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The Final, Ultimate, Do-or-Die Severus Snape Thread

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by Skeletaure, Jan 22, 2008.

  1. Mors

    Mors Denarii Host DLP Supporter

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    Is there a reason that none of the most powerful wizards we see in the series: Dumbledore, Voldemort, and Snape is an animagi? Except the obvious reason that they decided to focus on magic in general instead of a highly specialized transfiguration application, could there be another reason?

    We see that all three of them are highly skilled at mind magic, occlumency or legillimency. There's a fantasy convention (in both fanfiction and original fantasy) that becoming an animal affects your self. Some authors portray it as the creature's instincts influencing your mind, while others write about the hormones and other chemicals in the transformed body affect your thinking processes. A stag brain can't really think like a human one. Not completely.

    So... is it possible that the animagus transformation affects your mind, and maybe your skills at mind magic? I know that none of the three (Albus, Snape or Voldemort) would like that. Even if the transformation doesn't impair their mind-magic abilities, they may deem anything that may conceivably alter the consciousness itself not worth the trouble.
     
  2. Skeletaure

    Skeletaure Magical Core Enthusiast ~ Prestige ~ DLP Supporter

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    It could be that they are so skilled at transfiguration using a wand that they have no need of the animagus transformation.
     
  3. Blaise

    Blaise Golden Patronus

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    Truth. I forget what story I read, but it had Harry using a timed animal self-transfiguration spell, which I think is a much better option than being an animagus. As for why Snape didn't pursue the art, and why he didn't have an award at school, I think there's a much simpler answer: he didn't want to draw attention to himself.

    Characters like Riddle and Slughorn are the ideal Slytherins: multi-talented, mass appeal, (seemingly) magnanimous, so forth and so on. Snape is the stereotypical Slytherin: secretive, more cunning than ambitious IMO - the perfect spy, basically. If people pay attention to him, people want to know what he's getting into, which means less time making dark curses.

    Someone mentioned how it's odd that Snape is so proficient in combat magic, but I disagree. "Silly wand waving" could mean that he's above using wand movements and spoken incantations. Unless I'm mistaken (and discounting the movies), pretty much every spell he does, no matter what the complexity, is done in two or less wand waves. Added to that, don't you find it odd that Snape could "give as well as he got" against four other antagonists? I'm assuming that Lily didn't help him, because she was a prissy bitch like that, so why would he willingly draw himself into conflicts with the Marauders? I think he used them as a practice, and a challenge; the fact that he thought they were dicks was just a convenient bonus.

    Finally, I think the ONLY reason he froze up when Nagini attacked him could be because his greatest fear is snakes. I don't remember the exact lines from DH, but apparently he never once took his eyes off the snake, even when in Voldemort's presence. Slightly off topic, but thoughts?
     
  4. Palver

    Palver High Inquisitor

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    He stared at the snake, because he remembered Dumbledore's order - when Voldemort puts Nagini into the enchanted cage and carries it with himself, then and only then he could tell Harry Potter about him being a Horcrux. He insisted then that he could "get the boy" several times to Voldemort.

    Moreover, Snape didn't knew anything about Elder Wand, how it must be passed from owner to owner through murder and all that legends - therefore while his mind was on the subject of Potter, he wasn't really listening to Voldemort's ramblings, he didn't saw any reason about Dark Lord killing him and was unprepared.
     
    Last edited: Jan 29, 2008
  5. Blaise

    Blaise Golden Patronus

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    Thanks, Palver. I probably forgot/overlooked that in my overall disgust with Book 7. Makes sense now, with him pleading with Voldemort to let him be the one to capture Harry.
     
  6. Dark-Stallion

    Dark-Stallion Professor

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    Don't forget his power over people; his ability to coerce just as effectively as Voldemort can cause fear and Dumbledore can... do whatever he does. He carries an aura which effects people around him- a true sign of a powerful character, which stems from his magical ability.

    Plus, we get numerous references to how he "knew more curses then half the 7th years as a first year" etc... He is a very potent being, and his abilities mix in all of the main forms of magic we see (mind, potions and wand-related) unlike most others (Slughorn is a prime example, as is Harry).

    Snape really kicks ass as a wizard, pity I hate the bastard so much to even consider using him as an in-depth character in my fic. Fucker.
     
  7. Voice of the Nephilim

    Voice of the Nephilim Death Eater DLP Supporter

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    The impression I got from DH was that even if Nagani had not been poisonous, Snape probably would have died. Given Nagani's large size, any bite marks to the throat would most likely have punctured the jugular. No anti-venom is going to help with regards to that.

    In my mind, Snape would have been just as competent and successful in classes as Dumbledore, or Voldemort, but because of Snape's clear lack of social skills, he would not have made the right political connections. It seems in the wizarding world, that being a Slytherin without connections is not going to be placed on a pedestal. Voldemort was because he was a political master manipulator.
     
  8. Banner

    Banner Dark Lady

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    He was smart, he was calculating, he was controlled. The only truly stupid thing he did in his life was take the Dark Mark. He let his rage and humiliation overwelm him, and it cost him EVERYTHING. If Severus Snape had had ten percent of the good-luck-in-a-crisis that Harry did, he would have been a very different man...
     
  9. Philly Homer

    Philly Homer What you call elephant cum I call mouthwash

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    As much as I hate to admit, I agree Snape is quite powerful. However, I disagree with one thing; Snape isn't the strongest after Dumbledore or Voldemort. That honor probably belongs to Bellatrix Lestrange. We know from HBP that Bellatrix knows Occlumency too. She was the only one who held her own against Dumbledore at the DOM fiasco. Snape was able to kill Dumbledore, because Dumbledore let him. I doubt Snape would last very long against Dumbledore in a fight.

    Bellatrix is taught by Voldemort himself, which means he saw major potential in her. Bellatrix killed Sirius, who was quite talented. She also killed Tonks, who was an Auror, and the prodigy of Mad-Eye Moody.

    Snape became the right hand man of Voldemort, because Dumbledore intended for Snape to. Bellatrix became Voldemort's best through her talent, knowledge and her love of torture. I think Bellatrix beats Snape.
     
  10. Demons In The Night

    Demons In The Night Chief Warlock

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    I agree that Bellatrix is the most powerful/skilled after DD and LV. I remember reading a long ass essay on Mugglenet about 2 years ago where the author dissected the DOM scene completely and came to the conclusion that Bellatrix defeated Moody, Tonks, and Sirius successively. This is an amazing feat considering how long it took her (not long at all) and the fact that she wasn't injured at all. I absolutely refuse to believe that Mollywobbles was able to kill her. We can just attribute that to JKR's addiction to crack along with just about everything else in HBP and DH. The Horcruxes were a good concept, but she utterly and epically failed in its delivery.
     
  11. Orm Embar

    Orm Embar Auror

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    Snape may have been Voldemort's right hand, but he lacked the brutal efficiency to be his key enforcer. Bellatrix was a sadist, and quite talented and powerful on top of that; perfect for that position. Snape's talents lay in the mind arts, his cunning, and his affinity for potions. While Snape probably never blasted anyone aside with sheer power, his skill compensated somewhat. He was an excellent spy and potion maker.

    But that doesn't change the fact that he was an asshole with self esteem issues that he took out on children.
     
  12. Skeletaure

    Skeletaure Magical Core Enthusiast ~ Prestige ~ DLP Supporter

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    Disagree due to magical theory differences. Nevertheless, even if you say that power is seperate from skill, you have to admit that Snape is powerful after Snape vs. McGonagall in DH.
     
  13. Dark Lady Pryor

    Dark Lady Pryor Fourth Year

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    Yes, but that can only be said if McGonagall is powerful. Where is the proof that she is? If you think back to the scene in OotP, she did get stunned and bested by Umbridge, who is seen to be a weak and useless spell caster. I also can't remember any scenes where McGonagall showed that she had a lot of duelling skills, though that might be because I have wiped most of HBP and DH from memory.
     
  14. fuubar

    fuubar Headmaster

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    In OotP McGonagall was stunned by 4 or 5 aurors when she walked out and shouted at them without a wand, as far as I can remember she was never cursed by Umbridge.
     
  15. Dark Lady Pryor

    Dark Lady Pryor Fourth Year

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    My bad, but there's still no proof that McGonagall is a skilled dueller, unless she uses a lot of Transfiguration in her battles.
     
  16. Skeletaure

    Skeletaure Magical Core Enthusiast ~ Prestige ~ DLP Supporter

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    McGonagall displayed her dueling talent in DH, both in the high level magic she used against Snape and in the fact that she was one of the three dueling Vodemort.
     
  17. Banner

    Banner Dark Lady

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    Does anyone remember any canon evidence that the other professors liked Snape? They all seemed to work together well enough, but is there any indication that some of them have a regular Friday-night poker game, or that Snape and Hagrid are developing a new beer for commercial production, or that Snape and Sprout sit sometimes and discuss planting/harvesting methods over tea?
     
  18. semil

    semil First Year

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    To be fair I can't remember any canon evidence that any of the professors actually LIKED anyone. Except for Hagrid, but he tends to like anyone DD does. I don't recall any references to any of the teachers commiserating after hours, or any social interaction.

    Though just as a thought, since there's only one teacher for each subject in Hogwarts, and considering the amount of homework each teacher seems to give, unless they use special paper-grading spells then it seems like they'd need to use a time turner to have the necessary time to grade all those papers.

    Every student from 1-7 takes Charms, Potions, Transfiguration, Defense, etc. Those teachers must be horribly overworked.
     
  19. Skeletaure

    Skeletaure Magical Core Enthusiast ~ Prestige ~ DLP Supporter

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    There's not that many students though.

    As for:

    From McGonagall's words at the end of HBP in the Hospital wing, when she says something to the effect that the teachers had all wondered why Dumbledore allowed Snape to teach, I'd say that the other teachers disliked him.
     
  20. semil

    semil First Year

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    I tend to agree with you, but that isn't the only conclusion that can be drawn. Some people just don't pass on knowledge well, and some don't deal well with children. Snape is both. For all we know he could be a blast at a party.
     
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