dark concepts, though. She created THE most horrifying monster ever - Dementors.

I'd agree with you about "an overly-elaborate scheme to get Snape in Voldemort's good graces," except that after the Tri-Wizard plot NOTHING seems overly elaborate.

 

Hun, have you ever heard of the nazgul?

Face it, every peice of fantasy since JRRT has taken something from JRRT.

He's just that good.

 

The first thing that came to mind when I saw this topic title was:

"Hit it before the hair does"

 

Yes, the Nazgul were terrifying, but up until JKR, monsters just killed you. Sooner or later.

Dementors destroy the soul - the part of you that is immortal. I remember when I read "Return of the King," back when I was in High School. The Nazgul were snuffed out at the same time as their Master. The concept that someone's light could be extinguished, that someone could be ... unmade ... appalled me. But those were just eight creatures that had spent ages existing as Shadows in Sauron's great Shadow. They started as evil men, and they were corrupted further by the Ringmaker. They were assimilated wholely by Sauron. When he was destroyed, so were they.

JKR made a whole species of monster that destroy souls. They do it easily, naturally. Whenever I take a moment to wish I had magic to make my life easier, I remember that the hazards of JKR's world are nothing to sneer at.

 

Not sure of the name of it but there is a type of magic which unmakes in the Wheel of time that scares me a hell of a lot more then dementors.

 

Well, obviously passiveness was the way to go, because his plan worked out in the end - Voldemort was defeated.

Plus, he wasn't that passive: he just spent his energies chasing down the horcruxes, rather than fighting Death Eaters.

 

Balefire...

 

Yeah, that was his logic for putting a magical infant with the Dursleys. They produced a child that was physically stunted, socially inept, and a poor student - but they didn't manage to kill him. Even though Petunia actually tried to brain him with the skillet, well, she missed, right?

That old bastard kept telling Harry that they were family and they loved him "deep down." Every now and again, I go looking for revenge!Harry fics, and I always feel unsatisfied if Harry doesn't make the Dursleys suffer, too. At least JKR never tried to force Harry into some kind of grand forgiveness scene, with all of them falling into each other's arms and declaring heartwarming love for each other.

 

You know, this thread has given rise to an interesting question. That is:

Would the Harry Potter series have ended better or worse if HBP and DH had been compressed down to one volume (around 30 pages) of Dumbledore laying down the law on all those feeble Dark wizards and excercising his considerable magical muscle?

Would you prefer a short book like this, full of Dumbledore making us all aware of how pathetic Harry is, or two long books featuring Harry making us all aware of how pathetic he is?

 

Personally I would of choose the 20 page book of Dumbledore laying down the law. At least, that way, my eyes would not have bleed so much over the tripe that was book 6 and 7.

 

Remembering the Complete Waste of Space that was the middle third of book 7, I have to agree that shorter would have been FAR more satisfying.

As for Harry being pathetic - it didn't take me long to realize that the fiction I like is all about the hero being Heroic. I love a smart, savvy, and tough Harry (or whoever is the lead in a given story.) Banzai!Harry, stupid!Harry, weak!Harry are major turnoffs. Of course, I bet a high percentage of us DLP'ers are here because we want to respect him.

Interestingly enough, the stories that feature other characters DON'T tend to be about weak willed people. I've read a lot of stories featuring Hermione, a few with Ron as lead, and quite a number about Snape, and almost without exception the lead character is strong and smart.

Harry gets screwed over in every conceivable way, doesn't he?

 

Well it would have been a very short series if Dumbledore was competent. he was a great wizard, after all, not a great man.

 

That's a valid point - except for Ginny and Lily, everyone had major flaws. In fact, Ginny was TOO perfect - she came off as a Mary Sue to me.

*stops to think*

Actually, Hermione was fairly flawless - her errors were more through youth and a refusal to dumb herself down to please the people around her. Luna was really rather perfect; she was weird, but not weak or careless or cruel in any way. Mrs. Weasley was loud but loving and generous. Tonks was clumsy but sharp as a whip, and a metamorph.

It appears that JKR likes her MALE characters to have imperfections. She gives us female characters that aren't *powerful* but are interesting and useful sidekicks.

Wups, no - Petunia wasn't a positive character At All. Maybe only *magical* females are perfect? Come to think of it, Hedwig was gorgeous, fiercely loyal, and very smart for a bird. Nagini was certainly a major asset for Voldemort. Amelia Bones was a wholly admirable character.

I'll have to think about this...

 

What exactly are you really trying to say banner?Everything you have said in this thread has been said countless times on this forum. If your looking to discuss it further theres no need. What could possibly be said that hasn't been said before?

 

I was venting my frustration about the way a civil war could have been prevented (or VASTLY shortened and delayed.) I really really want to love Dumbledore, but as the HP series progressed he became more of a source of irritation to me.I was also having fun talking to the other posters.

I mean no offense to anyone, especially not the mods. As for wasting your time, well, it's yours to waste.

 

Banner, face it. Dumbledore would lose a war between the modern-day US and the Roman Empire. A baby won the first war, and the second war was only won because he died. I bet you anything he just talked Grindelwald into sleeping with him, chaining him to the bedposts and saying, "this'll get your juices flowing, love...

Seriously what the fuck? Beedle the Bard? Just tell Hermione that while you're alive, you ancient fuck!

That old bastard kept telling Harry that they were family and they loved him "deep down."

It's official. Dumbledore is officially the worst war leader, teacher, and general wizard of all time. Fucking Molly Weasley would have been able to fight the war better than him.

I hate canon!Harry, who wins through sheer dumb luck. Where's the murders? Where's the morally gray torture scenes? Where's the "jumping from a freight train onto a moving car" moment?

Trust me, Harry should have been blowing up Knockturn Alley, killing DEs at will, and generally kicking ass, rather than wandering around Britain in a magical tent. Or at the very least, he should have been getting some action.