I suppose that is true (if they do stop tracking spells, which I'm not sure I buy, if only because of the differences between the two types of magic), though I still question where they would get these things.

I already stated why they'd have trouble getting a possession, so lets move onto names. DV wizards need the whole name, including any middle names.

I don't know about you, but I don't normally use my middle name.

In fact, I don't believe I've ever used my middle name.

And even if I did, I wouldn't give it to just anybody. I'd also question anybody who asked.

Also, don't forget that you need to use names pretty quickly, or they'll become useless.

 

As I said, it would be pretty difficult to get these things, but if they do it's 'bye bye Mr. Wizard' and 'hello heart-exploding curse'.

The only way a Name changes is if the person goes through a life changing event, so much so that they think of themselves as a different person. Harry would have a different Name after the debacle with Mavra's scourge. Susan would after becoming part-vampire. Michael will after Small Favor. So you only have to use it before something happens to change the target's Name...

Also, some people don't have middle names. I don't, so I'd be an easy target. Admittedly this is a flimsy argument, but there are some situations where your full name is required to be given, like when talking to the police.

 

Why would a HP wizard talk to the police? If something happens, they can just erase memories.

But whatever.

Don't forget how much power it takes to affect living beings. So, no, no heart exploding curses. Unless they have, like weeks to work on this spell. In which case, the HP wizard will probably find them somehow. And kill them. Don't forget the kill part.

It's very important.

 

That's the part where preparation comes in handy. You prepare the curse beforehand and gather the hair/nails/Name later...

As has been said, the problem with HP magic is that you cannot kill someone without what basically amounts to line of sight. If a Dresden wizard were able to gather the necessary parts and then retreat without being followed (since I imagine the Nevernever would be all but impossible to apparate in, given its non-Laws of Physics obeying nature), he would have the advantage.

In almost every other case it would be the HP wizard who would win, so the odds are stacked against them, but there are certain circumstances and tactics that could work (hiding beneath a veil and shooting them in the back, anyone?).

 

Perhaps preparing the curse would work, though I still want to know how he got the (insert substance). I'd also like to know why he's preparing this curse. I'd also like to know why he gets weeks or months of preparation time, while the HP wizard doesn't. I'd also like to know why the 'hide and shoot' tactic would work for a HP wizard (it would probably work better, since they don't mess with tech. They can use more advanced guns. See Kincaid's plan to kill Harry). I'd also like to know why apparition wouldn't work in the Nevernever, since they can apparate as well.

I'd also like to know why the HP wizard hasn't AK'd this fucker yet.

 

What? Since when did Apparation depend on the laws of physics? If there's something about the Nevernever that is specifically stated to make instantaneous magical transportation impossible, fine, but you can't say that being in a place that does not obey the laws of physics makes apparating harder.

I'll ask again: what does this mean? What's Dresden's force-of-will quotient? Protego is never mentioned to need 'force of will' to cast. So Dresden spells that are powered by will will go straight through them? The fact is, no-one has been able to advance the slightest reason why Thaumaturgical spells will penetrate the Fidelius, protego horriblus (spelling?), or any other serious HP protective enchantment.

The weaknesses in the game-ending-Thaumaturgy arguement are:
1.) The assumption that the HP wizard will do nothing whatsoever except loll around outside of a warded dwelling for however long it'll take the Dresden wizard to set up his intricate ritual, wait for the proper storm/source of power to come along, then cast the spell. Ryuugi raises a good point - this whole process leaves an intelligent HP wizard free to Apparate all over the place and gain valuable lead-time in tracking down the Dresden wizard.
2.) The assumption that the Thaumaturgical spell will get through any enchantments the HP wizard has set to protect himself and his place of residence/frequent occupancy. Reasons advanced so far to validate this - Dresden magic is strong, and it requires 'force of will' equal or better to Dresden himself to defeat one. Gasp!
3.) The Dresdenverse wizard has somehow managed to find skin, hairs, some random tiny particle off the HP wizard's body, yet somehow the HP wizard has missed completely the much easier to spot (being somewhat bigger and more noticable) Dresden wizard.

Edit:Forgot #4.)Harry James Potter, or Albus Percival Wulfric Brian Dumbledore, or Tom Marvolo Riddle, or whomever, go around introducing themselves by carefully enunciating their full names.

 

The 'when' and 'where' are not constant in the Nevernever. The 'where' being very important for apparition. The HP wizard would be able to apparate, but in doing so he would end up splinched in 50+ different pieces spread from the fairy courts to the demonic realms.

As far as DF warding working against apparition that is debatable since there is not enough information. But since DF magic can block interdimensional travel (ex. blocking entrance to the Never), it could probably be adapted, considering the current Merlin is supposed to be a warding genius (wards that take the power of a god to break anyone?). So unless the HP wizards manage to press the advantage early or keep apparition as a trump card later it is an advantage that they would quickly lose.

You are confusing ritual magic with thaumaturgy. The first is used by nonmagicals/weak practitioners. Thaumaturgy on the other hand depends on what you want to do. You want to be able to spy on people in your city? Make a perfect replica of your city so the magic will know where to go. But if you want to kill some one you can whip up a Voo-Doo doll on the fly.

That is true, but than again DF magic is not some thing you use on some one in their own home in the first place (unless you are very powerful). But looking at you first point what good do those protections do for him if he is standing in front of a DF wizard's house or apparateing all over the place? Not to mention the DF wizard has wards too.

More noticeable how? They both look human last time I checked. And if you mean in a battle situation, I can just as easily point out that apparition during battle and the AK are much harder to perform than what fanfiction authors would like us to think.

 

On the Nevernever, location is tied to concept more than geography, so even if a wizard apparates to a specific point in the Nevernever one time, it may not be there the second or third. A key point in apparation is being able to picture in your mind where you want to go, so how could you do that if the place you're picturing is gone?

Secondly, I have never said that gathering hair or blood would be a simple process, though if the Dresden wizard manages even a small cut on the HP wizard that blood can be used (if it is gathered and attached to some sort of thaumaturgic device - a voodoo doll being the obvious choice) to incapacitate or kill the HP wizard. Remember how Dresden locked up the loup garou in Fool Moon? He used a bit of blood (or fur, I can't quite remember) and a plush dog to effectively bind it with invisible cords. How easy would it have been to kill a person if they were in that position, when they can't move their hands enough to even cast a spell.

We've even seen Dresden use almost-old blood to track a person in Death Masks (I think it was Death Masks at least >_>), blood that had almost congaeled from being in the open air so long.

I'm not saying it would be easy, or that the odds are in the Drseden wizard's favour even slightly, but thaumaturgy is a powerful brand of magic and if an unwary (or just plain unlucky) HP wizard is put in a position like I've mentioned, he is all but screwed. Of course, he could put up a magical shield to protect himself for a while, but he has to sleep at some point, and he can't walk around constantly with a shield up.

Even apparation would only be putting off the inevitable, since thaumaturgic curses are basically like homing missiles with a degree of sentience.

 

I'm not completely sure that most Dresden-verse wards would work to well aginst Potter-verse magic. At one point Dresden explains that to build a strong ward you need to start off with a threshold to act as the fondation. Given that Potter-verse wizards are completely unaffected by thresholds, would wards that work by enhancing them have much affect.

 

For the sake of this discussion we're assuming that Dresden wards would actually effect a HP wizard, otherwise there is no contest in who would win. It doesn't facilitate a good conversation if one side can completely ignore everything the other side can do. Besides, if we discount apparation, Dresden wards would effect anything that touches them, and last time I checked, HP wizards are still people.

 

For the purposes of the discussion, we're assuming spells cast with one magic system to stop someone form doing something will work unless it is known very, very specifically what and how that spell does it. For example, if a Dresden wizard cast a shield that blocks specifically elemental attacks, and a HP wizard casts a Killing Curse at him, its safe to imagine the Curse would go through the shield. In your example though, its far safer to say Dresden wards could guard against Apparation, or perhaps be tailored to do so.

Edit: What Aekiel said. And I did not copy his words.

Regarding Apparation in the Nevernever, based on what Aekiel and Erud have said, it seems to me that it would be very hazardous and hard for a HP wizard to Apparate in, but much easier to Apparate out (because they already have the picture of the two areas - somewhere in the Nevernever and somewhere on Earth - in mind, and the difficulty with the latter is solved because they can just look around).

This is where the HP wizard would you a Shield spell. Nonverbal casting is a lot quicker than rigging up a voodoo doll. No to mention that if the HP wizard did get trapped in that position, he does have an advantage the werewolf didn't - Apparation.

Also, why does the Dresden wizard have time to either make or (if pre-made) use a voodoo doll-like thing if he's in the middle of a duel with the HP wizard.

You're right, there are situations where Thaumaturgy would catch a HP wizard unawares. However, most of these situation would occur when the wizard is relaxing (hence unaware that there's a Dresden wizard out trying to kill him), cannot reach his wand fast enough to initiate the Protego (again because the HP wizard doesn't know he's being gunned for - would you keep your very powerful primary weapon close at hand if you knew there was a wizard out to kill you?), or not at his presumably warded home.

A) Hopefully he'd sleep under his own protected roof,
B) Remember the Weasley's shield hats. (Probably) only good for one go, but unless the Dresden wizard is machine-gunning the HP wizard with Thaumaturgy spells, I'd say once would be enough.

You know what? The power of a god... ITS OVER NINE THOUSAND MANA POINTS! What'll those poor HP wizards do when the find out they don't actually have any?

What do you mean? Sure, I think the automatic rifle most wands become in fanfiction as they spew out 100 Avada Kedavras per minute is wrong and ridiculous, but remember Apparation is a spell you learn in school. As for the Killing Curse, perhaps it is harder (although based on what we know of HP magic, practice would certainly make it easier), but do not forget that the AK is not the only offensive magic in the HP world. They can cause people's chests to explode too, you know.

Does anyone have some quotes of what Thaumaturgical spells feel like (besides the chest-splattering, obviously) to the person its targeting? Is it instantaneous? Would a targeted wizard feel anything, have any slight chance of blocking it? If so, why hasn't someone collected a hair that fell off of one of the White Councilmembers during a meeting and instantly killed them?

 

To apparate, you just need to keep in mind a place. For example, Arctis Tor. Where that location is doesn't matter, as long as you keep it in mind. For those still not following, as long as you keep in mind a location, even if it's a hundred miles away from where it was, you can apparate there.

Once again, can I have a book and page number (or at least quote) of where they stopped entrance from the Nevernever. I'm not denying they can or did, but I'd like to know where.

Also, I had no idea we were using the Merlin (or someone of equvalent power) as our DV wizard, since I've been using an average or at most above average wizard. But, hey, if you going to let me use Voldemort...Well...how do I say this...the DV wizard is-

Actually, I have no words to describe how fuck he or she is.

Also, it takes time and energy to make wards (espesically good ones), not to mention the DV wizard would need some time to actually figure out how to design the ward. What has the HP wizard been doing?

Yes, perhaps making a voo-doo doll wouldn't be that hard (though I question why the HP wizard hasn't killed him yet, since he's had to make wards, and get voo-doo dolls). However, it would take some time to gather the power nessicary to kill a person.

Well, if a HP wizard has found your location, and is in front of your house, the DV wizard better work fast. Otherwise he's fucked.

The DV wizard would be easier to notice since he's kind of bigger then a piece of hair, or drop of blood. And no, apparition doesn't seem to hard in the books, nor does casting the AK, considering the number of people doing it.

I already explained the apparition thing.

I must say, I wonder as to how the DV wizard got this 'device', as well as to how he cut the HP wizard, since the don't really get close in fights. I mean, most of their spells are mid to long range. Why the hell is he close enough to cut?

Yeah, it was almost dried, an Harry said the spell was weak and quickly fading, if memory serves. Meaning the HP wizard would just need to, oh, caste a fire spell to dry the blood, or keep the DV wizard distracted for awhile to stop him from using any strong spells.

He might not be able to walk around with his sheild up, but he can apparate home. Or just put up some wards, since HP wards go up fast.

Homing missles that stop at a Threshold. Unless the DV wizard has had months of preperation. In which case, why exactly hasn't the HP wizard killed him or her yet?

 

I for one haven't been thinking about any specific wizard from either side, but more about the known potentials of the different magic systems.

 

In that case, things don't look good for the DV

 

Well, the HP wizard does have advantages, but overall the two magic systems seems very well balanced. You certainly wouldn't need to go through any great contortions with the magic to write a balanced crossover.

 

Truth be told, the DF wizards would be screwed by the sheer numbers. Even the weakest of HP casters received an education on how to use their magic while DF divides theirs into practitioners (who are left mostly to their own devices) and the White Council, the above average few who received appropriate training. If it came down to a battle of attrition there is no question who would win.

I gave the Merlin because he was mentioned as a wards expert and a good example of what a DF wizard is capable of once he reaches a certain age. It is safe to assume that anyone of the members of the Senior Council is capable of similar feats, thou in different areas. And not only the Senior Council, when Ebenezar was chosen to be part of it there was a whole list of other wizards who had seniority over him.

 

True, but the Merlin is arguable the most powerful wizard in the World, and is with out a doubt in the top 5. Maybe 3.

Putting him up against an Average HP wizard is stupid. And making him fight Voldemort is also stupid. I mean, the only reason the guys in HP beat Voldemort is because of Deus Ex Machina, Dumbledore, and Da Powa of Luuuuuuuuuuv.

I outright refuse to put the Merlin against Dumbledore, since he's basically Voldemort plus a hundred years of experiance, plus a brain. The Merlin would be so fucked it's not even funny.

 

As far experience goes the Merlin is 400+ years old, but in either case it would be a fight to see, no matter who would win. I have this image in my head of the two rampaging through London destroying landmarks, only to die of heart attacks in the end.

 

Well, I guess it sort of depends on if Dumbledore is actually going for the kill. If he is, he wins, and Merlin dies. If he's not, he still probably wins, but Merlin actually has odds (thousand to one odds, but odds nevertheless).

 

Out of curiosity, how are you calculating this?