For those complaining about letting priceless artifacts out of the office: I think that you're missing the point about the time turner. A time turner has the ability to change the past. Now, it does not seem in the HPverse that one can create a paradox with time turners...but that does not suggest that one cannot change time, so long as it would not create a paradox. To me, that would be a far more restricted item than a magical artifact, even a priceless one.

 

Didnt the teachers add protections to the hat before HJ took it home. Disguise and stuff.

Its a good story. There are somethings that seem out of place, but dont really care.

Reason to let Hat go:
-Hat is rude/crude/insulting
-Hj is showing an intrest in school work/Study
-Setup for future good relations with Harry
-Protections (teachers/Figg/Blood wards)
-No one knows were it is going
-It is sentient

Reasons not to let Hat go:
-Its priceless artifact
-One of the last objects create by all of the founders

 

That is an interesting question actually. At what point does the fact that the Hat is essentially alive trump the fact that he is a sorting hat. What if the Hat said to Dumbledore that he was bored and actually wanted to go with Harry. Could Dumbledore have refused?

Also what if after Harry finishes schooling the Hat decides that he wants to go somewhere in his new body and quits the whole sorting business. Would Dumbledore refuse and essentially force the Hat into imprisonment/slavery or would he allow the Hat just walk out despite the fact that it would totally screw up the current sorting system.

For that matter, given that the Hat is pretty much required for the whole house system to work, why has the Hat not demanded a salary for his services? I mean it has been acknowledged that he is considered a member of the staff. Given all the talk where the Hat is demanding money from HJ it kinda begs the question why he is working for free for Dumbledore. Maybe he should go on a strike.

 

Actually, I think your arguments about Dumbledore not allowing HJ to borrow the Hat to be problematic. At the end of the 3rd year there were:

1) No organized Death Eater activity outside of Pettigrew.
2) No direct threats to Harry.
3) Harry recovered a rare magical artifact (Godric's Sword)
4) Harry has proven himself in front of the Mirror of Erised.
5) Harry immediately questioned about the fate of the sorceror's stone at the end of book 1.
6) Harry has demonstrated that he can care for his father's cloak.
7) He wants to encourage Harry. (Dumbledore is well aware of the prophecy and obviously will need to groom Harry in the future.)

Most importantly Dumbledore is a sucker for second chances and clemency. It's not only Harry asking to borrow the Hat, but the Hat asking for a second chance. I can see Dumbledore hoping that if the Hat does respect Harry that the Harry might have a beneficial effect on the Hat.

Considering how he gives Snape multiple chances to atone for his transgressions, I don't see him refusing the Hat's request and the argument that the Hat may be out of touch with Muggle children that it may not be properly sorting them.

 

EDIT: Just saw Sree's post my bad :{

 

This.

While I expect Fleur's character will probably change over time, I really wouldn't mind seeing Harry ending up with Aimee.

Jbern won't let this happen though.

 

I have a question. This story says that it's going to be a Harry/Fleur pairing. There is no doubt about that. But honestly at this point, it looks like it's not going to happen, ever. What do you plan on doing to make the a fore-mentioned pairing from occurring?

 

I totally disagree. The build-up of the relationship is slow, but it's still there. Don't forget that HJ just saved her best friend's life too. It will increase her liking of him, even if she doesn't show it.

 

I think you mean a crock-pot, Bio.

Hmm, roast beef...or beef stew...where its all tender and falls apart to make the stew thick. Yum.

 

Except that, none of the first six make any difference what-so-all. What does Harry asking about the Stone have to do with the hat? He thought Snape was trying to take it, and then was nearly killed trying to stop Professor stutters and his Magic Face-In-The-Back-of-His-Head from stealing it.

Yeah, I'd fucking ask too.

Point number-one is proven false by the exact nature of your basis. Book Two. Remember that white-haired wizard with the pimp-cane? Had an elf by the name of Dobby? Yeah, he was a Malfoy, you know. Oh, he was also a Death Eater.

I know.. Silly thing, the truth. There was also that tiny bit with the Horcrux and attempting to kill muggleborns before trying for Harry, himself. Yeah... Kinda renders number one and two false.

You severely underestimate the power of logic, fanatics, and, you know, canon? Remember this example, Jimmy; If you kill Bin Laden, there will still be the fanatics that follow him. They don't just vanish because you kill one of them, regardless of who they are. Given the right oppurtunity, they will act. Like Stutters and his Face from book one, Lucy in two, Pettigrew in three (though thats more of a case of GTFO of Dodge kinda thing rather than an attempt to further the goals), and Crouch Jr in four.

Point Number three; What does pulling a sword out of a hat have to do with anything? And were you reading the same book I was? Because when Harry was going "ZOMG! I HAS SWROD!" Dumbledore's reply of "Only a true Gryffy" implies he knew where it was the entire time. Ergo no "recovery."


Four is as pointless as three. "Proven himself with the Mirror." The only thing it proves about Harry is that he isn't the type to sit around and moan about the past. And if that is "proving" some measure of superiour character, you're way off base. Remember, the most talentless kind in Harry's year outside of Neville, Crabbe, and Goyle, Ronald Weasley did the same. Not much of a reason to trust that "mark of character" anymore.


The care of the Invisiblity cloak goes right along with the argument of the Hat, on the inverse side of the argument, on different reasonings. Here is a kid who was told his parents were drunkards and whores, at the very least neglected, and if Vernon's comments in the shack are anything to go on, implied physical abuse as well.

Then all of a sudden he is special, his parents are mother fucking heros, who died to protect him. And whats this?! His father's invisiblity cloak as a christmas gift? Aside from the fact that its already his, you know, and that makes it a pretty shitty gift as it is.

Logic, Jbern, Logic. You haven't considered the issue at all, considering I thought all this up at 6.30 in them morning in a few seconds. Do you honestly believe any kid with the background Harry has had, with or without the implied physical abuse, is going to neglect something like that? If you do, then you truly do lack all understanding of personality and character.

As for encouraging Harry. Once again, were we reading the same books? It wasn't until book five that Dumbledore made any effort to get Harry off his ass, and into gear. And then he tosses him into the hands of a man who is incapable of looking past a childish grudge against a corpse, and doing a proper job.

My GOD, what BRILLIANCE Dumbledore is capable of. Remember the scenes from DH, because despite the fact that the book was the second worst of the series, it does reveal some important stuff.

Nooo, not the Hallows. Too late in the game and too underdeveloped for those to be important. Moreover, I am refering to Dumbledore and Snape. Not only do we see that Dumbledore is more of a dick than he lets on, but that he counted on Snape being able to ignore the fact that Harry is James' son, and try to focus on the fact that he was Lily's as well.

Yes, he may genuinely believe in second chances, or it may be more schtick for his image, but you can only ignore reality for so long before it becomes apparent your hopes are misspent. Thus why Dumbledore stepped in himself.

Regardless of future events at this point, however, nowhere in the first four books has Dumbledore done anything to encourage Harry to do anything more than enjoy his time at Hogwarts. Even after he knew Voldemort had returned, when he could have said something like "Hey you little shit, buckle down and get too it." he was pushing him to enjoy his summer and not worry about anything. Encourage Harry? Dumbledore went so far as to discourage him and actively keep information from him.

Which kind of renders the rest of the post meaningless. And Snape is never a good mark of standard on anything beyond being a petty fool and a childish stalker who lives in the past.

Posted late because of Snow and having work. >_>

 

You know after reading so many fanfics I totally forgot that, I am probably not the only one. I guess we are so used to reading fics where Dumbldore wants to kicks ass that we have totally warped his personality in the fanfic world.

 

The Harry/Fleur dynamic in the story really seems to overestimate Fleur's relative abilities.

True she is a part Veela, hot 17 year old, with lots of talents. She's also petty enough to consider dating others to make Harry jealous, and yet claims she is not interested in him.

But, the tournament has shown that Harry is an extremely talented 14 year old, so talented in fact to be near the lead of a tournament for 17 year old students. He seems to genuinely like her for who she is, and is genuine in his feelings, being immune to her aura.

Then as we progress she seems very intent on dissuading Harry's advances, and while they might have some underlying tension, I don't foresee anything but a bothersome plot device at this point to bring them together. The character progression really doesn't seem to line up to bring them together.

They've shared several near-death experiences including Harry having saved her and the other champions by holding off the dementors.

What plot device precisely could bring them any closer than the three years Fleur claimed Harry need to age to make him an option for her. If I'm HJ, I don't bother with a girl who is so high maintenance, simply because she is hot. I don't see the ultimate redeeming quality beyond her being somewhat unattainable.

Please correct me if I'm wrong, but in this case I think that as the plot continues the law of diminishing returns for the stated pairing is quickly kicking in.

 

Awesome end-scene:

Fleur all lubed up over Harry, finally realizing how uberz he is and "not just a 14 year old." After she says, "Take me now", he drops her on her ass.

HJ: "Took you long enough, bitch. Aimee, you busy?"

 

Vash, I think you're missing the point. It wasn't just Harry asking, but the Hat asking as well. Like I said, Dumbledore's a sucker for second chances and redemption and the books support that with things like allowing Lupin to attend school, hiring Hagrid as groundskeeper and later as instructor, giving Trewlaney a job, and the list goes on.

My examples in the earlier post was that Harry had proven from his previous actions that he could be responsible with a magical artifact.

What is your logic behind Dumbledore declining both Harry and the Hat's request? The blood wards at #4 would preclude any magical danger. At most, the Dursley's could be a problem, but they provided the means to circumvent that. Is it that the Hat is such an extremely valuable artifact? Well, can't it come up with a song at #4 as easily as it could in Dumbledore's office?

 

Yes, Dumbledore can deny Harry's request point-blank. But he's got a weak spot for magic hats that constantly degrade him.

Today's safe word is 'verbal abuse'.

What second chance was this? Did Lupin fuck Dumbledore's mom/gay lover too?

Hagrid was framed, iirc. This wasn't so much of a second chance as an, 'oh, sorry you got your ass booted out of here because you were dumb enough to carry around a big fucking spider. Also, I feel kinda guilty that it was that guy who I think is kind of suss. Here, you can fulfill a duty that couldn't possibly be performed by anybody else, wink wink'.

Her hiring had nothing to do with the fact that she actually demonstrated some talent in her abysmal little life.

Or that it was information that could give him an advantage in a war that she revealed during her little acid trip.

So, anyone who gets a sword and doesn't turn into Star Wars kid is responsible.

¯\(°_o)/¯

I'd try to poke a hole in the whole 'blood wards' bit, but we don't really know - even now - do we.

However, I'm sure that it's the hat's foul temper and cunning linguistic skills that would save it from Uncle Bubba's fireplace.

The Hat is just as valuable as say Abraham Lincoln's hat.

Even more so, because the Sorting Hat is older, and can say 'fuck'.

 

... I'm going to guess you're an only child, from that statement. I, however, have a brother 23 years my junior, and a sister a year my junior. Allow me to pontificate a moment, shall I?

When a pair of children want something, they typically ask the parents, or guardian should parents not be within the equation for any number of reasons. It is typical of said parent and/or guardian to render a verdict upon the desires, whatever they may be, of the children.

When a verdict is rendered, it is rendered. Both children going "YEA, MOMMY! PLEASE!PLEASE!PLEASE!PLEASE!" isn't likely to have much of an effect, you see.

Ergo; You're logic in both asking is irrelevant.

I pose the same questions as Inquisition. What second chances have you mentioned? In Lupin's case, I once more reference my friends the Malfoy family. And Fenrir Greyback. It doesn't seem they are too disapproving of him to call him a "friend of the family."

If you subscribe to my previous implications that his second chances thing is just schtick, it can be further proven that even Lupin is just one further example in a list of manipulations Dumbledore has arranged. It wouldn't seem that way in the beginning, but often times, you don't plan manipulations for immediate profit.

Lupin would be a useful tool further down the line when sympathy and/or elevation of character were needed. As would any friend of Lupins.

Hagrid is utterly redundant. Not only was Hagrid framed, but Dumbledore knew it wasn't physically possible for Hagrid to do it and knew who had done it, since in their first meeting, he had confessed his unique talent.

And any graduate of Hogwarts is likely going to be aware of the properties of a basilisk.

Treelawney, as Inq mentioned, wasn't hired for the position she was given at all. She was hired to be close, and so Dumbledore could keep an eye upon her.

No. They don't actually. In one case, it was an example of justifying a near-death experience, another is an example of a neglected child striving to maintain a connection to a father he has never met, and the last (the sword) is completely and utterly irrelevant.

You never explained what relevance pulling a sword from a hat, which Dumbledore was well aware of, had.

The mirror is also irrelevant in the argument of "acting responsible with magical artifacts." It was in a room. He looked at it. What responsiblity is that? Does going to an art gallery or a museum make me responsible with artifacts from pre-historic time, or with Victorian era paintings?

Not really, because I know I'm surrounded by people who would fuck me up if I tried something with them. Besides, what was Harry supposed to do with the mirror? Stick it in his pocket and smuggle it to Privat drive?

See above Parent/Child argument.

As well as The Dursley's. Vernon and Petunia have been shown to be phobic of anything and everything "unnatural." Aaaannd I think a hat with the failure of a Kinnison personality you have falls into that category.

Vernon is, as has been displayed many times; hot-headed, ill-tempered, and irrationally thoughtless in the presence of Harry exploiting his uniqueness without someone else present. As is his son.

The last line of your argument there is also irrelevant, but I'll answer it anyway. No. It can't. Not after the first time it calls Duddy or Vernon an obese faggot of a gorilla. Knife or fire, take your pick. They are both irrational enough to act and then think.

But thats just me and my silly idea of ..you know.. keeping with character. But its not a story unless you can change one name and keep the same story. Personalities are for talentless writers and logic is for scientists and we dun liek deir typz rond dese parts.

 

Nice try you two, but there's no real indication up until book 5 that Dumbledore is aware of Harry's home life. How would he know about the Dursleys other than McGonagall's pronouncement that they are Muggles of the worst sort? You can certainly think that the twins would have told Molly about the bars on Harry's window and she, in turn would tell Dumbledore, but there is no indication that conversation ever happened.

Your Parent/Child argument is only partially true. The Hat is an ancient artifact and not a child. Intially, he is skeptical of the plan and resists, but allows himself to be convinced. I put the "out of touch with Muggleborn" part in there as the part that would really appeal to Dumbledore raising the specter that without the Hat being able to see what the Muggle world was like that it may be misplacing children because it doesn't know the context of the images it sees in their 11 yr old minds.

Nice try at psychoanalysis there science officer Vash, but I'm a second child and not an only child - don't quit the day job. Technically, I also have a step sister (my age) and a half-brother (13 years my junior). As the parent of a 6 yr old (and a 4 month old - though she can't really ask for anything yet) I'm well aware of how children go about their business.

Dumbledore first allowed Lupin to attend school with his "condition," even going so far as to set up the whole Weeping Willow to Shrieking Shack thing along with the facade behind it.

Despite no proof that exonerates Hagrid (otherwise why would the Minister have him arrested in Book 2), Dumbledore hires him to be the groundskeeper.

He basically allows himself to be killed in Book 6 to save Draco Malfoy. In book 5, he offers himself up as a scapegoat to protect the students of the DA.

Add in the knowledge that Sirius has to stay on the run in book 3 despite both Harry and Dumbledore knowing that Black is innocent, Lupin was just railroaded out of a job, and that Pettigrew is off to try and help the Dark Lord.

After all this, you can't conceed that Dumbledore could allow Harry to borrow the Hat if he and the Hat asked? That Dumbledore's penchant for allowing people second chances would extend to the Sorting Hat for a punishment placed on it 200 years ago?

Well, then I guess you two are beyond convincing, but we already knew that didn't we. You're just recycling the same arguments you tried back when this story was first posted and we were supposedly in a competition. Back when you and your circle were coming in the thread and rating it with a 1 or a 2 so it wouldn't even make it into the library. Now look at it - almost a 4.5 rating and 138 votes, closing in on 1800 replies and over 180 thousand views.

Despite your best efforts, almost two years later, you're back here trying the same old schtick you were at the beginning of the thread. I don't plan on going back and changing the beginning of the story to accomodate you, (though I still need to go back and fix those Mooneys at the beginning) the arguments you and inquisition put forward have failed to get anyone to suddenly "hate" the story, so the point is pretty much moot.

Do enjoy your time in this thread. It's a happening place to be - or try to write something better, which is why most people start in fanfiction in the first place.

 

... sounds like the Vashmafia has tried to strike again, but the fortress of all that is good and jbern stands strong against the tide.

Seriously, I respect you quite a lot as a writer and read your stories with gay abandon, but stop whining please.

As for the hat issue: I do not think it is very unrealistic that he would give the hat to Harry. Indeed, I think it is a rather Dumbledore thing to do.

Regarding the whole story, I have enjoyed it so far. Some have argued that the Harry is James plot device is overused, but I think by portraying it as a merge and struggling to make out which personality trait dominated in which decision you have given it a good twist.
You have mentioned here that Harry reaching for the unattainable (Fleur) is part of James's personality, but not in the story.

 

I'd tend to agree here in regards to the 'Vashmafia'.

If you don't have anything constructive to say, don't say anything at all. It doesn't make you cool, or hardcore, or on the edge to belabor an inconsequential plot device. It just makes you irritating and annoying to read.