Right then.

Not going to claim this is some uber-awesome idea. Just a mutant plotbunny that popped up.

Harry was whisked away by...hell, you pick, I don't know. He's raised in the muggle world, and is a member in high standing of a gang. After his letter arrives, he treats it with disbelief and is only convinced by a blatant display of magic.

Don't care when the story takes place, and you can pick the pairing.

One thing only.

Harry has a gun. He is NOT afraid to use it. Think about it. The magical world has no laws on gun control. Children in the MW are allowed access to deadly weapons at the age of ELEVEN. Younger if their parents have a wand. Harry does not have to be a gangster. I loathe that stereotype with a passion. Instead, he is the classic "aristocratic criminal", intelligent and well aware of his actions and their repercussions.

Where in the prophecy did it say he had to hex Voldemort? Think. Keep Voldy on his toes with spells, then cap him with a bullet between the eyes.

Kneecapping Malfoy upon arrival at Hogwarts is a bonus.

 

No.

1. You'll meet many people on these forums - myself included - who believe that magic is far superior to technology and that there are a variety of magical options open to those who wish to defend themselves from guns and other Muggle weapons.

2. Voldemort is immortal. Even if you shot him successfully between the eyes, he'd still be able to come back via horcruxes.

3. If Harry is of such skill that he can "keep Voldemort on his toes with spells" then he is in no need of a gun. He can just kill him with spells.

4. Horribly unoriginal. You are by far from the first person tho think of killing Voldemort with a gun.

5. The idea does not make sense at all. Firstly, there is no reason why there would be no weapon laws in the magical world, especially considering that this is the UK where guns are banned. And even if the magical world did allow guns, where would Harry get one from? There are practically no gun shops in the UK.

6. The idea is inconsistent. You say that Harry has grown up in the Muggle world. You then say he has a gun, justifying this by saying that in the magical world they're allowed. But if Harry has grown up in the Muggle world rather than the magical world, then he grew up under Muggle laws, not magical laws, so should not be able to have a gun.

 

I disagree. I'm pretty sure there are shield charms to stop bullets. And what will Harry do then? And I'm also sure he'll get in trouble if he harms people, with or without magic.
[/Edit]Hmm, Taure was faster and with better reasons^^

 

The idea that The Power He Knows Not could mean muggle technology, muggle handguns, muggle sex lubricant, et cetera, is not exactly a new one.

I get a definite vibe from DLP in general (and, yes, I know generalizations are dangerous things to make) that they're tired of guns in HP. I don't mind them if they're used with some logic but there have been quite a few stories where the characters brandish them and toss them about willy-nilly.
Of course, many here also strongly believe that magic can do nearly anything and muggles are insignificant specks (Hello Taure).

The notion a lot of writers use, that most wizards wouldn't recognize a gun, is sort of laughable too. I mean, guns were a big deal when they were invented. Anything that gave the muggles a new and improved method of killing from a distance would have been noticed by magical folk. Especially the ones that believe in wizard superiority.

Even if the only thing a wizard was taught about guns was 'here is a description of a firearm, avoid them at all costs', I still believe they'd get some warning about them from parents and educators.

I doubt they'd allow guns on Hogwarts grounds for two reasons.

1: It's a dangerous weapon and, as I said, I believe they would know what guns are.

2: The pro-pureblood people in the government and among the school governors would not want something so patently muggle, something that threatens the notion of muggle inferiority, into the school.

Edit:

Just to play devil's advocate here for a moment: The idea is that he was in a gang and that's why he has a gun. I think you'll find many guns wind up in the hands of people involved in illegal activities, when normally they shouldn't be able to have them.

 

Harry would have to make sure that the gun worked properly in a high magic area. Canon states that magic causes catastropic failure in electronic equipment. Would chemical reactions be unaffected?

 

Plus, we know that "Muggle Artifacts" are strictly controlled. Like the Muggle world treats drugs.

You also have the problem of the idea that Magical people have some sort of innate magical protection mechanism against harm from mundane means, both in the form of natural resistance and convenient accidental magic occurring to save them.

 

If the same spell that repells rain can repells bullets; maybe with a little power when cast, of course, then a gun becomes quite useless. A gun works once in a fight, after that every death eater will take precautions before raiding.

Magic > Muggle weaponry.

Canon magic, in very largue quantities (like in Hogwarts) will cause electronic devices to fail. It never mention magic not compatible with mecanic or chemical device... the Ford Anglia being the proof. It's not Dresden magic.

 

It would work, considering they have Potions classes (even if those aren't based on true chemical reactions...)

But yeah, guns in HP have been done, to death. The only partially acceptable way I'd see a gun coming into play would be using it to kill a werewolf - silver bullets and all that rot.

As for Voldemort? He was raised in an orphanage, he knows what a fucking gun looks like. He'd use the 'Arresto Momentum' charm on the gun, and watch the bullets come at him nice and slow-like, Matrix-style.

Or he'd just blow the fucking thing up; guns, unlike wands, can't shield from attacks.

Back to the drawing board, chuckles.

 

You made an interesting point EVERY author forget. It's the passive magic; one that can save someone if they're thrown from a very high place, like in Neville's case, or nearly every Quidditch players. Nobody would be playing Quidditch if the fatality rate was that high, and seeing how easy it's to fall of a broom, crash against something, etc.

That may be also one of the reason they disdain muggles so much. They ARE superior to them; they don't have cancers, they live longer, they are resistant to most things where a simple Muggle would succumb.

 

It is possibly the worst idea of all time. Why do people put, or would want to put people in gangs. It is about the most unindependant thing you could do to Harry's character. There are plenty of fics out their where Harry gets adopted by some underworld leader and they're all shit...

 

Even saying that the spell needs to be more powerful is debatable. This is magic, so the laws of motion do not apply. Thus, the idea that an equal and opposite force is needed to stop something is not true when applied to magic. So the Impervious could just as well repel bullets. So long as it was cast with bullets in mind of course, rather than rain.

But this isn't the Wizard vs. Muggle thread, so meh. There are a lot of other, less debatable, reasons why this challenge sucks.

Yeah. Plus, if magic began to mess with chemical reactions, then humans would begin to not work at Hogwarts too.

 

I chuckled at this, but a few seconds later I thought "But then again, humans couldn't work at Hogwarst" as the body is kind of a battery; electric signals pass through nerves, the whole nervous system is based on electricity, so is the Heart who generate (weak) EMP's...

 

And we're off to the races!

Muggles vs Wizards thread, Take 100034 *clack*

Sigh...

Still, the authors of that article did seem to be under the impression that no normal human would possibly survive a 20 foot fall. 20 feet? Tell that to a skydiver whose 'chute didn't open.

Also, Hagrid's comment (not exactly a reliable source) about the absurdity of the Potters dying in a car accident could be written off as the words of someone who knows James and Lily didn't own a car and wouldn't or have been in one. Or it could have been simply because he knows the truth, that they died sacrificing their lives to save their son from the Dark Lord, so he finds the notion they died in a run of the mill car crash to be both absurd and insulting. Like if I told you a famous war hero actually died from huffing modeling glue instead of on the field of combat.

In regards to wizards being more durable than muggles: Perhaps, but a bullet through the brain or heart would still probably kill one, accidental life-saving magic or not.

That's a big 'if' and not one that was proven in canon. It repels water for fuck's sake.

While we're at it, the Imperturbable Charm has only been shown to prevent eavesdropping, not 50mm rifles.

I don't think we've been shown enough to know that this is true across the board. Assuming that it is true, Wizards have already shown themselves to be incredibly moronic in general and thus easily out-maneuvered. Also, since the vast majority of wizards can't seem to cast a simple shield charm, any bullet-blocking spell would also be beyond the typical wizard.

And only at Hogwarts. If the Ministry and Diagon Alley don't cause electronic disturbances, even a powerful wizard isn't going to fry electronics with his or her Lumos, no matter how well-cast or exceptional it is.

And as was said before, most guns don't have electronics in them and thus wouldn't be subject to the peculiarities of the anti-electronics field around Hogwarts. If a revolver or even a semi-automatic handgun couldn't work at the school, neither could spring-driven clocks. Maybe all the bells and whistles on an OICW wouldn't work at Hogwarts but most firearms would.

 

The same incantation is used in DH to repel the burning coins, so we know that it applies to other physical objects too. Unfortunately for Hermione, she thought of the spell too late and they had already been pretty badly burnt.

The Imperturbable charm only had the effect of stopping eavesdropping because it prevented the Extendable Ears from getting near the door (repelling a physical object), as shown by the fact that it also causes Dungbombs to soar away from it.

 

See, I'm not trying to be an ass here, but Taure, get off the high horse.

If I line up a Muggle and a wizard, then shoot both of them in the head, I doubt some damn shield charm will stop the 9mm from pasting their brains on the wall. As for why use a gun: Iff you keep him on his toe, the Avada Kedavra becomes unnecessary. It takes effort and hate to cast the AK, whereas to use an AK, just point and curl your finger.

And you forget, guns have adjustable firing rates. Some guns can blast through 25 inches of rolled steel with ease. Hell, while we're at it, I guess Taure means you have to kill someone with a spell. After all magic is the answer to everything. Severed your arteries? No problem, we'll just use some nifty stitching charm. Your head get chopped off? That's ok, we'll just reattach it and perform some complex soul magic ritual that destroys all the laws of physics to recombine soul and body. God. Take the idea of guns in HP and run with it, guys. Figure out a doable use for it. And don't start smacking me down for having a stupid idea. The whole point of posting ideas here is to refine them and get better at writing.

God.

 

There is no high horse. There is only rational debate, and your allergy to it.

Unfortunately for you, your doubt is no basis for argument. You need either supporting evidence or reason, such as this:

Avada Kedavra has no magical defence. Guns have several.

See above reasoning about how the laws of motion do not restrict to magic.

Not everything, but far more things than Muggle technology.

We know limbs can be reattached, unless they were removed by Dark magic.

This is effectively what Voldemort did in the graveyard...

And I also find it amusing that you're using the words "soul" and "physics" as part of the same argument.

There's what we're doing. We're refining your idea. It just so happens that it needs refining to the point of non-existence. If you can't take the heat, don't ask for opinions/criticism.

 

Truth.

But does the wizard in question have their wand? If so, read my above post as to what that wizard could possibly do. I'm not saying magic will absolutely beat a gun to the draw, but someone who can use a wand has a hellluva lot more options.

Even if that wizard doesn't have a wand, they could apparate away - no mamby pamby blood rituals or sewing charms necessary. Guns can't cast anti-apparation wards. Unless you did beforehand, which means you're greatest asset is still magic.

Or I'd apparate behind you and snap your neck, guns be damned.

Again, I'm not saying this will absolutely happen every time in a hypothetical gun vs. wands conflict, but there are just too many options available to a wizard to make this idea anything more than a one-shot. Maybe.

 

Alright, then a oneshot it be.

Taure, good points all around. But magic can't stop everything.

Daily Prophet
BOY-WHO-LIVED DESTROYS ENGLAND IN A NUCLEAR HOLOCAUST.

Fixes that nicely.

 

Well, it's perfectly reasonable to think that magic can protect a wizard from a nuclear blast. Not stop the whole blast, but it doesn't need to do that - it just needs to create a person-sized pocket of safety.

After all, all an explosion is is heat, concussive force and radiation.

We've directly seen magical counters to heat and concussive force, and the radiation problem can be solved through either distance (apparition) or a lot of conjured/transfigured lead and the Bubblehead charm.

Keeping in mind the theory that equal and opposite forces do not matter to magic, the same flame-freezing spell that stops fire at 200 degrees will stop fire at 3000 degrees. And so on.

Edit: Can't post anymore, I want my 2000th post to have something special associated with it. I think I've said everything I need to say anyway.

 

But would it have worked at all? It said she 'attempted' to protect herself and, in fact, there is still screaming after she casts the spell. The 'worst scream yet', in fact. Granted, fear of getting buried in treasure might be scream-worthy, but not worse than the pained screams of someone who's being burned. Clearly this spell was not successful, so we can't know if it was even appropriate for such a situation.

Hermione already showed a few times in DH that she could do stupid shit when she panicked and she was definitely panicking in that scenario, it's not beyond imagining that she tried casting a spell that wouldn't have worked anyway.

Granted, but I think we can agree there are distinct differences between a bullet and a child's stink bomb, velocity being only one of them. We don't know the limits of that spell, so saying it would stop a bullet (as has been claimed before here at DLP) is assuming way too much.

Besides, unless you're behind cover, casting the Imperturbable Charm isn't going to help much. AND, can it be cast fast enough? If someone quick-draws on you, can you cast it, even non-verbally, before they pull the trigger? That's a lot of wand-waving in the time it takes to pull a trigger. Can the charm be cast on flesh? That might not be such a good idea. It might not even work on clothing, as the clothing might try to repel the wearer, anything the wearer tries to pick up, et cetera.

Lulz... I'm not saying that you're wrong and he's right, as far as the current discussion goes, but you've definitely been known to ride a horse around here and it has some of the loooongest legs I've ever seen.

I don't recall anyone getting a limb reattached in the graveyard. Artificially replaced, maybe. Some may call that nitpicking but there's a big difference, in my opinion.

But how do we know that? We don't, it's pure conjecture.

The claim that the typical wizard could survive a nuclear blast... That's the 'Magic Can Do Everything' attitude that boggles my mind. The wizards in HP have proven, as a whole, to be very, very fallible. There are many things the average witch or wizard can't even do, like the Patronus Charm and, sadly, a Shield spell. These are the people stopping bullets and blocking nuclear blasts with impunity? Wow. They must have become inordinately competent all of a sudden because in the books they're nowhere close to the level of skill and power that you constantly apply to them.