We all know that the Knights of the Cross are basicly God's warriors on earth. One book said that Sanya was saved by Micheal the archangel. Then in Small Favor Uriel shows up and helps Dresden out with Soulfire and then talks to Dresden near the end. You have to wonder how much impact God and the archangels are gonna have from here on out in terms on Dresden and his battle against the Black Council or if they are only gonna help out when he fights Denarians.

 

Well it is interesting... so far he's worked God into the story without being outright pro Christian.

that's always good, and a little gutsy.

I still think Harry's going to take up the sword at some point.

Plus with the shroud that popped up earlier... I'm willing to bet another religious artifact will rear its head. Maybe the holy grail or something.

I think ultimately, a fallen is going to escape the other side and we might have an actual holy war on our hands.

 

A holy war to make Muslims and Christians (no offense meant to anyone) look like ants next to humans.

Maybe not a fallen but definitely an Outsider. Im willing to put money on the idea of He Who Walks Behind coming back and going 15 rounds with Dresden in the middle of Chicago.

 

Hmm...this aspect of Dresden always intrigued me.

I mean, he's pretty much outright said that Jesus was the Son of God etc. which would mean that Christianity is true. Not many books that will go so far as to outright say something like that.

I'm not sure what I think about it either. I would disapprove (coming out with something like that would really destroy a story) but for the way that Butcher has approached it.

In effect, he's made Christianity true, but he's also gone the pluralistic route of "one God, many ways of seeing it" (e.g. parable of the blind men and the elephant). I'm not sure how well this works in combination with the idea that Jesus was who he said he was though. Christianity is pretty exclusive.

 

With all the expanses of the Nevernever Butcher has basically said all religions are true and have an afterlife there. Christianity (the White God referenced by someone...) is more powerful then any other, and is featured more prominently, but still...

 

The series is supposed to be about 23 books long, with the final three being (And yes this is a quote from the author) "Apocalyptic books". From what I see the books are going to definitely involve the idea of christianity, but I don't think it's going to be in the vision of "perfect goodness". I think Harry is going to be "Gods" pawn in the war against the "Devil". It's been that way throughout the whole series, Harry has always been someones pawn in a grand scheme. We have no reason not to believe the trend won't continue, granted on a far larger scale.

In the end I think that Butcher will portray the Christian "God", as just another extremely powerful figure in the world. Much like Mab for example, with it's own agenda, that Harry will fit in somewhere.

 

The I saw it was that the "White God" was in fact the God from all of the major religions: Yahweh, Allah, etc.

 

But the White God was talked about it reference to Michael. Thus the Holy Trinity.

And John if you're serious about the "Apocalypse" in the last couple books you are my new best friend.

 

This is what I'm talking about:

One being - the White God - with many different personas on Earth: Christianity, Islam, etc. Each is a different aspect of the one being, but none have the whole truth.

 

I read it a while ago on Butchers forums and his main website, so yes it does seem to be right.

 

@Taure: Yet in Proven Guilty when the gang is preparing to storm Arctis Tor outside the movie theatre Dresden talks about all the different gods in the 'verse, with undercased g's. Charity objects and Harry explains the difference between them and the big G God.

It sounds to me like that was Shiro's belief, combining his Christian faith and his cultural/Buddhist/whatever faith.

 

Indeed. There are the gods: Thor, Zeus, etc, then there is the "White God".

But no one said that the White God was confined to just Christianity. After all, each of the 3 Abrahamic religions lay claim to the same God, only that the other 2 religions have been misled by a false prophet (or no prophet, in the case of the Jews).

 

I see your point, but the White God was in referance to Michael's belief. And Michael is definitly just Christian. I'm looking up the exact passage in Grave Peril but it could take a while.

 

Shiro said that its the belief in something that gives the Knights their power. Micheals faith in God gives him his power. Thats one of the things I like about him. His unwavering faith in God. He isnt willing to abandon his faith for anything.

I dont know that this is as epic as the chess game between Satan and God but it has been influenced by the two. The Knights of the Cross knowing Harry. The Denarians hating Harry. But I kinda doubt that it is nothing but a big chess game between God and Satan. It has much bigger implications than Chicago but I dont think its that big.

 

I'm just wondering, why haven't we seen Lucifer the fallen angel? Are there more than 30 fallen angels, but only those few got immortality in the shape of shiny coin?

 

Yeah, there are loads of fallen angels, the Fallen are merely 30 of them who can interact with the mortal world via coins.

Until he was informed of the Denarians, Dresden thought that fallen angels could not do anything in the mortal world. Presumably all who are not Denarians are still bound by this.

It would be interesting to see how the 30 Fallen were chosen.

But yeah, many many fallen angels. A third of the heavenly host, I believe is the traditional figure.

As far as I know, we haven't seen Satan yet, or had mention of him. I'm not sure if he even exists in the Dresdenverse. Even in church mythology, he's a bit vague: it's entirely possible and within the canon of the Bible that there isn't "the Devil". Satan, Lucifer, Leviathan, Bealzebub, the Serpent... we're never really given any reason to think that they're all one and the same, other than what the church teaches.

 

Actually Dresden does mention Lucy in Small Favor. Right at the end but it isnt anything definite.

 

Ah, haven't read SF yet. I'm still on Death Masks (only started reading recently).

Even so, I suspect that he's merely one fallen angel amongst many. A very powerful one, to be sure. But there's no reason to think that he's "The Devil", nor that he's the same being as Satan etc.

 

Hes on par with Micheal in power I think.

 

I'd say slightly below, since the myth is that he was beaten by Michael when cast out of heaven.

Incidently, Lucifer is also a name given to Jesus (the "morning star") in some parts of the Bible. Apparently God is not without a sense of comedic irony.