Interesting video.

He brings up some good points I never knew. He's getting pretty big with his video blogs but this is probably my favourite one.

 

BNP, scream's BNP. English accent..check. Definetly BNP.

 

It's all too easy to just dismiss him as a racist and an Islamaphobe, but if you listen to what he says it actually does make sense. It's true that Britain (not so sure on Europe as a whole) has been bending over backwards to accommodate Muslims, and censorship in Islam's favour is at an all time high.

I'm not bothered about our culture, because its a mutable concept and is subject to change between years, never mind the long term. It's just that we're inviting people into our country who would like nothing more than to kill or convert us, with no third option.

Tolerant Muslims, the kind that are just like any other guy on the street, are perfectly fine. My four year old nephew's mother is a Muslim and she was nice enough, though totally insane in a certain way, and her mother was the nicest old lady you could hope to meet.

Radical Muslims, and extremist of other religions in general, are the problem that we shouldn't have to endure. I hear news of racist behaviour on the television every other day, but nine times out of ten it's about anti-Islamic hatred with the occasional bomb threat by extremists.

But with all that in mind, I have no idea what we could do. One of the tenets of life in Western culture is freedom of speech, and if we don't have that then what do we have? Of course that's on the decrease as well, which doesn't help much, so the right to speak how and what we want would be welcome. Other than that though, we either have to give up our rights to get rid of the threat, or live with the threat but retain our rights...

Aekiel

 

It is interesting how “Islam-o-phobia” is accepted in the U.S. when people are actually aware and talking about the world today, but mostly with us we’re on to the next new thing. A lot of people don’t give a damn that there is a war going on, but that is beside the point of this video.

It is over generalizing to say that the “West” is pandering to Muslims, it is not. The “West” includes Europe oh and then some. This is not meant to be a Europe vs US vs Canada etc debate, my point is that whenever anyone speaks for the West when they are actually talking about their own stand point from one nation they are deliberately trying to give their point of view more credence than it has.

For example in the U.S. you could make anti-Muslim comments and no one will bat any eye, many do in public, but then again we’re killing us some A-Rabs. The only equivalent of what I see this guy describing that we have is maybe criticizing Israel – that will get you labeled Anti-Semitic in a heart beat. Although we have plenty of people criticizing anyway.

I expect when Muslims ask for respect they are probably referring to U.S. foreign relations and demonizing than anyone else – after all we were on a “crusade” before someone told our President that was not the smartest signal to send to our own Muslim citizens.

Now if Europe’s media is getting so repressive that they can’t even talk about the issues, that is sad. But the fact that it is not pandering to sweeping statements that color Islam with the same brush as used on terrorists is also not a bad thing. What is preferable is dialogue, providing information, education, instead of trying to hide from the issues.

Some of his statements were just typical:

“If Israel didn’t exist Muslims would still be killing Jews.”

Just look at history before Israel. Hell, look at history when Muslims were an overarching power in the Eastern world while we were hanging about in the dark ages. Jews lived in Muslim monarchies or sultanates or caliphates. In some they didn’t even have to pay taxes but had all the protection, yes, and there were others where they were mistreated. But the point is that it is not a default reaction from Muslims towards Jews, that is again an over-generalization.

Islam calls Jews “people of the book,” and calls Jewish kosher food, kosher for Muslims. There is definitely tolerance in history, peaceful co-existence. For anyone in the U.S. Midwest, if you’re ever in downtown Chicago, go to Devon Street, a hub of multiculturalism and exchange. Muslims, Hindus, Jews, all have their shops there and intermingle, eat at each other’s restaurants and bakeries, and come out to watch the other's cultural celebrations. Telling you that is to say: THERE IS NO IMMUTABLE LAW THAT STATES MUSLIMS HATE AND WILL MURDER JEWS.

God, I hate sweeping statements, and yes I know I made one up there.

Also if you are going to label Islamic culture by what the radicals and the terrorists do, then obviously it is going to come off as inferior to any decent community.

Do we want our cultures to be defined by the crack pots, the religious fanatics, the extremists we hear about every damn day on the news?

It is pretty damned convenient to have one set of standards to look at yourself and a completely different set to look at another. When we look at cultures in the West we allow for the fringe, the sexual predators, the criminal, and say they are a part but not the whole of western culture. When we look at cultures in the East, we look at the mullah, the radical cleric, the suicide bomber, and say that there sir is Islam and their culture.

That is pretty damn childish.

Just think if that is the entirety of Islamic culture, wouldn’t we have that many more terrorists, that many more people going on self righteous murdering rampages?

If suppressing dialog is what is happening in European media then I am against it, I believe that these things need to be talked about. But I am also not one for giving a platform to would-be whistle-blowers with their catchy labels and dramatic phrases that generalize an entire region of the world and demonize it.

 

"according to a recent opinion poll, many muslim say that the way for the west to have better relations with islam is to show it more respect. And who say's that muslims don't have a sense of humour."

First of all respect comes from not bombing muslim countries. When muslims talk about the west, it is mostly about America. It is true, most people do respect us when you live here, but the people that matter (The prime minister, president of america ect.) have shown no respect as of yet. Did you know islamic extremist's piss off even the muslims. I know that he said the non extremist are alright, but at the same time you have to try and get into why there are extremist in the first place.

Muslims didn't hate jew's till they got control of Israel and America's and Britain's backing. Before Isreal even existed that land was an example of democracy, I mean how often do you see Jewish, Muslims and christian's come together and pray in the same building? And the thing that pisses muslims off even more is the fact it was given by the british. So when he say's that muslims hate Jew's he is completly of the mark, Muslims hate the country called Israel.

He does make good point's but the fact remain's, that he tends to exaggerate some fact's.

 

When the British controlled Israel she favored the Muslims because they had the numbers. Also, the Arabs had numerous raids at the time, so I don't see where this is coming from.

As for the video, I can't really respond because it's not the situation here. Sure, people are walking on eggshells, but most of us openly hate the extremist. (both Muslims and to some extent Jews. Don't wanna be here? gtfo.)

 

Ah, Pat Condell. A hardcore atheist fundamentalist that hates on all religions equally, but tends to focus mostly on Christianity anyways.

 

Well said.

I think that he raises some good points, but at the same time is far too definitive and generalising in his comments.

Now, I've never read the Qur'an, I know shit-all about Islamic culture and in fact, all religions as I despise every one of them. What I do know (Or rather have heard about and base my knowledge on rumours aand media), is the controversial debate that centres on the aggressive implications in the Qur'an. Personally though I'd rather not get into that.

I just want to say, from what I have heard, there are things in the Qur'an and the overall Islamic religion that have questionable ethics. For one, the treatment of women. The fact that women are seen as the workers of the house, must always cover themselves up and should see there husband as somewhat of a lord.

All these points would be deemed as gender discrimination, though as it is an established religion the law (In western - Sorry Nuhuh - societies at least) avoids prosecution. Perhaps because the women accept it as religion and move on.

I'm taking a stab in the dark when I say things are different for American's than the rest of the world. The 9/11 attacks (Government conspiracy or no) would have sparked a lot of hatred and resentment to the Muslims and Arabs in general. I say in general, because I am aware that there are people who get along fine and couldn't give a rat's arse is someone was Muslim or not, but there seem to be (IMO at least) lot's of dislike to Muslims. Sometimes it's more open than other times.

When your country gets bombed by another, there's bound to be a lot of anger at the country that did it. No fucking shit. The country in the 9/11 instance was unfortunately fingered to be Afghanistan/Iraq/Whatever it was, despite being the work of a terrorist organisation. Tough luck again that these countries are largely Islamic, hence the hate.

Finishing up pointing out the obvious about America, I'll move on to other 'Western' societies. Having lived in Britain, Denmark and Australia since the 9/11 attacks I'll speak from each point of view.

Britain obviously, is very much how Condell says it is. With the large Islamic community in Britain (and it does seem to be pretty fucking big), there’s a lot of tension surrounding it. People no doubt feel that they should respect the fact that not all Muslims are like the terrorists and judgement should be reserved for an individual. The Islamic community (Which seems to me to be the same everywhere) cries out for injustice and attention. Condell hits the nail on the head.

In Australia, it's a strange circumstance. In reality, we don't seem to really care all that much. Among the teenagers (that's me) there’s a lot of seemingly joking racism towards Middle Eastern nations and Muslims. That is, we're openly racist quite a lot of the time in our comments but it's hard to tell whether anyone actually feels that way. Dislike towards Middle Easterners and Muslims is balanced by general dislike and humorous disbelief that we direct to the Americans. In addition, we have the aboriginals which are our own perfect rendition of what Condell said. Continually bitching for money, recognition and always outraged about something.

Denmark. Oh boy. No doubt, unless you've been living under a rock for the past 10 years, you will remember the Mohammed drawings incident. Condell mentions it. Danish flags were burned, violent threats were made, at least one embassy was attacked, and there was chaos in the streets of Copenhagen. Naturally, the Danish people are pissed off about that.

There is a lot, a fucking lot, of open racism in the streets here towards the Muslim community. Danish in general are fairly cold and patriotic people but following the Mohammed riots it became a lot more deep-seeded. While there have not been many violent racial attacks, the general feeling in the community is great dislike to all Muslims, as the Mohammed incident was one that can be blamed on almost all Muslims. The Danish basically feel as though they have done very little wrong, and there was even a cry for the pictures to be re-printed in a cry of injustice.

What Condell says is annoying and in some instances wrong. But he points out some noticeable flaws. I'm more or less sided with Nuhuh on this point.

 

1) No direct line saying any of these.

2) The complete cover all is a cultural interpretation - again not explicitly in the Quran. In many muslim countries this is a big issue because one segment of the society likes to throw it in the face of the clerics that they don't have any real basis for ordering about the men to keep beards and women to not show their faces etc.

3) As far as seeing the husband as a lord, I think I have read that line in the Bible, but I won't hold to that until I look it up again. A verse that I remember from reading the Quran about a husband and wife's relationship is something to the effect that in marriage a woman and man become keepers of each other's dignity and honor, and must equally respect the other. Been a long time since I've read the Quran so I have to look up other references.

My suggestion is that you read the source yourself, because there are a lot of people quoting the Quran with great authority based on what they have heard and not read. So good on you to make the distinction in what you know and what you've heard, it'll help you know what's what.

I might've misunderstood that, but I don't really think a dislike can really be justified if its balanced by its perceived opposing force, in this case the Americans. You have to have reasons for a blanket dislike.

See I don't buy that. I know plenty of Muslims who were insulted by the cartoons, sure, but they also thought the riots and cries for assassinations were ridiculous, stupid, and did a disservice to Muslims. So it wasn't the fault of all Muslims. You have the same crazies who are doing the other radical stuff reacting to the cartoons. The ones I know personally shook their heads at the cartoon, lamenting at the most that people didn't understand or relate to their sense of respecting religion. These are people who will not make fun of patriarchs of other religions because they find it deeply disrespectful. But did they call for fatwas and riots? No. They cursed the mullahs and rioters even more because their actions in the name of their faith sully its reputation and that of its followers.