Couldn't find a thread for this, so I thought I'd make one.

A particularly contentious topic, especially since the "Dumbledore is gay" debacle.


Personally, my views on what counts as canon, in order of importance, are as follows:

The Books.
The companion books.
JKR's website.
----
Post-DH interviews.
----
Pre-DH interviews.
The Movies.

As to what I view as fully irrefutable canon, I say the first three on the list (providing they don't contradict anything that comes from a source above them on the list).

The next one down (post-DH interviews) I view as generally correct so long as it doesn't contradict any of the above canon sources, but if a good logical argument can be made against it then I'll allow that it can be wrong.

The last two I consider on the same level - interesting, and something to take into consideration so long as they don't contradict any of the above canon sources, but I don't view them as canon.


I draw the distinction between pre-DH and post-DH interviews because before the series was finished she could contradict what she had said in an interview in subsequent books (and did so regularly). Now that the books are over, any interview answer she gives cannot be contradicted.

I place JKR's website above interviews because the content on there is fully thought-out before posting, whereas interviews are spur-of-the-moment answers and she could say something that she hasn't thought through and then regrets later.


Concerning out-of-book information that JKR gives us, I think it's important to see the difference between information that elaborates upon canon, and information which is independent of canon.

Information that elaborates on canon would be something like the fact that Squibs can't see Dementors: with the fact in mind, we can go back to canon and see evidence of it being there all along (Mrs. Figg gave a very poor physical description of them, and it was only when she described the feeling of Dementors that anyone was convinced).

An example of an independent piece of out-of-book information is Hermione's birthday, or the core of the Elder wand being Thestral hair.

Generally speaking, I consider "elaborated" information to be more canon than "independent" information.

Thoughts?

 

Everything before Half-Baked Plot.

Yes, I am serious.

 

I would go with your list Taure, it seems to put things in the appropriate order of importance. Though I do wonder if you can really say that the books themselves are more canon than the likes of Fantastic Beasts and Where to Find Them. If there was something contradictory between the series and the the supplementary book I would possibly say that the companion book would be what I would go with, as it was written with the topic specifically in mind, rather than with the overarching plot being the most important thing. (I don't know if there is such a contradiction, but knowing JKR there probably is).

 

Meh, I include anything she has said or written as Canon(not the movies), but that doesn't stop me from ignoring much of the information she has given us in the past couple years.

But yes, if something contradicts another, I will take the information from the highest on the list.

I don't read many stories that even try to stick to canon anymore, so it isn't really an important factor for me.

 

I like your ranking, Taure.
I also tend to accept reasonable fanon details, like Fidelius requiring a very powerful wizard (or else it would be in common use,) and an intelligent, powerful Harry, and Harry as a non-magickal animagus.
One of the main problems I have with Canon, however, is Ginny. I'll grant that she is an acceptable match for canon!Harry, but I disdain canon!Harry - and Ginny just doesn't match up to the Harry I like.

 

The seven books.

That's it.

I consider everything else to be supplemental to canon. I can ignore or accept the info contained in the interviews, reference books, web sites, etc., as I see fit, but canon starts and stops with the Harry Potter series.

 

The problem with that is that if you ignore any of it, you have to ignore all of it: if you have said that a single piece of out-of-book information can be ignored simply for the sake of it being out-of-book, then you have said that out-of-book information has no authority, and thus must reject it all.

Which is why I accept it unless it contradicts a source of greater authority.

 

TAURE DEMANDS THAT YOUR PERSONAL BELIEFS BE CONSISTENT!

 

True that.

 

Please refrain from using capitals!?

Canon is what the books say, anything that JKR says in interviews that can be fair and reasonably deduced from the books at a second glance I also consider canon. I am particularly wary in criticising Rowling's mistakes based on my now long term use of fan fiction, as I find a lot of criticism aimed at her is drawn from fanon ideologies. It doesn't happen here very often, where the criticism is mostly warranted, but I get quite annoyed when people confuse fanon ideologies with actual canon material. One of my biggest gripes for example is the continual use of the Unspeakables as some supreme fighting unit that are actually in control of all things magical.

 

I suppose it depends. When I'm reading fanfiction, I only regard canon when the author misspells canon terms. After that, the author's creativity makes or breaks the story - even if they stick to canon religiously.

As a writer? I suppose I consider everything Taure listed as canon...until I start writing. Then I pick 'n choose.

 

Why? Capitals denote shouting. I was shouting. Please refrain from improper use of interrobangs‽

Just had a rather enjoyable debate with Taure on IRC. What it came down to was that I said there's nothing wrong with cherry-picking the best parts of things JK has said in interviews and leaving the crap out (LOL DUMBLEDORE'S GAY FOR GRINDELWALD comes to mind). Taure says that people that do that are stupid. Tried to argue him down from 'stupid' to, say, 'not as pure as his method', but he buggered off to sleep.

The books are the core canon. Stuff she's said, if it makes sense and is useful, I add to my personal version of canon. If it seems not very well thought out or said purely to make headlines (again, Dumbledore's gay, lol), then bugger it. Not canon.

 

Personally, I don't care one way or the other about the definition of 'canon'. For one simple reason: I don't care.

Canon: What is in the fictional universe, including characters, settings etc. Fictional universe: what there is already in the books. What J. K. Rowling says are just her own ideas about the Potterverse. If that explains something in the books, that's good and all, but IMO we can ignore them without going into AU. If it is not written on the books, it is not canon.

Even if that definition doesn't meet people's standards, why do we care? For the sake of, what, authenticity? We write fanfiction for fuck's sake. You ignored some points of canon in your story? Big deal, it's not as if anybody frowns upon Alternate Universe stories.

Hell, who cares what exactly canon consists of? What'd be the use, except maybe for pointing at a story and saying, "Hey, this one doesn't follow canon!" Hell, no story ever will, by definition, unless Jo gets off her lazy ass and decides write a sequel to get more money.

- uncaring -

 

Personally, I disregard everything post-DH.

Most of the junk she says comes from an attempt to keep herself into the news.
(i.e. Gay Dumbledore)

 

Same. Everything else screams poor thought, attention whoring, or the movie folks pulling stuff out of their ass b/c they thought it looked good.

 

Same here.

If I was a fanfiction author, I would only take into account the 7 books, Fantastical Beasts, and perhaps some details off of her website and interviews only if they are relevant to the plot. Anything from the epilogue definitely wouldn't be taken into account, unless I was writing a post epilogue story. The epilogue sucks so hard though, that I can say that generally post epilogue fics are fail.

Some of the shit JKR has said in interviews I disdainfully disregard. For example, the sealed room in DoM containing a fountain of armortentia. What a load of BS. Honestly, we were better off not knowing what was in the room. It added a bit of mystery and piqued our collective curiosity (I know before it was revealed what was in the room, it was debated to death on various forums, and used imaginatively in some fanfics).

Some of the stuff in the later books seems contradictory to stuff in earlier books. For example, I think the Trace is contradictory to what is revealed about magical tracking in Half Baked Plot. Also, the wand ownership BS. I haven't read DH since the day after it came out, but there's a lot of other things I would probably disregard from DH if I were to read it again. Such as the Hallows. Unless the Hallows are relevant to your plot, you might as well throw them out seeing as how they came out of absolutely fucking nowhere. It seems like the Hallows were something JKR pulled out of her ass at the last minute as a sort of deux ex to tie up a few plots.

Basically, if you are a fanfic author, you can pick and choose whatever the fuck you want to consider canon and to include in your story. There are no rules for writing fanfics except the ones we hold in high regard here at DLP (Potter Laws).

 

Mainly, the first five books. Then I pick and choose from the last two. I'll take some spells like Sectumsempra, but I'd leave out how easily Gringotts was broken into, for example. Or I may warp around some things, to try to close as many plot holes as possible.

 

I remember a Star Wars fan referring to such ideas as brain bugs. I think the same would apply with the Unspeakables (even if the name is well suited as a title of an elite fighting force). What I would like to know is how the idea originated.

 

What do I consider canon? Books 1-7 and the two companion books. No more, no less.

I don't care what she posts on her website; I don't give a damn what the attention-hog says in interviews. If it's not mentioned in the above published works, then it's not canon. I treat her interviews as I treat the HP movies and other related shit: pointless rubbish.

 

If it isn't in the books, then it isn't 'canon.'

You don't change the rules and recognize or discount something because you don't like it, or because the author said something after she finished writing.

That this author is about as poor a published author in terms of keeping facts straight may make it more difficult, but the fact remains that canon for the HP series consists of what is written in the HP books.