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Paintings and other plotholeish things.

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by Bratling, Jan 24, 2008.

  1. Demons In The Night

    Demons In The Night Chief Warlock

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    If it were up to the fangirls, they would have him survive just to get with Hermione. Seriously, there's an epidemic of post DH Snape/Hermione stories on FF.net.
     
  2. The Doctor

    The Doctor Unspeakable

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    And here I was, thinking that Post-Epilogue H/Hr stories were stupid.:wall:

    Edit: I demand links! Such a crappy idea must be full of lulz.
     
    Last edited: Jan 25, 2008
  3. Bratling

    Bratling Professor

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    I'm really not fond of those. I just can't see the charm in the pairing. Make him wash his hair and then foist him off on some poor OC if you must pair him with someone. I prefer him alone. Don't get me wrong, I think that Snape is a really interesting character. I just can't see him in a romance with much of anybody.
     
  4. The Paper Blade

    The Paper Blade First Year

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    Due to your training as an artist? I'm sure.

    True, acrylic gesso wasn't available until 1955. True, the primer most commonly used for canvas (today) is acrylic gesso. Therefore, you believe that canvas was used for nothing but sailcloth until 1955, because oil paints would eat away at a canvas that wasn't primed.

    Note that a couple others have already pointed that there have, in fact, been oil on canvas paintings before 1955. Canvas became popular during the Renaissance. Oil on canvas paintings created before 1955 remain in existence this very day. How have they not been eaten away by the oil paints they support?

    Rabbit-skin glue was used to size the canvas for priming. An oil-based primer was used to prime the canvas for painting. Oil paints were used to paint the canvas for a finished work described as "oil on canvas".

    In short, the Fat Lady could have been painted using muggle materials, and it still wouldn't have been a plot hole/irrelevant error on the part of the author. Although judging by a few of the replies you've gotten, no one would be surprised if it was. I guess that just goes to show how many errors there are in Harry Potter without making any up.
     
  5. vlad

    vlad Banned ~ Prestige ~

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    Back on to the topic...

    My own personal ability of knowing people's names after I've had classes with them for five years allowed me to find it odd that in OOTP, when Harry saw a group of Jr. Death Eaters scowling at him, he needed Hermione to point out that the fourth boy was called Theodore Nott.
     
  6. Helius

    Helius Third Year

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    I don't remember half the people I've had classes with especially those not part of my main subject classes :)

    Isn't Theodore only in Harry's Care of Magical Creatures class and not a really annoying guy like Malfoy? It wouldn't be too hard to forget a name like that.

    A couple of other things that irked me:

    At the beginning of HBP where Harry gets stunned - why doesn't Malfoy take his opportunity and kill Harry or take his invisibility cloak instead of leaving him? Though, I guess it'll be fail if that did happen.

    The two way mirror - Why doesn't Harry use it? And why risk his life and break into Umbridge's office to use the Floo, when there's a much easier way?
     
    Last edited: Jan 25, 2008
  7. The Doctor

    The Doctor Unspeakable

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    He forgot about it.

    Vlad has already inferred that Harry's memory is not his best attribute.
     
  8. Helius

    Helius Third Year

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    Surely Harry's memory isn't so bad that he can forget about something important to him? I think that it's a plot hole created by the whole "lets go to the Ministry because of some random Dreams" that has to happen in OotP.
     
    Last edited: Jan 25, 2008
  9. Randeemy

    Randeemy Headmaster DLP Supporter

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    Ha. Yes... As if Harry didn't know who Nott was. Was it not the same when they met in the Hogs Head to organise the DA
     
  10. The Doctor

    The Doctor Unspeakable

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    I suggested in some thread or other that Dumbles should just destroy the copy of the prophecy residing in the DoM. But no, that would have required common sense!:rolleyes:

    Hermione would have made a much better Boy- sorry, Girl-Who-Lived. But of course, you have to remove the canon boot-licking she does for any authority figure. She was showing signs of progress in OOtP, but then HBP came out.

    And she suffered a head injury that caused her to lose 100 IQ points. Off-screen, of course.

    Eh. /rant.
     
  11. kpayne

    kpayne Squib

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    I knew the name of almost everyone I graduated with and definitely anyone I had a class with. There were 200 people in my class, not 40.

    Theodore was a Snake, so he was at least in Potions, every year. I'd say that was a major class. Dedalus Diggle bowed to him in a shop before he knew about magic, and Harry brought it up when they met in the Leaky Cauldron. So it's a poor writing to me to make him forget Nott. Or Blaise, or anyone he has classes with. I can understand JKR not mentioning him in the book until needed, but not for Harry not knowing him.

    Malfoy can easily say that Harry fell and hurt himself, he can't easily justify taking the cloak. That's all I've got for that.

    Sirius gave Harry the mirror as a present, to use to get in contact with him. Harry didn't want to place Sirius in jeopardy, so not only did he not open it to find out what it was and he made an active attempt to forget it by hiding it in his trunk and never looking for it.
     
  12. Banner

    Banner Dark Lady

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    OK, here's another major plot hole:

    At the battle of the Department of Mysteries, Harry cast the cruciatus curse on Bellatrix Lestrange. No one EVER mentioned that. It seems utterly inconceivable that a battle between Voldemort himself, a dozen Death Eaters, Dumbledore, and six school children wouldn't call down a major investigation, but in canon, Harry was never even interviewed, let alone had his wand checked. Do you actually believe that Bellatrix kept her mouth shut? She thought it was funny! If the DE had been on the ball, they would have leaked that information to the investigating team. Or the newspapers. Harry would have been expelled, at the very least. I doubt he would have been jailed (he's a minor and was in immediate fear for his life,) but the repercussions should have been severe.

    Moreover, the kids' major offensive spell is stupefy. There are much better spells for our purposes. If Harry was *thinking* in that cold, clear spot that only triggers in combat, then he (and his friends) would have cast Fire spells. Hermione could cast a fire spell just a few months into First Year: it should have been well within the ability of all of the Ministry Six. Those hurt, and Also Do Damage. An emotion-driven Incendio on Bellatrix wouldn't have been a laughing matter. The DE wouldn't have been waking each other up. Picture Lucius with his wand and wand hand reduced to ashes. The Death Eaters would have been put down hard.
     
    Last edited: Jan 25, 2008
  13. Lincos

    Lincos Professor DLP Supporter

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    Bratling, sorry I didn't even think of looking at the gender field. My bad.
     
  14. Banner

    Banner Dark Lady

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    This one occurred to me about 2am. (I hate that - I always have to get up and make notes, or I forget whatever it was.) When Harry's family was attacked, everyone thought that Peter was killed, right? Therefore, the Fidelius on the property should have fallen. But Sirius was Secret Keeper, and HE was certainly in no position to tell the Secret. Why didn't anyone notice that the property was still hidden?

    The investigating team, reporters, tourists, and thieves - none of them should have been able to access the murder scene, if they Weren't Told By The Secret Keeper. Therefore the Keeper was alive.

    Canon is clear - Dumbledore cast the Fidelius, but HE couldn't tell the location (otherwise, no one would need a third party to hold the Secret.) How did Hagrid get there? Did Dumbledore drop the Fidelius immediately after the attack, before he even knew what happened?
     
    Last edited: Jan 28, 2008
  15. Rahkesh Asmodaeus

    Rahkesh Asmodaeus THUNDAH Bawd Admin DLP Supporter

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    For the Crucio one: I think Bellatrix was focused more on the punishment Voldemort dealt her after the DoM than in a weak Cruciatus Curse thrown by Harry Potter. Plus, the whole year the Daily Prophet had been besmirching Harry's name, and suddenly in one fell swoop, it was proven that he had been telling the truth all along. Do you think any reporter would act on that information? No one would have believed anything anyone said against Harry Potter after that

    What's to say the Fidelius falls after the Secret Keeper dies? It would be pathetically easy to get the information out of him then, all you would need to do it kill the Secret Keeper and you're home free. And what's to say Peter didn't just drop it himself? Or Voldemort himself might've broken the charm in the process of burning the house down. That in turn would have caused everyone who knew where James and Lily lived to suddenly remember their address and location, which would obviously mean that the secret was broken. This could also explain how everyone knew so quickly about Voldemort's defeat.
     
  16. Mordecai

    Mordecai Drunken Scotsman –§ Prestigious §– DLP Supporter

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    Or perhaps the act of betrayal dropped the charm. If its based on trust, as the name suggests, then betrayal in the knowledge that it will lead to certain death could cancel out the charm.
     
  17. Banner

    Banner Dark Lady

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    Noo ... that doesn't work. If the Fidelius had failed *before* the attack, Dumbledore (who cast the spell and (presumably) was maintaining it) as well as the Potters would have felt it. Given even a matter of a few minutes' warning, the result would have been very different. For one thing, Lily would *certainly* have grabbed the baby and left - probably Apparating to a prearranged bolt-hole, or possibly the local Auror station. If James had had any time at all, he could have called for help.

    I wonder why the Potters (an old and wealthy family) didn't have even one house-elf? A house-elf would have as one of its tasks, the command that if the Fidelius falls, he would take a prewritten message to Dumbledore. *I* would command the elf to protect and care for my baby son at all costs. Even if it couldn't engage in combat against wizards or teleport with the child, it seems quite reasonable that the elf could grab Harry and portkey or physically run to a prearranged safe spot.

    Quoted from Sree:
    Ah - one of the aspects of the Secret HAS to be that people would forget that there WAS a secret, or at least dim their memories of it. Sirius switched with Pettigrew to provide an extra layer of cover for the Potter family, but if it was THAT obvious, the only real protection would have been for the Secret Keeper to disappear, also - probably by leaving the country.
     
    Last edited: Jan 28, 2008
  18. Bratling

    Bratling Professor

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    You're forgetting DH canon, though. According to DH, when the secret keeper dies, in effect everyone who knew shares the secret. All of them become the keepers. That still leaves a huge hole as to why the general public could see the Potters' destroyed house as the keeper was still alive and wasn't talking.

    I also wonder about that, Banner. Myself, I think it's that the Godric's Hollow cottage wasn't the main house. Perhaps it was a summer cottage or something. If you'll look at DH again, there don't seem to be any other Potters in the graveyard other than James and Lily. One would think that James's parents, at least, would be there if they'd died nearby. Also strange that JKR has labeled Hannah Abbott as a muggleborn, yet there are Abbotts in the Godric's Hollow graveyard...
     
    Last edited: Jan 28, 2008
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