A plot bunny that needs some help

Summary: What if Dumbledore stayed with Grindelwald after Ariana's death?

They became Dark Lords of Europe with Grindelwald confining himself to Europe while Dumbledore is concerned with England. They are looking for the Elder Wand.

Tom Riddle is the first Chosen One and the Headmaster of Hogwarts and his destiny is to defeat Grindelwald. But he goes secretly dark and is planning to take his place. Harry Potter is the second Chosen One after Dumbledore murdered his family.

No slash or HG i was thinking of HPLB or playboy Harry.

Please let me know what you think and add some improvements please. Thanks

 

I do see this working, but only if some alterations/stipulations were made, and an author with excellent characterization skills took it up.

What I'd like to see is a role reversal. Dumbledore becomes the dark lord, and Tom Riddle becomes the Headmaster of Hogwarts. But the author taking it up would have to remember that just because Dumbledore becomes the dark lord, that doesn't make him Voldemort or Rating!Raving!Crazy!Manipulative!Dumbledore. Dark-Lord-Dumbledore would do things a lot differently then Voldemort did. How he would do them, is up for the author to decide, but my bet would be a lot subtler and smarter then Voldemort.

The same thing goes for Tom Riddle. Tom, when sane, does things a hell of a lot differently then Dumbledore, and the same would go for being the headmaster of Hogwarts. He is a Slytherin. He is ruthless. He is ambitious, and he is not compassionate. He would treat Harry, and he would handle Hogwarts, a lot differently then Dumbledore did.


Since the whole appeal of this challenge is in the role reversal, the author would have to have excellent characterization skills for it to work. They'd have to be really careful not to fall into the trap of writing Dumbledore as a crazier watered down version of Voldemort, and the same goes for Tom Riddle. It should also be taken into account that with Dumbledore as the dark lord, things would not have necessarily gone the same path-- maybe Dumbledore wouldn't have attacked the Potters, maybe he would have. But that, too, would likely have happened differently.

If by playboy Harry you mean Harem!Harry, then a big emphatic no. Romance, imo, would have to take a secondary importance, if it is at all to be featured.

EDIT: In my version of it, Tom Riddle wouldn't go evil necessarily. I don't think that he'd be the leader of the light, but him going evil is just setting it up for a typical Manipulative!Dumbledore, Evil!Crazy!Voldemort story. What happens from there is up to the author to decide, but Evil!Riddle seems kind of pointless to me.

 

It definitely has potential; it won't be a one-story fic though (unless 60 chapters is your thing)

As far as relationships, I think that the story could have so many twists and subplots that a pairing might take away from it. A school run by Dumbledore nearly killed Harry every year in the regular series; a school run by Voldemort will be helluva challenge to survive, much less get a good shag in.

 

It's an interesting "what if" idea, but I think the idea is too broad to turn into a story. You don't really have a plot there, just: "There's a big war. Stuff happens."

You need a more specific, character-driven plot that's set to the backdrop of a war, rather than trying to depict the war in it's entireity.

 

F*King lies!!! You blasphemer!

I agree with Taure here, the idea is intriguing; but there isn't enough to go off of yet. You need to be more thorough, outline more, and give us more details on what you plan to do.

 

Let's try to outline the characters and the changes there would be:


Dumbledore the Dark Lord

How would he be?
The best thing would be to write him smart and subtle. A good written Manipulative!Dumbledore, if you want.
He definitely wouldn't go on a killing spree or crucio his followers for no good reason. You have to keep in mind, that he does everything because he thinks that it is the right thing to do. Killing would be his last option. He probably would try to manipulate politics and common opinions at first.
He also wouldn't slaughter the muggles.
He would rather try to restrict them and their rights "for their own good." Maybe some kind of "muggle-watch" in every big city: Sheriff-like wizards who control the muggles.

Who would be his followers?
Definitely not your default Death-Eater. No brutes and no bullies. No Crabbe and Goyle Senior in the higher ranks.
I could see Snape or Lucius Malfoy as hie right hand: Both are good actors.

What would he want?
The greater good of course.
And what is that? A world like Orwell's 1984: He controls everything because he knows best what is good for everyone - muggles and wizards alike. The wizards would have more rights, of course.


The magical and muggle world


Dumbledore had enough time to implement at least a big part of his plans, so he would probably already have control over the ministry and the press.
There surely would be a sort of a resistance and for your idea to work at least some people in Hogwarts would have to be part of it.

Hogwarts herself would look completely different:

The Staff

McGonnagal - Most likely part or even the head of the resistance.

Flitwick - The same

Hagrid - Would most likely not be there, because if TR opened the chamber in this timeline, Dumbledore wouldn't have given him shelter in Hogwarts. If TR didn't open it, Hagrid would probably drive the knight bus.

Snape - Dumbledore's spy in Hogwarts. He would be essentially the same, come to think of.

Trelawney - That depends on if she made the prophecy about Harry in front of TR. (Who made the prophecy about TR anyway?)
I see a few options:
1) She made both prophecies (we don't know how old she is) and Dumbledore kept her near after she made the first on. That would make for an interesting twist, because now the enemy knows the prophecy and the Hogwarts Headmaster doesn't.
2) She made Harry's prophecy in front of Riddle and he kept her in Hogwarts like Dumbledore.
3) She made Harry's prophecy in front of Riddle and he killed her just to be sure.


The Houses
I could see houses based on purity of blood. The muggleborns need guidance and safekeeping after all.


Tom Riddle the Headmaster

He would need to lay down most of the time because otherwise he would be removed. (That means no snake-face!) Behind closed doors however he would be far more ruthless and downright evil than Dumbledore.

All the intelligent wizards and witches would be on Dumbledores side or in the resistance, so he has an awful recruiting problem. He's got people like Crabbe and Goyle en masse, but very few that are good at politics, research etc.

He could, however, work with the resistance, pretending
to work for the same thing - the downfall of Dumbledore and freedom for all wizardkind.



Thats enough brainstorming for now...I'll probably add some thoughts to Harry himself and the plot later on.

 

What about behind-the-scenes abuses of muggleborn students?

Who knows about the Hallows, and where is the Cloak?

If AD killed the Potters, is this public knowledge, and where was the baby placed? Did he grow up with the Dursley's after all?

A Dark Headmaster would be using potions in the food and wide-effect spells to influence/mind-control the students, unless the school itself has some sort of protections in place, unbreakable by the Headmaster.

 

Hagrid as Knight Bus driver? Hah, he can't fit in the thing. Besides, he's only useless because he didn't finish school, which he could with the whole Chamber of Secrets element removed.

With Riddle as headmaster, I doubt muggleborns would even be allowed to attend Hogwarts, full stop. Unless it's a larger version of how Harry grew up at the Dursleys: half-to-Pure blooded students educated in Hogwarts proper, while muggleborns are rounded up and "educated" (read: kept subservient) in the dungeons of Hogwarts.

 

If you wanted to pull this project off, you'd need a very talented writer, a damn good storyline, and a lot of rabid readers. The Only way I can see this working is to make a trilogy of it.

Book 1: Dumbledore and Grindelwald meet, take a liking to each other, and begin to take over the world, muggle and magical, for the greater good. The author would need to show the seduction of Dumbledore's morals, making him more brutal while keeping him subtle, manipulative, and brilliant. The prophecy about Riddle would need to be made in Dumbledore's presence, preferably with him keeping it from Grindelwald, and the book would end with Riddle's birth.

Book 2: Young adult Tom Riddle would face off against the Dark Lord Grindelwald, keeping the man's research and claiming his assets for his own(both tools and spies/associates). Along the way, he begins his ascent as a Dark Lord in his own right, leaving his post as Hogwarts Headmaster to begin his quest for world domination...and ridding the magical world of Muggleborn in the name of Pureblood Supremacy. Either Dumbledore or Riddle is presented with a new prophecy made about Harry Potter during the war for supremacy between Dumbledore and Riddle. End the story with the murder of the Potters, and either DD or Riddle being destroyed when attacking Harry.

Book 3: Harry Potter begins his magical ascent as a powerful young wizard with a prophecy he doesn't know looming over his head. After several attempts on his life, each nearly killing him, and making him stronger, he plunges into the war headfirst, eventually having to join forces with either DD or Riddle (depending on which has the corporeal form), find a way through the manipulations, and destroy one, or both factions, leading the magical world in some form of peace...or not. End the book with Harry either living the life he wanted before the madness, or with him planting his own people around the magical world, giving him some measure of control (though not absolute)...for the greater good.

Of course, that's just how I see it working out. It could be a really stupid idea, but it seems to have some merit in my own eyes. The biggest problem would be the first two stories aren't Harry-centric, and many readers wouldn't be very interested for that reason.

 

Thanks for all the reviews much appreciated. So what about Horace Slughorn would he fit in the story? I read in HBP that Tom Riddle was a favorite of Slughorn's. Anyway Headmaster Riddle could use the Slug club to bring the best wizards under his control while telling the resistance he is teaching them skills to fight Dumbledore. Another thing should Snape be loyal to Dumbledore or can he play both sides? Just some thoughts

 

Since you're making Dumbledore the one who murdered Lily Potter (if you still wanna play up that lurvve story), you can have him faithful to Voldemort but spying on Dumbledore, or faithful to his own cause. Slughorn could be Voldemort's new Pettigrew: he'd fit into that "unwilling Death Eater" role perfectly. He's smart/capable enough to carry out orders, has a few pretty useful talents, and spineless enough to fear the repercussions of not joining Voldemort. If you keep the basic character traits that make up Slughorn, however, you have the archetypal Slytherin - he knows how to look out for himself and grease the right palms when necessary. So would HE end up turning on Voldemort, whether to save his own skin or free himself from Voldemort's grip? Lots of potential here.

 

Magic can make small rooms very large.

I give you that. If Tom Riddle hasn't opened the chamber, that is.
I can't, however, picture Hagrid as a very good wizard besides taking care of magical creatures, so he probably would end up in a dragon reservate or something like that.

That depends on how much influence Dumbledore has in Hogwarts. And I think it would be much, given that Riddle was most certainly made Headmaster while Dumbledore was already in power.
Banning the muggleborns from Hogwarts would alienate Dumbledore as well as the resistance.


A few more ideas:

Harry and the Potters

The first question is: Why the hell would Dumbledore murder the Potters and try to murder Harry?
If Harry is chosen to defeat him and Dumbledore knows it (see my first post), he would try to get him on his side, manipulate him or put him under close watch. You have to explain this very carefully.
You can't just make him a second Voldemort for god's sake!

Maybe he could have tried to get to him but Harry was hidden away. But why if noone knew the prophecy besides Dumbledore? Snape giving it to TR?

Give us some more information on how you want to pull this of, David. What should be Harry's background?
Something we can work with - it's your idea after all.


The Plot...

...would have to be completely different. There is no use in retelling the old story.
There is no Voldemort sticking in Quirrels head and Harry isn't a Parselmouth.
What about Sirius, David? What do you want to do with him?

At first you need a good setup, then you can think of the details of a plot.

And as for the Playboy!Harry:
Don't!
Just don't fucking do that except you're a virgin fanboy writing smut or have exceptional writing skills to make it believable...

 

What's the policy on students with creature ancestry (veela, giant etc.)? Or on a student from a squib heritage?

 

Thanks for these ideas. I was thinking that Dumbledore was there when he heard the Prophecy about TR. But he kept it from his partner in crime Grindelwald in order to be only reigning Dark Lord. As for the Potters they were high up in the resistance and they had one of the Hallows the Cloak which i think was a Hallow in DH. So they had to go into hiding but the man they picked Sirius Black to be the Secret Keeper betrayed them to Dumbledore. Also Dumbledore wanted to kidnap Harry and bring him up to his weapon against TR but Sirius took the child and went on the run from his former master. How are these ideas? please as always add improvements.

 

Going back to why Dumbledore would attack the Potter's, if Snape was actually playing with his own motives, and was double-crossing Riddle and Dumbledore...If he was the one who heard the Prophecy about Potter, he could tell Riddle one half, and Dumbledore the other. Leading Riddle unsure as to which Dark Lord its talking about, and Dumbledore could attack the Potter's pre-emptively, believing it would be for the greater good if someone with the potential to overthrow him, wasn't allowed to come into play. (That is, if Riddle is taking over Grindlewald's place, does Dumbledore know?)

However, if Dumbledore does know, he could attack the Potter's believing it to be talking about him.

The Prophecies Themselves


What would the one about Riddle look like, and considering the situations would be different, what would Potter's look like? His parent's probably wouldn't have "defied the dark lord thrice" or whatever. Not to mention it'd be boring if the same prophecy was involved.

On that note, I think this plot bunny has good potential, but only in the hands of and exceptional writer...




EDIT: I missed the post above. Can you explain why Sirius would kidnap Harry right after betraying the Potter's to Dumbledore? Did he find out about the Hallow's, or did he envy James for having Lily, and in his delusions believed Harry to be his own son? Just reading "Sirius kidnapped Harry after leaving Dumbledore minutes after telling him where the Potter's were hiding" doesn't make much sense. On that note as well, if Dumbledore is after them, and Riddle is a Dark Lord rising, who put them under the Fidelius?

And out of curiosity, where are Pettigrew and Lupin during all this? Are they helping Dumbledore, Riddle, or are they running off with Sirius?

 

Thanks for your post and i believed that Sirius was jealous of James's fortunes and getting Lily who he secretly fancied and turned to Dumbledore. Also about Sirius kidnapping Harry well i thought that maybe Sirius would want to use Harry to defeat Dumbledore, Voldemort and become the power behind the throne. As for Lupin he is on Dumbledore's side and i am not really sure about Pettigrew. Tom Riddle is a covert Dark Lord only a few trusted people know he has gone dark and he was the one who did the charm for the Potters.

I think the way i presented Sirius ties in with canon in POA. He was seen just as bad as Voldemort if i remember. Thanks for the ideas about Snape and please suggest improvements for this.

 

You could have Riddle and Dumbledore attack the Potters at the same time. Riddle would attack them as he heard the prophecy from Trelawney, believing himself to be the one it's referring to. Dumbledore would also attack them, as he wants the invisibility cloak for himself.
A duel would erupt between the two of them, and you could have James and Lily get killed in the crossfire. In the confusion Sirius could grab Harry and leave.

 

Wow. Very nice idea's. I'd love to read this if it ever came out and was written by an excellent writer.

 

Wouldn't it be easier to leave Ariana alive? Then Albus would never have broken up with Grindelwald in the first place. It'd also make Albus' character more human if you show her safety as the self-justification for his actions, at least initially.