But do the muggles know these locations, maybe if they had a muggleborn or something of the like. But as someone said, we won't involve traitors and the like.

This raises another question, are muggleborns traitors to the muggles if they fight for the wizards or are they traitors if they fight for the muggles?

 

Wait we agreed not to involve traitors when was that? All is far in love and war, as the adage goes. Traitors and subversives are present in every conflict.

 

Yeah, but someone said we were talking about muggle vs wizards, not muggle/wizards vs wizards.

 

Oh, magic is thicker than blood, of course!

This is a muggle vs. wizards thread. Muggleborns aren't muggles, and are obligated to turn on their parents in case of war.

Because those muggleborns are treated so fairly in the wizarding world....except for that pesky odd Dark Lord that seems to pop up once every generation and kills them all.

 

Personally, while I recognize that wizards are capable of great and grand feats... They also show, in canon at least, terminal stupidity all the time. Sure, there are some great spells and whatnot, but when have we ever seen wizards fighting intelligently.

One of the things to remember for this versus is that it's Wizards vs Muggles. It is /not/ DLP in Charge of the Wizards, vs the Muggles. With the latter, of course the wizards would win, though they'd have to be quite about it. Dementors aren't the perfect weapon. Just because they're invisible to muggles. Hell, take a look at their effects on the environment. They'd show up on thermal vision /easy/. And last I checked, they didn't seem particularly strong, even if wizards are always harping on about how the Patronus is the only way to beat them. What's to prevent someone from blowing them apart at range?

Ona personal leve, one muggle vs one wizard, the wizard takes it, easy. But when you have a Wizard stepping out of the Leaky Cauldron, versus a pair of snipers three blocks away, under cover.... I'm not cheering for the wizard here.

If it came to war, the only way the wizards could possibly win would be to be quiet about it. Stealthy stuff, destabilizing governments by assasninating... oh, the Queen, the assorted public leaders and whatnot.

Of course, if the muggles are made /aware/ that they're actually at war, then it's an entirely different story. There are only so many hours in a day, and only so many wizards. Sheer numbers would weigh down on them. And that's not even covering issues like, oh, advanced military hardware.

While I suspect Hogwarts could survive a nuke detonating on top of her, if only for the sheer amount of wards and stuff, I still suspect that it'd kill everyone inside, or almost everyone. And for those who ask "Well how can they nuke it if they can't see it?" Well there's a couple points of interest.

The first is that Muggles /can/ see hogwarts. However, the Muggle Repelling Wards do a couple of things. The first is make any muggle see a decreipt old fallen down wreck of a castle. The second is give them an extreme urge to go elsewhere.

The main problem with this is that any combat muggles engage in against stationary targets out in the middle of nowhere are going to be done /from/ range. If you aren't in range of the wards, they can't make you forget about it and go elsewhere. And that's not even talking about what happens if the US government starts dropping sattilites on people. Sure it's not standard operating procedure, and probably goes against a bunch of rules of war stuff.... but these wizards are going to be teleporting into your homes, behind your barracades, and killing you, then vanishing. They're going to be mind controlling people, and raising fricking zombies. So a little leeway ought to be expected.

Then of course, we have things like aircraft. Do you honestly expect that joe wizard (Let's say Lucius Malfoy) on a broom is going to win against joe pilot in an F-22 raptor?

Well maybe if he could get a good hit in, but, it's not like the Raptor's going to be at knife fight distances.


Right now, the biggest advantage that wizards have is secrecy. I severely doubt their ability to instantly develope defences for something they 'understand'. I mean, they really don't have time to send their spell crafters to nuclear bomb school and learn all that stuff. I mean, what, the Killing Curse has been around for thousands of years, they evidently know how it works, and yet no one ever figured out a defence against it?

And they're going to do this against nukes? Or bullets?

Even with all their physics defying, that inertia has to go /somewhere/. A protego shield, which seems like it needs to be recast constantly is /not/ going to hold up to a rifle on full automatic. It might block the first, oh, five shots, but it's going to constantly need to be recast at insane speeds (faster then the bullets are firing).

Sure, the wizard could apparate out, presuming he's not in a lot of pain, and doesn't splinch himself... but that's a lot of 'ifs'.

 

As far as we know, Grindelwald had nothing against Muggleborns whatsoever. Just Muggles. So really it's only Voldemort. A far cry from a Dark Lord every generation.

Dumbledore was pretty smart.

 

Magic is thicker than blood?
No, this isn't the American Civil War, magic doesn't seem very thick either, its fluid, it flows and some philosophical nonsense.

 

If we are doing that, then I guess in modern times, the two sides would be equal. But in the future Muggles would probably be much more effective in killing wizards, especially if this conflict starts now. But then if we go like that, we could say wizards would take some tech for themselves.

 

I'm only saying Nuke Hogwarts because it would wipe out a substantial portion of the wizards delaying fresh troops from entering the fray.

 

Oh please, yeah right Wizards aren't goddamned cockroahes, the heat and pressure alone would kill long before the radiation.
Twenty students or so in Englands magical school per year, the wizarding population is small according to Rowling wipe all of them out, well they SOL.

 

Because it was implied that magic acts to defend wizards in situations where they're scared as hell, and there's a very real danger. Neville would see the ground rushing up at him, or feel himself falling, and his magic responded to that stimulus, under his control or not. Radiation poisoning isn't some sudden effect, and it's not something that they're even likely to understand.

Not to mention that, oh, if magic defended against poison automotatically, snape would pretty much be out of a job.

 

Isn't there only like 200 something people in Hogwarts at one time?Or 400?I know JKR said that at one point in a interview. To bad poison isn't a form of disease, because then I would have to say that wizards probably wouldn't be infected cuz they are supposedly immune to almost all muggle diseases.
*sigh*
Honestly if it was an all out war wizards would just plant spies inside all of the major HQ's of muggles, then when they wanna set up a nuke they apparate back to wizard HQ tell the people and evac the fuck out.

 

We really need a standard set of rules that magic has that is agreed upon by most of DLP. That would make this a bit easier, as on the wizard side all we are doing is guessing, for the most part, on how magic protects the wizard.

 

Its like two hundred, some where around there.
Wizards in a muggle building will stick out, especially in a high security locale.

 

That's assuming they can find the assorted HQs. Wizards (Okay, british ones) never seemed particularly knowledgable about muggles. Sure, they'd pop into the Prime Minister's office, but it was implied that his bloody floo was connected to that fireplace, so it's not as if they actually know where the guy is at all times. They just have a portrait keep an eye on the office and floo or aparate there. What happens if Joe Minister is at a starbucks across from the foreign embassy discussing something with a military leader?

What? You expect the Point Me spell to have infinite range?



EDIT: On the note of wizards in, erm, public. I don't know if you've /ever/ noticed, but their fashion sense is absolutely atrocious. Not to mention that it would be pretty easy to spot one by, oh, asking him a few general questions?

Hell, just have a double check. A guy interviews someone, then someone else interviews the same person, then another guy talks to the first two interviewers about their interviews. Any discrepancies.... someone's been playing with your bwains.

 

Hah, he has a point.

 

Heh, I'm seeing a World War Z kind of vibe here.

The muggles being unable to cope with the wizards at first, but then slowly pushing them back, reclaiming the planet...

Edit: If it was straight Wizard/Muggle, then the Wizards will probably win. But how many muggleborns are going to side with their own? And how many half-bloods, raised by muggles and muggle-borns?

 

Oh Sweet Jesus, out of the mouths of the self-confident.

Neville didn't cast a freaking spell when he bounced...it was accidental magic. Or is there's another reason why Harry didn't bounce every goddamn time he fell off the broom?

If wizards bleed, then wizards are subject to the harmful effects of alpha particles.

Unless, of course, JKR says otherwise. Because all she has to do is say that "wizards are immune to radioactive fallout" during her next book reading and it will have to be true.