1. I see Ruby as a follower of the yellow eyes. The YED had his own agenda from Lilith and it had to do with Sam. I see Ruby as his follower.

2. Sam's story will go either two ways. 1. It's resolved this season with him being the big bad of the season and leaving Lucifer to be the big bad of the final season (the next season). or 2. Lucifer gets released and he becomes the big bad of the season with Sam's story being left until next season with a culmination of him turning evil in the series finale.

The guy that plays Castiel was liked so much by fans that he's cast as a regular next season so I think the Lucifer story line might go on a bit longer.

 

Ill agree with you on the Castiel thing, if you go to any board even remotely related to Kripke and or Supernatural its fucking eerie how many drooling little fangirls there are soaking themselves over Castiel.

Im not sure on Sam, its almost starting to look inevitable hes gonna go darkside but Im holding out for Kripke's continual staying in the grey area instead of just plain black and white. My biggest hope right now is this idea that has shown up tonight about Angelic orders getting altered and then combine that with the fact that Anna said only four angels ever have even seen God it provides me with a sliver of hope for good guy Sam.

 

I don't see a good guy Sam. The writers seem to be playing with a Christ/ Antichrist theme with the brothers. Sam being the antichrist and Dean being Christlike (went to hell, came back, etc). Writers love to play on that who duality shit, so while I think there is redemption for Sam, it won't happen until the final episode of a season, or until after he does something really bad.

 

Sigh I know your probably right but I'm a big fan of Sam and Ruby so I have to hold out a little hope.

 

First, holy shit on the episode, epic indeed.

Considering this was episode 16, I don't think we're going to see Sam turn evil (if he turns at all) this season. While there certainly have been some personality changes with Sam, I have my doubts on him turning evil/demon. It still may happen, but I see him being in the grey area as much more likely. After all, demons killed his mother, girlfriend, father, and brother (for a while anyway). Also, did anyone notice that Sam's demon-whacking abilities seem to depend on him continuing to ingest Ruby's blood? From a few of the earlier episodes, it seems like those abilities get weaker the longer Sam is without that blood; this might be some kind of addiction or dependence.

The angel stuff was awesome, just awesome. I agree with Anlun in that the evil!angels are few in number, most of them still serve God. The theory that God limits the powers of angels on the mortal realm might be true, but another possibility is that much of the angel's power during combat is focused on limiting/healing the damage done to their host bodies. We've seen that both angels and demons essentially possess human bodies on earth. We also know that demons don't really give a shit about the condition of their hosts, remember Meg and how her injuries killed her the moment the demon left? Angels on the other hand, are angels, it's probably part of their duty to care for the bodies; no matter how beat up Castiel gets, he's squeaky clean in the next scene.

 

Ill give you keeping the host physically intact but given everything we've seen about what an Angel's presence does to a person Ill bet money the Holy Tax Accountant suit Cas is wearing is wiped blank, nothing nada. If Cas we're to leave that host two seconds after he walked in I bet money he'd still be a vegetable just from the presence of him.

 

You may be right, but then again......

The first episode where we saw Castiel, the "I'm an angel of the Lord" episode. Castiel specifically stated that the person he was possessing was a devout man, that "he actually prayed for this." It seems to suggest that the person was at least conscious right before he was possessed. Then again, it could have been a prayer done by someone who was about to go into a coma or something so......but I'm leaning towards the former. Also, none of the episodes so far suggest that exposure to an angel will vegetate you. The only danger we have seen and been warned about is to avoid looking at an angel's true form. Dean and Sam came out of the whole Anna thing perfectly okay, despite being at ground zero for what was essentially the rebirth of an angel. The only warning they got was to "shut your eyes."

Yet still, that's kind of different from actually containing an angel in your body. Although I'm inclined to believe that angels would not possess a healthy human if there was a chance that the person would be permanently injured in some way.

 

Just a little side note: I know it's been a long time since the episode with the Trickster (and I might be missing something important since I've missed so many episodes,) but I wonder if Sam is now powerful to take on the god and *hurt* him for his mind games.

If I hated anyone, it would be the one who laughed while he made me relive my brother's death over and over ... a hundred times or more.

 

I don't see Sam as the Anti-Christ type. All throughout the series, his motivations have always been geared more towards reclaiming some kind of normal life. Even when he asked Ruby to teach him about his powers, he said it was because he didn't want to be doing this when he was an old man.

Dean's the one who's always leaned a little closer to the dark side. He's the one who enjoyed the violence more, the one who was always more willing to use deadly force, even when Sam begged him not to, like during the Croataon episode when Dean gunned down someone who'd been infected with the demon virus.

Besides, between the two of them, he's the one who actually did join the demons. Yeah, it was under duress (under torture, really) but it's a hell of a lot more than Sam's ever done.

TL; DR: I'm rooting for Sam.

EDIT: I think that Ruby is playing Sam, but no more than she's already admitted to. She really does believe that he's going to end up as some sort of king and wants to be the person who helped put him there. If you listen to some of the things that she's said in previous episodes, she's as much as admitted it.

Frankly, I'd be disappointed if it turns out that she was working for Azazel the whole time. It just seems a little lazy to go back to the yellow-eyed demon when he's been dead and gone for a while now, and Lucifer is bearing down on you.

 

But that's what it is. There are two factions in demonland. Azazel and his plan to make a demon child army to bring about the apocalypse and rule the world, and Lilith and her plan to bring about Lucifer to lead the demons and bring about the end of the world. Azazel is out of the picture but that doesn't mean there can't be followers of his. Ruby strikes me as one.

 

I confidently expect that there are Many more factions in Hell than we're actually seeing - and that every single demon and damned soul down there has their own agenda.

Random thoughts, not exactly related to Supernatural; just worrying away at the implications.

It's the "Let's bring on the Apocalypse" platform that confuses me about releasing Lucifer. Surely the demons who follow its (his?) faction can't really believe that they'd be ... what? happier? at the end of days.

The Book of Revelation is quite clear that the forces who support the Beast will be destroyed utterly by the Wrath of God. Unless Lucifer is working from his own ...umm... prophecies (this is mind-bending for me,) he doesn't actually believe that he can destroy the Creator, does he? Or maybe Lucifer is in so much pain he's willing to destroy ALL to make it stop hurting?

Alien mindset - yeah I get that. But if the Dawn Star is that unbalanced, how did it manage to disguise this from its Creator? Was God actually taken completely off balance by the revolt? Does anyone else have trouble with all these concepts?

 

Answer? Yes. I'm wondering about Deism concepts by this point. I really should stop that.

But it's so much fun to play around with the ideas. In the meantime, I'll be wondering what the hell they're planning to do for the season finale. My brain, in fact, my already be exploding with possibilities.

P.S. Castiel getting more screen time = win. Always had hope for that guy.

 

Well, it worked as a motivation for Azrael: "I've spent eons privy to the flames, inhaling the decay, hearing the wail of the damned. I know what effect such horrors have on the delicate psyche of an angelic being. I'd rather not exist than go back to that. And if everyone has to go down with me, so be it."

 

S'nice to see someone quoting Dogma.

 

I enjoyed the newest episode most because of Sam and Alastair, Alastair was actually pretty damn creepy in this and for a show like this actually creepiness is amazing to me.

Sam, damn the scene with Ruby and Sam doing their freaky blood drinking foreplay was just awesome. Kripke needs to give the two of them more screen time and he needs more instances of Ruby's magic, that fire map trick was awesome.

 

So far the first couple of mins seem all right

Although Harry Potter ain't got shit on Sam

 

The episode is ok. Love their names though. Funny gun reference.

 

Yeah I thought that was pretty fun too. Smith and Wesson indeed.

 

I have to admit Smith and Wesson didn't click till about halfway through the show. Clever, show. They brought the funny tonight. Dean as a cooperate dbag and Sam still being his research(y) self, no memories or not, was awesome.

Zachariah as Castiel's boss I'll definitely take it. Him telling Dean to quit whining was great. Dean has done way too much crying for me. Of course, Dean threatening to stab him in the face was classic and very much in character. This episode was light, funny, and I think very much needed.