Howdy...

What you are saying and what you've said about Konoha reminds me of a few other stories I've read that are critical of Konoha and analyze things in a logical way, to me.

Have you ever read Naruto's Compensation, by Disobediencewriter? What comes to mind applying to what you said is this from Chapter 8:

Taro held up his arm and the four of them stopped moving. He turned to face his students and motioned them off the road.

“We are within five kilometers of Hidden Leaf. Once we enter the walls, we will speak only in code or through hand signals unless absolutely necessary. Understood?”

One, Two, and Three all nodded.

“This village will seem very welcoming. In my own time here, I have observed that failing. People who enter Hidden Leaf believe they are safe because Hidden Leaf is supposed to be invulnerable, the strongest of all the Hidden Villages. People, even experienced ninja, relax their guard here.

“Let me remind you to always be on your guard. Hidden Leaf is deceptively welcoming. It is a dangerous place, especially when it opens its doors to the jounin-genin teams from other villages during a tournament like this one.

“I will be very displeased with all of you if any of you is harmed in this place. You are genin of Grass and have proven satisfactory in your acquisition of skills….”

Number Two raised her hand. “Number Four, you sound like you dislike this village?”

Taro nodded. “That is correct. It is the reason I am giving you this warning.”

“Why, Number Four?”

Taro was quiet a moment. “A ninja village is a military installation, by definition. In this place, they have forgotten that. They proclaim open principles; rule by military and civilians; a respect for peace and prosperous life and well-treated ninja. The truth, in my infiltration work, is very different. The Tsuchikage is a hard, horrible bastard; everyone knows that. The Hokage, known as the God of Shinobi in these parts, is a kind, powerful, respectable gentleman…but he’s done things even worse than the Tsuchikage would even dream. We’re ninja, but we’re often taken in by surface appearances. I despise this place and I would be sure that none of you are hurt here.”

Number Two wasn’t done with her questions yet. “If you hate this place, why did you agree to bring us here?”

“Because we’re the best. Grass must live up to its fine reputation.”

That gave slight smiles to the genin team. It was as close to a compliment as they would ever hear.

“My final words on this topic. Be careful here. This place is more political than any other village I’ve been in…and I’ve been to all of them. They will sacrifice a ninja or a hundred ninja to save a civilian if it would make them look good to the eyes of the wider world. They claim to have a will of fire, but their strength is a sham. When you come up against them in battle, you will find them weak. Do not kill them; do not martyr them; rather, expose their weaknesses and hobble them. Questions?”

The genin had nothing to say. They had their orders. Maim and wound the others in the tournament; expose the weakness.

This story is true Puppeteer!Naruto. Much, much better than Puppet Master Naruto.

Thoughts?

 

Didn't read that story since I'm not a fan of cripple!Naruto. That doesn't make much sense to me given his prodigious healing and the assumed protections he had placed around him to prevent extreme physical harm. Also, a puppeteer, no matter how strong, could never beat characters like Pain or Madara in my estimation. There's hard work and there's pipe dreams.

But that's just me.

Anyways...

I suppose I agree and disagree.

Konan, in my story, disliked the attitude of the civilians and the lower ranking shinobi because they didn't act like they lived in a ninja village. They were content with their peace and just drifted along until the next crisis rose up. They put too much faith in their kind-hearted leaders.

Having said that, I don't view the Leaf village as weak. Not at all. When put to the test, the Will of Fire comes into play and the Leaf village can be truly nasty and resilient.

Instead of pre-empting external and internal threats by being constantly vigilant, Konoha sails from crisis to crisis and then reacts. As a result, the village has to sacrifice a lot.

Konoha is historically the strongest village. This is easy to understand.

Can you imagine how strong they were when Hashirama, Tobirama, and Madara were all wearing the leaf? How about when Sarutobi was younger, the Sannin were active, and Minato was rising?

They'd crush anything.

In general, though, the civilians and lower level ninjas aren't made privy to the harsh realities of ninja life until it's crisis time.

That's the problem I try to bring forth in my story. It's why Konan looks down on the weak Konoha ninjas she sees and why Naruto is somewhat shocked at the naivety of the Konoha genin he meets.


Also: I laughed at Grass's fine reputation. What reputation was that, exactly? And telling his students that Konoha genin are weak when they have some of the strongest clans in the ninja world? There was a reason why the prelims had fifteen leaf nins and only six foreigners.

The author is obviously trying to make this jounin look worldly and wise, and then ruins it all by saying that Leaf is weak. The dude reeks of fodder.

 

C'mon, Howdy!

Kyuubi's chakra does have regeneration abilities, but regrowing a severed leg might be too much. In canon, Naruto or any of the other demon containers never had to deal with a severed limb, and severed limb!Naruto in fanon, from what I've read, has Kyuubi pulling some deus ex machina and regrowing the lost limb, or by God, giving Naruto a furry fox arm.

Disobediencewriter even addresses this in Chapter 21.

That hadn’t been an easy conclusion to draw. But Naruto had exhausted what he knew of military might. He’d even had a fucking visit with the Kyuubi no Kitsune. The short answer: the beast was useless for Naruto’s purposes save for permitting Naruto an almost limitless amount of chakra.

Even that came at a cost. Naruto had to fight all the time to maintain excellent chakra control. If he went a day without using chakra cables, the next day was twice as hard to work the technique. Plus, aside from the Kyuubi in his mind addressing Naruto as ‘a damned cripple,’ when Naruto attempted to test the demonic chakra – as Gaara had done at the Chuunin Selection Exams – his body was wracked with pain, specifically the stump of his left leg. It was almost as if the Kyuubi was attempting, and failing, to regrow the leg.

The Kyuubi’s power was useless for the puppeteering lifestyle…and for someone with a massive disability.

But I do agree with what you said about Konoha. The little people are fine with skating from one shitstorm to the next in happy ignorance while the Hokage gets white hair and premature baldness trying to keep the ship from sinking.

But you have to answer me this. Is the fact that the Leaf is sailing from disaster to disaster now due to the fact that Sarutobi is in charge, and is too tired and burnt out to beat somebody's ass?

In Chapter 1, you wrote that Minato wouldn't have stood for Kumo making such outrageous demands of Konoha. Are you saying that it takes a young and vigorous leader like Minato to be a hardass when the time calls for it and it is the fact that Minato is not here and Sarutobi is that has caused things to slip?

Or is this laziness and passivity endemic of Konoha's general populace?

Also: Grass's fine reputation? Not everyone goes to Konoha for ninja services. Perhaps Grass has a reputation for not making waves. There is something to just doing your job without flash. That's why there are other villages. And you can have the strongest clans and ninja in the world, but are they as strong mentally as they are physically? If that's the case, why do the Hyuuga enslave their family with the Caged Bird Seal? Why did the Uchiha self destruct, even taking into account outside influence in the fall of that great clan?

 

Konoha cannot have open borders and have any semblance of sense of security. It may simply be that Konoha wants its enemies close, that's how I see it. I can't believe ninja trained in the arts of lying and deception would allow complete strangers to enter its village without reason, when it's obvious that at least someone among the many is a spy.

By allowing entrance, Konoha allows itself to keep tabs on who's entering and leaving the village, they just keep that mechanism under the guise of weakness. I dislike stories that seem to make Konoha out to be some weak group of bumbling idiots. How is Konoha so strong, then? There must be a reason for Konoha's status, unless you want to say that the only reason they're still around is because of Minato and Sarutobi.

 

Alright. I'll admit that gimping Naruto is as good a plot device as anything else you can come up with. I'll just point out that the kid regrew a lung in seconds and leave it at that.

Sadly, you pointed out another problem that I'd undoubtedly have with the story.

A jinchuuriki not able to draw on his bijuu's power? I think it's been shown enough times in the manga that the relationship between hosts and bijuu is a symbiotic one. Sure they can fight with one another over control as Naruto does with Kyuubi, but I just don't see a jinchuuriki turning their power on and off like flipping a lightswitch.

Puppeteers were cool two years ago when we saw Sasori for the first time. Now it's pretty obvious that that little nich of ninja-dom isn't quite up to snuff. Especially when it has such horrible weaknesses to exploit (just as Sakura and Chiyo eventually did).

I don't buy into SerpentSannin's nonsense about it being all sneaky and chakra efficient. I don't see Kisame dilligently focusing on chakra control. It's just not the ultimate ninja skill.

And frankly, the manga sort of rules out any chance of Naruto ever attaining a high level of chakra control. It takes Jiraiya all of five minutes to tell Naruto he should be focusing on power and not control.

I suppose you could go way AU with this, which I assume this author does, but it's just not something that appeals to me.


I don't blame Sarutobi for Konoha's mindset. Konoha, in my mind, is much more open and generally friendly than other villages. They don't live in the constant shadow of military presence, despite their major money-maker. It's been like that as long as the village has been around - part of the Shodai's ideology. It's idealistic and it's not perfect.

As far as Minato went, I'd say most of his clout was due to his strength and wild popularity.

Sarutobi was leading a village who wanted nothing more than for the Third War to end. They were tired of the fighting, so he allowed a rather distastful thing to occur in the persuit of peace.

Minato was a principled and ideological person in my mind (this is based on his hope for Naruto to be seen as a hero - which was a major misstep on his part). He would have gladly fought the Raikage over the issue, and in my telling he would have been popular enough to bring the people of Konoha along with him to war.

I doubt it would have gotten much further than that considering Kumo was willing to sue for peace with Konoha even after Minato died. With him around the war would have been over much more quickly and decisively.

It's not that Sarutobi had a weak will - he just didn't have the personal or political power to continue persuing a war with Kumo.

I want to apologize if my story has given the impression that I don't like Sarutobi or that I think he has a weak character. I don't think that, and I didn't particularly write my story to portray that.

My Sarutobi took precautions to make sure that Naruto was safe (despite the scene Konan witnesses, Naruto was not constantly beaten and abused, though he was distinctly unpopular). He is regretful for not keeping Naruto safer, and feels that he failed in his responsibilities because of it.

Sarutobi was said to be the strongest Kage in the manga, and I believe that at one point that was the truth - though my Hanzou always trumped him in terms of raw power. As I mentioned, they fought more than once in the past and Sarutobi was always able to pull through.

Sarutobi is a widely respected figure in the shinobi world - not only because of his strength but also because he's a reasonable voice and a powerful leader.

He's not a sentimental idiot, though he is sentimental.

 

I guess then we'll have to agree to disagree on the first issue. I do like Naruto's Compensation for a couple reasons, namely that the way in which this AU is written, the story doesn't fly apart in a million smoking pieces.

That's a plus for it, and for your story as well, as your AU also doesn't seem to be coming apart at the seams.

And it does seem to me to be the best puppeteer!Naruto story out there and it's consistent enough that I like it quite a bit.

That said, I personally never got into Naruto heavily until I started reading the fanfiction. Then it caught onto me and never let go. The anime? Way too long. The manga? Also too long and convoluted in parts.

Back to your fic, I can and do accept it for what it is, but Sarutobi really should know better, considering thet he has survived to be an old ninja and considering the shit he's seen, he should know people better.

He should know that 'hope' is a four letter word, and just because he hoped Konoha and it's people will be sunny side up doesn't make it so.

This reminds me of what was said in Chapter 1 between Sarutobi and Danzo, with Danzo getting on Sarutobi's case for being sloppy with Naruto, which is true. What good did Sarutobi expect to happen from Naruto just being around?

I'm not saying that Danzo's mindless weapon approach would have been the answer, but a structured environment, as opposed to the streets? If Sarutobi knew that the villagers were so opposed to Naruto's presence, as he was the demon container, why have him out on the streets where his very presence would inflame people?

Moving on, in Chapter 1 when Konan and Naruto are talking, Naruto knows that people seriously don't like him. Konan then says that the Ninja Academy teachers could and would most likely sabotage Naruto's education because Sarutobi couldn't watch them all the time. Had Naruto stayed, that's most likely what would have happened.

This goes back to the idea that if Naruto as a person is such a bone of contention, why does Sarutobi leave him out in the open to stir up trouble just by being there? As the demon container, Naruto is far from an ordinary citizen, as much as Sarutobi admonished Danzo for having an operative shadow Naruto's ANBU detail and watch a mere boy, as he says.

Naruto was never a mere boy, ever. Sarutobi never seemed to fully recognize that where it counted, so we are where we are with things.

Thoughts?

 

I can't really defend Sarutobi's decision making since I don't particularly agree with it.

I tried to write a canon Sarutobi as best I could that had to react to the fact that, instead of Naruto being left alone to make his way as a Leaf ninja, he was whisked away by hostile forces for nefarious means.

We don't know much about Naruto's childhood aside from the fact that he became rather boisterous and annoying, had difficulty with his ninja training that was quickly turned around after he became a genin, and that he was subject to, and cognizant of, the cold feelings most of the villagers had towards him.

We know that Sarutobi had an unusually close relationship with Naruto. I take this to mean that he took a more hands-on role in Naruto's life than he did with others, but obviously didn't take Naruto in.

My Sarutobi wanted Naruto to grow up with a normal childhood (relatively) and grow into a Leaf shinobi in the usual way. Naruto was not made a jinchuuriki to act as a weapon, so far a Sarutobi knew (I think Minato was a little more forward thinking than we've seen so far, but that's just me).

In retrospect, Naruto probably should have been raised as an asset to the village as Killer Bee and Yugito were, but in canon we can already see some resentment on Killer Bee's part towards his own brother over that sort of tack being chosen.

In canon, Sarutobi's decisions worked out fine. In my story, he made the same decisions but they fell apart on him.

That's the only difference I intended.

 

Fine....

Enough busting your balls for today on this. I'll call it a draw.

Lucky bastard...

That said, how soon is Chapter 10 in the pipeline?

 

Good question.

I lied a bit in my A/N. I haven't got all of the fights mapped out yet, though the important one is.

I think I'm going to keep Sakura/Ino, Temari/Tenten, and Kankuro/StretchyGuy the same. No one cares about these guys much, right?

I got a few perturbed reviews for this last chapter by some barely literate hacks for the canon compliance though, so that might encourage me to move quickly on this.

Chapter 9 was easily my least favorite chapter so far, so I'd like to move past it quickly.

Having said that, I write when I feel inspired to do so. Most of my chapters involve a week of mapping out the action in my head and two days of actual writing.

I'd say it'll be at minimum a week and at max two weeks until you get chapter 10.


It sort of makes me laugh that people are telling me that my Naruto in my story is out of character and that he shouldn't be talking to the enemy, Konoha.

How do they know that Konoha is the enemy?

Shit, I don't think that even Pain would come out and say that Konoha was his enemy. I've tried to make both Pain and Naruto rather indifferent to most of the political and military entities outside of Rain Country.

It makes me want to move past this whole stage of ambiguity, but I'm trying to build to something here and don't want to throw all of the suspense out the window just to please a handful of impatient junkies.

So I won't be rushing it.

I especially appreciate the speculation on these boards, since most of you actually have brains and use them. Don't know what I'd do if all I had to read in response to my story were kids ranting about how I'm not making Naruto some badass, aloof villain who kills people at the drop of a hat and doesn't have an actual agenda aside from flaunting his prodigious thirteen-year-old skills.

I guess people didn't read the author's note when I said that Naruto would be bad but not evil.

Oh well.

 

From my reading, the enemy, as it were, is not so much a person, or a group, although there are people that need to die, such as Orochimaru.

The true enemy is an idea, the idea that 'might makes right' and fuck everything else. I remember in an earlier Chapter Pain was talking about how the mightiest ninjas dictate policy and how the daiymos are losing power in the face of godlike ninja strength.

This holds true for Hanzou, who made Ame into a ninja village and made it into his ninja village, draining Rain Country dry to make his mark.

Or take the Kazekage for example. His philosophy of might makes right cause Gaara to be born as he was, with Shukaku.

But then again, Pain is doing the extact same thing, but he is trying to become the mightiest, so that the right he and Akatsuki bring to the world is a lasting peace and a change in the system.

Konoha, as it is, is a stepping stone or an obstacle to a greater ideal, the proverbial 'golden age' Pain and Konan are looking to usher in.

Thoughts?

And if you ever want a beta reader or somone to bounce ideas or dialogue off on, be all means, ask. I am an English major and essay writing and composition/grammar/spelling in general is an area I shine in. If I could help get your work out any faster, I'd be interested in helping.

 

That's about right.

Pain's enemy is personified by anyone who attempts to get in the way of him achieving his ideals.

The ninja villages and the ninja therein aren't his opponents until they start to defy him.

While they represent a real threat - which necessitates Pain's secrecy and scheming - they aren't specifically targeted by Pain until they get in his way.

 

Chapter 10 is up.

 

Howdy...

Loved Chapter 10. No real complaints, although Chuunin Exam parts of any fanfic get on my nerves because authors recreate them. But that's not your fault and you did add a few interesting parts. The Sai/Kiba fight was out of left field for me in that I liked it.

Naruto/Lee was interesting in that it felt to me that Lee as a fighter needs the go-ahead from Gai to cut loose which is a vulnerablilty that can be exploited and is just kind of annoying to have to deal with.

The fact that Lee was owned seemed to bring the argument Pain made against weights in Chapter 3 and the downsides back full circle. Lee is powerful, but predictable and can be anticipated and negated, especially in the light that he cannot use ninjutsu.

The aspects around the Celestial Gates was interesting, but it brought up the aspect of things that people have commented on in the last couple chapters, namely Naruto being talky and dropping information, like he did about the Celestial Gates.

It's been said before by you and by me in speculating about what you have in mind that Naruto could be dropping these hints and pieces of information for a greater purpose for Akatsuki, it still bugs me in a general way. This is probably leading up to Naruto's grand unveiling, so hopefully that drops off soon, becausse it just feels strange to me now.

But then again....

Pain does reflect in Chapter 3 that it could be a byproduct of having the Rin'negan that Pain has become knowledgeable in all aspects of the shinobi lifestyle and ninja arts and can analyze practically anything relating to ninja combat. Perhaps this way of thinking has rubbed off on Naruto?

What say you to this?

Moving on, I liked the Naruto/Neji interplay much better. Neji is still an asshole at this point and could use some humble pie. What Naruto said to him and how he bitched him out works. Also, Naruto's little diatribe feels to me kind of how Hanzo would label Neji: a little bitch harping on about fate and his tragic life. I like how Naruto reflected how he was glad he had excised most of his own angst and emo feelings years before.

All this and Naruto's face to the world, what he says, even if I may not like parts of it, all seems like bigger parts of a plan....

What say you, Howdy?

 

Very nice. Most of what I wanted to comment on was said by Dethklok so I won't repeat it. I just want to say great job and that I'm looking forward to the next update.

 

I didn't like the chapter. Too much boasting by Naruto, too much "oh-my-god I'm so much better than everybody else!!!!!"

To me he sounds like a punk who thinks he's the shit when he needs to learn some humility.

I understand that some of his talkiness is due to his mission, such as in regards to the Lee battle. But other parts, like the speech against Neji, are not the behavior of a jounin or an elite ninja. Elite ninja don't need to boast about how good they are, like Naruto always does. They just know they're better. They can control their emotions. No sudden outbursts like Naruto does against Neji.

The one moment when Naruto most behaves like the elite ninja you want him to be is when he's talking with Kakashi.

He's quietly confident there. Talks like an expert does. He's not saying "“Now get off the floor, real ninja have to fight.” He's doing what I didn't see this chapter.

 

This. This exactly. I enjoyed your retelling of the Hyuuga derby. Fanfic authors generally don't realize just how unique Neji's ability with the Byakugan is. And generally, they don't realize that Hinata is actually a talented ninja too - that her ability is buried under layers of soft-heartedness and low self-esteem.

I was a bit disappointed with the Akira-Shikamaru match but as you said at the end the result was expected - so this point is moot, but I'm just saying . On the other hand, I particularly enjoyed Naruto's internal monologue as he analyzed/critiqued the moves of the participants. Also, the fact that he had read Hanzo's scrolls on famous ninja of various countries was used well here.

But I agree with Hadoren, I too found Naruto to be a bit grating this chapter. Is this a part of the plan? We don't know the plot after all so we can't really comment on technical points . (Perhaps you can drop a hint or two...? *settles down to wait for spoilers*)

 

I liked some of this chapter, but I'm in agreement with Hadoren. I'm not sure what your intentions are Howdy, but Naruto's behavior is more in line with some really lame authors. Boasting, touting his strength. Maybe Naruto's acting like this for a reason? But if you're trying to show that he's an elite ninja, you're doing the opposite.

Naruto's still a kid, but this whole time you've been showing how extremely "mature" he is. From the start of the fic, he's been exceptionally insightful and level-headed. Why would he brag or show off? Why would he toy around with Lee? Yes, I can see him deriving enjoyment from playing with some genin, but he would be much more subtle in provoking and drawing out their full power than outright taunting, belitting, or coaxing them.

Maybe Naruto's trying to act like Hanzou? If that's your reasoning, Howdy, then I'll say you thoroughly tricked me, however, I hope you have an appropriate explanation for Naruto's really contradictory actions and speech. I mean, you criticize a lot, but you're perpetrating some of the same things you bemoan.

 

Considering that people of Konoha despised him while he still lived there, it comes as no surprise that he wishes to show off a little. He's demostrating his superiority to his old tormentors. A bit childish, yes, but understandable.

 

Okay.

I'm seeing a lot of issue with Naruto's character here, so I'll address that.

First off, I make no apology for Naruto's outspokenness. I never intended for him to be a stoic "I am ninja, like a whisper in the night." Ninja in the Narutoverse aren't like that.

Not a single one.

Even guys like Sarutobi and Pain throw barbs mid-fight to throw off their opponents. It's a tactic that everyone uses.

So if you expected me to turn Naruto into Sai, then sorry. That ain't happening.

Second, Naruto has always had a rather outspoken character, and I tried to keep that intact for my own version of him. Its just not one of the traits that Pain and Konan felt was necessary to stamp out of him. I don't see a legitimate reason for Naruto to hold back if he sees something he doesn't like, such as Neji's verbal abuse towards Hinata.

I tried to get Naruto to address it in a roundabout way by drawing Neji's ire to himself, mostly because there's not a damn thing that Neji can do to him.

Also, as you're all aware, Naruto is still a child in many ways - ninja prowess not among them. However, I don't think it's entirely out of line to want to act childishly around other kids when he gets the opportunity, and getting under Neji's and Kaoru's skin is just that. Naruto isn't going to be a stick in the mud.

Finally, you all make a great point about Naruto's actions being entirely wrong for a ninja undercover. But that's only if he wants to stay that way.

I had Naruto draw attention to himself for a reason. He wanted Sarutobi to call that little meeting of the rookies.

What do you think they'll tell the old man?

That Naruto was nice? Helpful? A little strange? Nasty? Callous?

What?

I gave a rather obvious hint in the title of the next chapter as to what's going to happen.


The boasting might have been a little overdone at times, but Naruto was angling for a specific reaction each time he did it, with the possible exception of with Neji who he just flat out dislikes. I thought for the most part Naruto downplayed his skills when flaunting them didn't suit his purpose, though he was very eager to offer up information.

That wasn't meant to be an "I'm better than you" move on his part.

Naruto hasn't been acting himself the last few chapters. That's for a reason. The more erratic and confusing he is the more interesting he becomes.

Guess I'll have to be quick with chapter eleven.

I'm glad someone picked up on the fact that Naruto was referring to Hanzou as a vindictive bastard and not Pain.

Yes, that library of information will come in very handy for Naruto down the line.

 

Well I think most of what you said made sense. That's the impression I got about Naruto for most of the chapter. Sure, there were some points where I thought the confidence and boasting got a little overboard, but I really think that's a major part of Naruto's character, so no complaints here.