I am of two minds about this.

I think that Naruto has given too much away too easily. He told Team 8 that Gaara was a jinchuuriki, he told Sakura too much about Orochimaru and the cursed seals...

It feels like Naruto is setting himself up for suspicion and for all eyes to be on him.

Unless that is what he and Pain want?

On the other hand, it's another chapter of a story I like very much, so I can't complain. I just don't want you falling off the wagon and fucking this story up. A good Akatsuki!Naruto story is too rare in this world of subpar fanfiction.

 

It all depends on what you think Naruto is trying to accomplish with all of this.

I'll just throw this out there, though:

If Naruto was trying to be sneaky, he probably wouldn't have bothered entering himself in the exams, right?

The Hanzou getup isn't there to look cool.

The free information isn't there to show how knowledgeable Naruto is or how stupid the Konoha genin are.

There's an agenda here.

 

Then it goes back to the hiding in plain sight motif that I talked about a couple pages back. Make everyone think that there is a tangible connection between Hanzou and Naruto so that Pain and Akatsuki are totally in the clear.

Perhaps the idea behind Naruto dropping information to the Rookie 9 is to show Sarutobi that Hanzou has his eyes on things? Hanzou doesn't like Konoha, but he dislikes Orochimaru more? Something to think about.

Also, in Chapter 7, after Hanzou's death, you talked about the fact that Hanzou had an extensive collection of journals about every ninja of note he heard about or encountered, including the Sannin and the Yellow Flash.

I'd be very interested to hear what Hanzou had to say in his journals about Minato, the only man who made Hanzou turn away from battle, and the Sannin, who he had a close victory over, who were the best and brightest Konoha had to offer, but eventually disintegrated into debauchery, alcoholism, and madness. Jiraya, Tsunade, and Orochimaru respectively.

Thoughts?

 

I wouldn't say that Hanzou had a close fight against the Sannin. He pretty much crushed them without breaking a sweat - along with a whole slew of Konoha ninjas that he killed or knocked unconscious.

I will say that my Hanzou would certainly not look kindly on the Sannin seeing as they disappeared from the spotlight despite going on to become well known and respected ninja.

Orochimaru's betrayal of Konoha and other machinations wouldn't sit well with a character like Hanzou.

That will come into play later.

 

Howdy...

Can you give a quick overview of what exactly the difference of power means?

A-class ninja, S-class ninja, SS-class ninja, B+C-class ninja? How do the different levels stack up in terms of power, skill, and lethality?

If Hanzo was SS-class when he beat the Sannin bloody, what level were they at then?

What class would old Sarutobi be classified as, or Naruto, if he was low to mid jounin at eight and is thirteen now?

 

Ok.

I see it like this.

The lower levels are fairly straightforward. D and C are genin. B are your average chuunin. A are your solid jounin - think guys like Genma, Hayate, Raidou, and Aoba.

A-S it gets tricky. Dudes like Zabuza, Asuma, and pre-skip Kakashi - who are elite jounin - are right on the cusp of S-rank.

In general, S-ranked ninja have the distinction of being incredibly powerful. All of Akatsuki (with the possible exception of Hidan, who probably falls back into the same realm of power as the elite jounin with the added advantage of immortality) - who show the ability to defeat large groups of powerful ninjas - are easily S-ranked. Post-skip Kakashi also falls into this zone.

SS-rank, while not mentioned in the manga, constitutes the "flee on sight" order given regarding Minato. The ninja that achieve this rank are those that a ninja should never pick a fight with. While not infallible, these ninja have such prodigious power and skill that any plot to defeat them is almost sure to go awry.

Current manga Pain and Madara would almost certainly fall into this category as well.


In my mind, the Sannin - who were probably in their early twenties when they met Hanzou - were most likely at the elite jounin level, right on the line between A and S rank. It's wasn't their incredible power that caught Hanzou's attention, but their youth and potential.


As far as my Naruto is concerned - you'll just have to wait and see. Cruel, I know.

One thing I think people all need to understand though is that even canon Naruto was far above even chuunin level at the end of Part 1.

Kishimoto had to reign him in in order to keep his manga going, because if Naruto had progressed over the two and a half year time skip at the same rate he did over the 6 months to a year that Part 1 covered, he would have slaughtered Akatsuki with relative ease come Part 2.

Naruto was capable of Rasengan, boss summon, and mass shadow clones by then. He could also draw on a small amount of Kyuubi's power and had very good speed and strength.

Keep in mind that he was able to keep up with Sasuke, who was said to have mimicked Rock Lee's own prodigious speed by the end of the Chuunin Exams.

My Naruto has a larger repertoire of skills and much, much more combat experience than canon Naruto did.

Having said that, I have to point this out:

There is a glass ceiling in this manga when it comes to strength, speed, and other such abilities. There's a reason why we don't see even the most powerful villains winning fights by speed blitzing all of their opponents. In order to surpass this ceiling, a ninja needs to create techniques or draw on other powers to enhance their strength or speed.

There's a reason why Tsunade created her super strength technique, why Jiraiya learned Sage Mode, and why Minato and Madara created powerful space/time ninjutsu.

Currently, Naruto has none of these abilities in his repertoire. As a result, he still has a long way to go before he ranks up among the strongest characters.

 

War.

From what it looks like, it's bound to happen in your story. The only question I have is how are you going to portray it? Is it going to be all out field combat (like most fics do) or is it going to be stealth? (i.e. Shinobi from Village A assassinates Village B but makes it look like Village C who was the ones who did the murder.)

Also, are you going to go into detail ( not too much ) for other Villages?

 

Are you talking about the glass ceiling in terms of sheer human limits?

Tsunade's super strength technique or the Hiraishin is a way of cheating, like any good ninja ought to do, and move beyond what is possible. The Flying Thunder God moves you at the speed of light, and is near impossible to defend against.

There is something to the idea that 'hard work' in the vein of Guy and Lee does have it's limits and then you have to find some way to move beyond the limitations of the flesh.

And you didn't say what Sarutobi's power levels were. It was said in Chapter 8 by Danzo that Sarutobi was old, and it was unclear if he could break even or prevail over Orochimaru. Age does have a toll in regards to skill or chakra levels, I guess. What's your assessment of the Professor?

And in regards to Hidan, I would call laziness on that one. Hidan has the immortality given by his god, so killer techniques are secondary if he can just power through and brute force his way to a victory. I read in a fic with Hidan once that the price Jashin took from his worshipers for their immortality was that Jashin took their chakra as payment. What say you to that?

 

This is exactly what I'm talking about.

Sarutobi is an S-ranked ninja. In his prime, he was most likely one of the strongest in the entire world - the strongest Kage. I personally don't believe that he ever was considered stronger than Hanzou, given the way Jiraiya spoke of the Salamander, but my fic hints at the fact that the two have fought on and off in the past.

Too many people see Orochimaru call Sarutobi the "God of ninja" during their final battle and take it as the gospel truth - that Sarutobi was the strongest ninja ever in his prime. What they fail to realize is that Orochimaru is a patronizing bastard. He always trys to downplay his opponents in battle. You see it again when he fights against Naruto in Part 2.

Old Sarutobi has many tricks but just can't last that long in a fight. In my opinion, a solid number of Akatsuki members could take him on in his weakened condition and win - including Orochimaru.

Databook 3 cleared this up for us.

Hidan was a ninja of the Village Hidden in the Hot Springs (I'm not making this up). The village had such a vibrant tourism industry that they decided to leave the shinobi business altogether. This didn't sit well with Hidan - who loved killing. He went on a rampage and slaughtered everyone he could find on his way out of the village. After a time, he found the Jashin religion and converted.

Hidan received his power as the result of experimentation done on him by the Jashin cult. In order to maintain his immortality, however, he must slaughter enemies continuously for as long as he lives. If he can no longer kill, he dies.

When Pain tells Akatsuki in the manga that Hidan is dead - he means just that. Hidan's power gave out and his body died.

In a sense, I agree with you. Hidan relies on his immortality and his ritual to defeat his enemies. On the other hand, the man is just as quick as Kakashi and therefore has no mean amount of basic skill. Therefore I see him at the elite jounin rank.

 

I never read the manga or watched the series, but from all the fandom I've read I always felt that Naruto relied on his retardedly high chakra levels to overwhelm and weardown an enemy (leaving him exhausted to the point of unconsiousness) too much rather than actual skill. It's one of the main reasons I love your fic so much, while Akatsuki takes advantage of his ability to mass kill people with hundreds of clones, your Naruto is calm and calculated when it comes to fights.

I was hoping you (or someone else) could answer a question that has been nagging me for a little while; I know Naruto has failed the genin exam twice before cannon starts, but does that mean he was in class with Tenten/Neji/Lee and even a year before them? Or do they have three times to pass the genin test before team selections each year?

 

It's never explained or even hinted at by canon, but I think it's fair to say that most academy students don't have to take the test more than once, let alone three times.

On the other hand, there's no indication that Naruto had any prior interaction with the older genin.

It's very ambiguous.

And in regards to wearing his enemies down - I can't think off the top of my head of a single fight where that happened in canon.

Generally he follows the shounen stereotype of finishing with big attacks.

 

Naruto had the skills, he just never used them in any intelligent manner, thus wasting them. Had he actually used any stratagem and not simply charge the enemy, he could have easily beaten jounins.

The most logical explanation is that the Hokage simply allowed Naruto take the exam early because the brat kept bothering him, despite knowing Naruto had absolutely no chance of passing them. Flashbacks show Naruto with Kiba and Co. in the school, and so it's unlikely that he ever attended a different class.

 

There's something off about the Naruto power scheme:

1. Kyuubi > Minato
2. Minato > Basically, all known ninja
3. Therefore:
Kyuubi > everybody
4. But... Naruto + 3 Tails = Akatsuki member? How does that work?

I think even 1/3 of the Kyuubi's power should've been enough to defeat Minato. Of course, who's to say that 3 tails does equal 1/3 of the Kyuubi's power... but still, was Minato strong enough in his prime to solo the Ichibi? Could he or any other ninja defeat a Bijuu without some sealing jutsu? Shouldn't Gaara be stronger than he is in Canon? Shouldn't the Bijuu/Jinchuuriki be more powerful? They seem much weaker than they should be, if Minato is truly as powerful as he is. A transformed Shikaku should be more than enough for a ninja nation.

Or is it simply that Bijuu have such extensive regenerative capbilities (we don't really know if they even have corporeal bodies or not, though the fact Naruto stood on the Ibichi's nose is some evidence that they do) that it makes them fierce?

Howdy, are "SS" (lol I keep thinking Nazis, better change it to something like "U" (uber) or "Z" class ninja) ranked ninja on par or stronger than most Bijuu? Yes your Naruto is more skilled and experienced than in canon, but doesn't his demonic trait make up for the fact he has no super spacetime technique?

 

Bijuu, in my mind, have to have their strength measured in a different way than ninja are measured.

A strong ninja is one that is not only skilled in combat but also has access to many powerful abilities.

A bijuu, on the other hand, is a chakra manifestation that is essentially a giant monster that stomps around and crushes things. Some also have skill with manipulating chakra such as Shukaku's Drilling Air Bullet and Hachibi's Cero.

We know that bijuu have physical bodies since we see them affect the environment around them (Kyuubi creating the VotE and Sanbi swimming after Madara) and that they can be cut (Ichibi and Hachibi).

We also know that they can be incapacitated through means other than sealing (Madara KOing Sanbi and Hashirama entangling Kyuubi).

The bijuu obviously have varying levels of power - Kyuubi being far and away the strongest.

In my mind, the other eight can be considered the lesser bijuu and can be defeated and subdued by ninja means with relative ease. Kyuubi, on the other hand, required Minato to sacrifice his life using a breakthrough ninjutsu in order to defeat it.

As to your question - I think it's possible that through their various techniques high ranking ninja can defeat or subdue the bijuu.

In a flat out fight, a character like Hanzou could probably defeat some of the lesser bijuu thanks to the strength and scale of his abilities.

Minato, on the other hand, was a completely different type of fighter than I depicted Hanzou to be, focusing more on speed and precision attacks than large area techniques. I don't think a Rasengan would be enough to take down any of the bijuu - which is why Minato relied on his sealing skills when faced with the Kyuubi.

In other words, I don't think that the rank of a ninja is directly proportional to the amount of damage he can deal.

I'll give you an example:

Chouji, as a genin, could use his Multi-Size technique to take out a good portion of a city block, yet I don't think anyone would compare him favorably with Neji, who couldn't even come close to doing that kind of damage, given his arsenal.

Raw power is not the only consideration taken into account when assessing a ninja's skill. If that was the only aspect that mattered, the bijuu would almost never be defeated by ninja. Versatility is just as, or even more, important than raw strength and destructive power alone.

Deidara exhibits the strongest offensive capabilities of anyone in the manga yet that didn't stop Sasuke or Madara from overcoming his ultimate technique.

I think it's hard to lump bijuu and ninja into one big power scale. They should instead be looked at as different types of characters with different strengths and weaknesses.

 

How about when you compare them with characters that do rely on pure power to get them through, like Gai and Lee when they use the Celetial Gates. Would Gai be able to defeat the Hachibi if he opened all eight Gates? Kyuubi I hold as being too powerful for even that no matter the circumstances, and can only be dealt with through sealing.

 

Impossible to say, really, given that we've never seen a bijuu struck by a physical attack aside from Gamabunta's sword.

Off the top of my head, I'd say that they might do some damage, but to bring down a being of that size would take a bit more than kicks and punches.

Gai's Celestial Gate ninjutsu is probably a different story, though.

 

Nicely put.

EDIT: The one about power levels and stuff.

 

What I am looking forward seeing is what naruto can do with wind chakra when he seriously fighting a opponent. Supposedly the sound genin team got killed by tigers it obviously at least to me naruto work.

 

And why not?

Literally dozens of Oto ninja do the exact same thing during Orochimaru's Invasion using the Chuunin Exam as an excuse to enter the village.

For a person with no ninja record of any kind outside of Ame and no apparent ninja skills, gear, or training, I think it's perfectly feasible. I also tried to give the impression that she was just another pretty face.

People go in and out of the village all the time and don't get stopped and interrogated. I'd also like to point out that even if she were stopped, the ninja would have found nothing incriminating.

It's one thing to take artistic license, in my opinion, and another to completely disregard canon.

Both are acceptable in fanfiction, but one rubs me wrong, especially when the author of the manga goes out of his way to explain things to his readers.

The Naruto world has very few hard "rules" laid down that govern how ninja powers work. Simply throwing those handful of rules out in favor of making up your own cool powers seems incredibly lazy to me.

You can do pretty much anything with ninjutsu while working within the rules of the manga. Authors just have to be a bit more creative.