With perspicacity's masterpiece coming to mainstream light lately, I've been considering the potential for fics following Prisoner of Azkaban.

First of all, we have Sirius. Now, admittedly, JKR's Sirius didn't really strike 'real' chords with me. Not that she didn't use him how she saw most fit, but that things didn't really seem to fit with him. He's just spent a decade and change in Azkaban, and he's pissed off at only two people. Snape and Pettigrew. His canine lipstick is all over Lupin, and he's got a major 'protect Harry' issue, since he's been an absentee Godfather. This wouldn't bother me, except that the only real role his character played was to be an emotional weakness for Harry. I think he could have been much more.

1. We are led to believe he's fled the country. Why? We've already seen his ancestral home used as the HQ for an admittedly mostly older and weaker Order. Why would we need to wait almost two years to put 12 Grimmauld Place under fidelius? Wouldn't he be closer to his godson (something I understand, as a godfather myself) if the charm was put up sooner, to allow him to remain in London?

2. If you can eat rats to remain close to your godson, wouldn't you (at the very least) if you were to give him advanced material to learn from? Provide for his training? Your only remaining friend was the DADA teacher Harry's third year, and even though I can't recall what Sirius did for a living, as such a successful prankster and young adult, he has his own talents, right? Why would't he arrange for a tutor? Teach Harry a few tricks from his own arsenal? Arrange access to the Black Family Library, including the dark arts works in the collection? If my godson seems to be in a position where the most evil Dark Lord in at least a half-century defied death itself to kill him, I'll be damned if I wouldn't do my best to prepare him.

3. Sirius is a link to the Order itselt. With Dumbledore's support, wouldn't he be able to reconnect with members of the original Order of the Phoenix? You've got Mad-Eye Moody, whom we know was good enough in a battle to survive, even if he took some harsh hits along the way. We've got Mundungus Fletcher, who isn't good for much, but is good for connections that could land him shadier or more questionable materials..including books, armor, magical items, and whatnot, and seems to have no qualms about stealing if he can't get his hands on something otherwise. Thus we have opportunities for Harry to learn, train, and get his hands on information Hogwarts can't (or won't) offer him.

4. Now we can discuss the Weasley's only redeeming character: Bill. I like what jbern did with his character in TFtCD, BitJ, and so far, TML. He could be a mentor to Harry as well. He obviously doesn't mind dealing in the shadier aspects of magic (hiring hitwizards, having a somewhat insane aspect to his persona, being a bit of a sadist, though that's fanon, not canon), and even works with somewhat ruthless Goblins. He's obviously good at both constructing and tearing down wards, and could give Harry the one-year-tutorial that would catch him up in Ancient Runes, making Harry a far more proficient wizard.

I'm considering all this, and after (or right at the end) of PoA seems the best place to begin Harry's more serious training. He's emotionally realized that he has Hermione, Ron (and other Weasleys) and Sirius as family, and should be intelligent enough to realize something will always happen to him (Voldemort, Diary-Tom-Riddle, Dementors), and train accordingly.

That's really all I have for now. I'm seeing loads of potential for fics dedicated to picking up here, and I'm wondering what others think. So give me well thought out reasons for or against this idea. I'd love to see some intelligent ideas in this direction. I'm sure there are better uses for established characters, and better characters in general to use...so if anyone has believable plot devices that could work here, and an interest in the conversation, discuss it with me here.


Edit: if this isn't cohesive or coherent as a post, then I truly apologize. A full fifth of Crown Royal and 5 Budweisers can do a lot to change your perspective. Actually, to hell with perspective, it can do a lot to you as a person.

 

apparently I was the only one interested, lol. can a mod delete this for me?

 

Actually your post is very intresting, you make valid points, I always woundered why Sirus just couldn't shift to the Black Home, and have Dumbledore put it under the fidulus charm, Harry instead of going to the weasleys in the Holiday, he could have gone to Sirus, and sirus could have trained him I always woundered what Sirus did after he left Hogwarts, I always thought he would be a Auror like James, (I think James was a Auror).

Thats true, if your family, son daughter or god son had the most evil dark lord in history after you, wouldn't your prepare him. I find it insulting that Harry hardly trained, and in the end he beat Voldermort with some 3rd Year spell, sheesh, 50 years + skills + dark arts, and he gets beaten like that.

I have never read a fanficition where Harry took control of his life after the 3rd year, started training, there are some but they were like time travel fics, or where it took sirus death for him to train. After the 3rd book would have been ideal for him to train.

It would be intresting for someone or maybe you write it out, Im myself would not have the imagination to pull something off, and it wouldn't be decent.

Its also intresting to see sirus all buddy up with Dumbledore, wouldn't you hate the guy who had the power to get him a trial, but didn't, let you rot in Azkaban while Peter roamed Hogwarts,

Bill would have made a awesome mentor, Bill must have dealt with some not light magic, his a curse breaker, and most likely dealing with dark artifacts, so he may have knowledge on the darker aspect of magic,

I always thought Canon Harry was a Joke, I mean, here is this 50+ wizard, greatest dark lord in history, on par with Dumbledore, and no training at all, I mean all the books showed me was Harry was lazy, couldn't be bothered with homework, playing chess with ron, qruidditch, girls, lusting after ginnys!slut, seriously, thats ok, most guys would think about that, but Harry isn't like them, sometimes I get the feeling that the more times harry tries to be normal it fails, and I have never seen where Harry uses his fame to get somthing he wants, Harry had power, he was the freak BWL, he could have used it, but didn't. He shpould take lessons from the Malfoys.

I just wished that Canon Harry had some balls and trained, I would have been nice to see a stronger Harry in the 4th Book, someone who would take the shit what the students said about him.

Nevertheless, all valid points you make, this would have been a good point where Harry suddely realised that he needs to take this seriously, and stop being a lazy fuck and train, and sirus could have helped, but no sirus was busy hiding out in some other country, where he could have been his ancestor home, under the fidulus charm, and couldn't Dumbledore find a better accomadation for sirus, when he was hiding out. I would have done that if I let a innocent man rot in Jail.

 

Well, to point 1 first of all. He didn't go to the Black Home because he held many bad memories of it. He hated his childhood, and he hated the house. If you had the choice of going to live in the tropics after just getting out of a rock cell on an island in the middle of the atlantic, or of going and living in a house that you hate, full of memories of people that you hate...which would choose?

Next, point 2, who ever said that Sirius remained more than semi-sane after Azkaban? He may simply not have considered that Harry wasn't getting the training he needed at Hogwarts. For all their perceived talents, from what we know from canon the Marauders only have formal tuition from Hogwarts. Sirius may have believed that if he and James could manage on that, then Harry could as well. Fatal flaw in that argument is that Sirius and James had motive to train themselves...their pranking. Harry never seems to realise his motive to train, despite it being rather obvious.

I don't quite see your point in number 3. You think that Sirius should have insisted on Harry getting special treatment...the uber!magic spell book, some dragon skin armour, and magic katana perhaps? All purchased at a reasonable rate in Knockturn alley by your friendly neighborhood Dung with only minimal commission charged.

On point 4, firstly, how does knowing how to translate an ancient dead language have any bearing on how good a wizard you are? Next, you seem to forget that hitwizards are ministry employees, who have fewer qualifications and less training than an auror but have responsibility for enforcing the law (they are to police as aurors are to the armed response unit). Ok, now, why would a wizard who has only been out of Hogwarts for a few years be a suitable mentor? He removes curses from ancient tombs for a living. No one ever mentions him breaking wards if I remember correctly. I would think he must have quite a good store of general counter curses on hand, as well as having good reactions. However, whilst he may be useful to an extent in battle, he is not a warrior (as demonstrated in HBP when he gets seriously injured). If you want to have Harry mentored, have someone with fighting experience do it. Dumbledore is ideal, he's powerful, he's knowledgeable, he's taken on his own Dark Lord. An Auror would be good, they have battle training, their day job is to take down Dark Wizards (not minor criminals, thats left to the Hitwizards, but proper Dark Wizards).

Mumhip, when is it ever said that Dumbledore could have gotten a trial for Sirius? The actual role of the Wizengamot is never defined, but it seems likely that the Chief Mugwump is something like the Speaker of the House, or Lord Speaker. He may only have the power to direct the flow of each individual session, and not have any actual individual powers.

However, all in all, I would agree that post PoA is an excellent time to start a fic, it provides for a good basis and gives reason for change, a catalyst if you will.

 

As for Sirius' sanity, I agree with you, Mordecai. It's never mentioned that he's sane at all. But the only thing he had to hold onto in Azkaban was his innocence and the fact that Harry was alive. I would think it would form a sort of obsession with keeping Harry safe afterwards, even if he couldn't play a major role in his eductation, training, or da to day life.

No superbooks, no Knockturn trips, and for damn sure, no katanas. I was thinking more along the lines of: If Sirius or Harry couldn't purchase it, or didn't want their names attached to it, bring in Dung. Give him a little gold to pull off a shady deal and get his hands on it. Theft seems right up his alley, to me. It just gives Harry a way to get things without having the general public, or even just certain people, knowing he has them. I also doubt Sirius would be all "no darker magic, Harry!" when it came to his survival. Seems more natural, no?

When I brought Bill up as a personal mentor, I meant more or less for educational purposes: not a hands on student-mentor relationship. Bill is proof that Ancient Runes are useful in work later, where Divination might not be. A more learned wizard is a more useful one (in my thinking) because they know things other wzards might not. It could give Harry a slight advantage.

I'm not thinking super!Harry, super!Sirius, or super!Bill, by any means. I'm thinking more of diversity in Harry's growth as a wizard. I think if the need for other subjects (like Bill's job as a cursebreaker) were explained to Harry while he still thinks he has a future (aka, doesn't know the prophecy), he might be more prone to learn them. More learning yields more skills, more skills equals more powerful, more powerful adds up to less canon-pussy!Harry, while not ramping him up at incredible paces all for the reasons of giving him the things he missed out on at Hogwarts in the first few chapters of a fanfiction. No deus ex machina, in other words.

I like the back and forth discussion ideas, but I'd also like to see where other people would go from this point. So yeah, blurt that out as well.

 

Has it not occurred to you that there may be a reason that Dark Magic is declared thus...? Perhaps some reason beyond "The Minister is too weak to cast these spells, so he declares them illegal." That reason is completely fucktarded. Dark Magic could very easily have severe negative side effects. Just about every Dark Witch or Wizard we see in the books was in some way not completely there in head, is that just a coincidence? Personally, I think not. Sirius grew up in a house hold where Dark Magic was revered, and look at how sane his mother was, do you think that he would want to inflict that on his godson?

Also, as I have have just said, he grew up around Dark Magic. He hated his childhood. He hated his family. He hated anything that reminded him of his family, his past, his childhood. I think that hate would probably transfer over to Dark Magic, he would associate it with his own suffering and not want to hurt Harry.

 

Good stuff here and the way I see it there are a few ways you can go with Sirius.

He regressed socially in his time at Azkaban and the concept of responsibility only holds his interest for so long, hence he splits to the Carribean. 12 years in Azkaban can not do much for the will and sanity of anyone if the descriptions of the prison are to be believed. Maybe Sirius was somewhat broken after his stay in Azkaban and he gave all he could to Harry, which was the relationship of a loved uncle on screen in canon.

He has held on to the unpleasantries of his childhood at Grimmauld in canon, and he bows to Dumbledore's will because he is somewhat stuck at that perpetual age of 18-22 due to Azkaban. He likes the concept of protecting Harry, and he even does his own part after he has broken out from Azkaban, but protecting someone and protecting someone are two different things. He sloughs off the more demanding aspects of his role as godfather to Dumbledore, and hence Harry returns to the Dursleys for more Dumbledore ordered martyr conditioning every summer.

Another possibility is that you can make Sirius the deus ex machina as the caring godfather, and he gives Harry everything he wants, needs, and could ever desire in his wildest dreams. Training is a foregone conclusion to guarantee a successful completion of the prophecy, and their actual relationship is as close as their perceived relationship often is in fanon.

Bill is mostly a blank slate, and his fanon perceptions color the canon reality that an author can do anything they want with him.

I like to think my own post POA fic has a combination of the two, with a certain element for Sirius that pretty much is summed up with "What now?" Considering the fate of many prisoners after long imprisonment, perhaps Sirius chose to be trapped at Grimmauld again, because it was all he knew.

An interesting fanon scene could be like the old guy from Shawshank Redemption that hung himself because he couldn't take it in the outside world. Maybe a vaguely suicidal Sirius would be the most accurate one possible.

Anyways, there are some general thoughts on the thing from me.

 

Some very interesting ideas in here. Sirius is not exactly above the law himself, and he was resourceful enough to smuggle the Firebolt to Harry in canon. He could buy a Wizarding Tent for Harry to live in, after realising the situation at the Dursleys. I don't find it improbable that he would send him some high quality duelling text either, danger has the habit of following him around.

Trelawney's second prophecy should definitely have opened Harry's eyes, forcing him to think a little more about the future.

It would be interesting if he entered the Triwizard Tournament willingly, perhaps with Hedwig's help? He would then want to be known for his own accomplishments, rather than for something he had absolutely no control over.

What if the Ministry sacked Rita after the World Cup Fiasco, forcing the Prophet to send a more honest reporter to the Triwizard interview? I think it would be interesting to have the press on Harry's side for once.

Skipping the super-cliched Gringot sequence, wandless magic and elemental abilities would hopefully be enough to stop the fic from travelling down the classic and infamous Indy!Harry root.

Just a few thoughts from me, discuss and tare apart to your hearts content.

 

Dark Magic seems, in canon, to rot the brains of those who use it. Or at the very least erodes their morals.

To use it requires very definite emotions on the part of the practitioner. Hatred, a desire to kill or dominate, willingness to murder. A Harry who begins to delve into that would be training himself as much to like the idea or torture and killing as he would be to killing Voldemort.

That is why Dark Magic is outlawed. The only Light magic is stuff like Luminous. Dark Magic is a special category all its own.

Bill is only a few years out of school himself, and isn't really a soldier. He could probably teach things like disarming ancient traps, and be a cool older brother for Harry, but not really a mentor. I can't recall anyone aside from Dumbledore who showed any desire to take that role on.

Harry, in canon, has had a pretty poor life. He grew up without even the most basic affection and attention. He should have an anti-social personality. But a sociopathic young hero wouldn't have sold quite as well. So you would need a way to get a Harry who has been isolated from everyone else, outside Ron and Hermionie, to seek out and trust an adult. And most adults haven't reallybeen good to Harry.

 

How would Hedwig help him enter the Triwizard?

 

Harry in canon casted Crucio on a Death Eater for spitting at McGonagall. They didn't seem to have a problem with that. Imperio was used so that the goblin teller wouldn't give them away. He used dark magic to get what he wanted and seemed to have no problem with it.

 

By flying over the age line, and dropping the paper with Harry's name into the GoF.

Dumbledore could possibly have taken measures to stop this from happening, but there is no support in canon for that. He could also have left some intentional loop wholes as rewards for thinking out of the box. The GoF chooses only the most talented student from each school as a champion, after all.

 

Eh, for the past few months I have been plotting out a post!PoA story where Harry acts on this prophesy: "TONIGHT BEFORE MIDNIGHT... THE SERVANT WILL BREAK FREE AND SET OUT TO REJOIN HIS MASTER..." He realizes that Trelawney's prophesy might come true, and that Wormtail, the servant, is on his way to free Voldemort- so he decides to start preparing for Voldemort's rise in advance.

I've already plotted much of the story, and even wrote a (shitty) first chapter draft, but I keep on procrastinating. I don't intend on posting it until I've got half a dozen chapters finished already.

 

Stop procrastinating Pesmerga. We need good fics to read, and the way I see it, after POA and Trelawney's second prophecy is a good place to start.

I'm sort of plotting one out as well, but it's also going really slowly. My Harry would also start preparing, but I'd take the series in a different direction, I think. 'Why wait a full year after her prophecy to bring Voldemort back?' Is the main thought I've been using, honestly. Going from there, I'm trying to decide what roles I'd want to put characters into as far as Harry's preparations go, and how to introduce some of the Order members in that same veign.

As far as sociopath Harry goes...that's definitely not what I had in mind. I'll cite neren's reminder of Harry using Unforgiveables in DH as a reason to believe Dark Magic could be used, if done right.

That's kind of why I started this thread--for brainstorming and the gathering of ideas. I may not end up taking anything from this thread into account, but it's a more entertaining way to consider things than writing down each small and possibly unuseable plot bunny that comes to mind.

Anyway, come on with the ideas, or even just with using this thread as a punching bag.

 

My main issue with post-PoA fics is that the authors always seem to abandon their story after they try and add some romantic ties in there. Fluer and Cho are nice for later on, but if any of you go and write a post-PoA/GoF story, please ... take my advice. No ships.

 

Neren, Phoenix, does smoking one cigarette, or even two, cause you to develop all the signs of being a long term smoker (yellow nails, horrid cough, scratchy voice etc)...no. Will using one or two Dark Art spells cause you to go insane...no. Will continued use of either example cause the mentioned results...yes.

 

Apparently, being a long term smoker (13 years so far) doesn't necessarily do that either. I don't have yellowed nails, a horrid cough, or a scratchy voice. Of course the only way to compare that to Dark Magic would be to say if you have good genes you won't necesarily show the symptoms. It's a moot point, really.

On the other hand, the point of this thread isn't Dark Magic or the symptoms it causes in its users. Its potential plot points or ideas of how one might use certain characters or already-in-motion-plot-points to possibly build a Post-PoA fic.

And yeah, Kolskit, I agree. Many authors do fall into the romance-takes-over-the-plot hole. PoA story or not. I consider it the biggest reason why so many Indy fics fail, but that's just my opinion.

Am I the only one who sees leaving out the Triwizard Tournament as a potentially good thing for a fourth year fic?


EDIT: Back on the subject of Bill as a 'mentor' (definitely not in the traditional sense), I just started taking a look at Rustlings In The Dark by Neisseria (the first chapter anyway) and the way Bill is used is sort of what I had in mind.

 

Eh, good point Mordecai. I see that there is no problem with dark magic. Everything is just based on morals. Dark magic is just another weapon in the aresenal.

How about using the prophecy and the Triwizard Tournament as a method for Harry to get his ass in gear? Make the tournament much more dangerous and make Harry strive to be as good as his opponents.

 

That's not what he said ... he said that if you use a single Dark Arts spell, you aren't going to suddenly turn into Bellatrix Lestrange, but if you continually abuse the Dark Arts, your mind will become twisted ... that was the whole purpose of the 'one-or-two cigarettes won't kill you, but habitually smoking will' metaphor.

 

I understood what Mordecai said. I was merely giving my own opinion of dark magic.