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Best Timeline for HP/SW

Discussion in 'Fanfic Discussion' started by Scrib, Apr 8, 2009.

  1. Scrib

    Scrib The Chosen One

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    Right, I know that my first HP/SW fic sucked, according to the majority of you but I won't just give up that easily.I was wondering if anyone had ideas for which timeline to set the revamped fic in. I personally lean more towards the Darth Bane era and the rebirth of the Sith. Any help would be greatly appreciated. P.S. Apart from Legacy of the Force I have little experience in the Original Trilogy's EU so I'd rather not do a fic there. Helpful suggestions only.
     
  2. Skeletaure

    Skeletaure Magical Core Enthusiast ~ Prestige ~ DLP Supporter

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    Personally I do think the prequel era is best, as it represents the most possibilities in terms of things turning out very different to canon.

    Empire era is a bit set in stone in terms of the kind of fic you can write.

    I think any other eras are troublesome in that lots of people don't know much - or anything - about them. You'd have a lot more explaining to do.

    Your fic didn't suck because of the era you wrote it in. It sucked because it's a HP/SW crossover.

    This is a bit of a self-plug, but check this thread out: http://forums.darklordpotter.net/showthread.php?t=12007
     
  3. Silens Cursor

    Silens Cursor The Silencer DLP Supporter

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    I'm going to agree with Taure right off the bat here and say that HP/SW crossovers are well-nigh impossible to create in any way, shape, or form that is actually GOOD. That being said, there are always exceptions to the rule. So if in some miraculous way you managed to clean up your grammar and dialogue enough to write one of these stories, here are my suggestions:

    1. Research: the Star Wars mythos, especially with the EU thrown in, is fucking huge. Forget the recent stuff like the prequel trilogy and the Legacy of the Force series - before all that, there was an entire bloody galaxy mapped out. I'd advise that you get well-acquainted with the universes you're writing in, and that's a lot of reading and a LOT of work. If you do this research, you'll likely have a better idea of the characterization of your main characters regardless of the era.

    2. Plotting: in my opinion, this was one of the weakest areas in your fic, given the utterly contrived excuse that you used to drag Harry into the Star Wars galaxy. I'd advise that once you have finished your research, go back and revise your plot so that the crossover makes sense from both sides of the cross. If you're conveying Harry into another realm, make sure that the conveyance can be explained in both universes.

    Furthermore, plotting becomes exceptionally important when you're even trying to incorporate the Star Wars universe, particularly in terms of timing. The prequel era, specifically, was set on a clock and plan by Palpatine, and certain events were deliberately planned. And like it or not, Harry Potter does not have the raw power coming out of the Auror Corps to take down Palpatine.

    Now, consider both of these suggestions carefully and ask yourself the question: is it really worth the sheer amount of work it would take to write a good HP/SW crossover? Frankly, unless you have an enormous knowledge of Star Wars and its entire EU, you'll run into hell, and as you've already admitted that you don't, I would avoid this cross entirely.
     
  4. Skeletaure

    Skeletaure Magical Core Enthusiast ~ Prestige ~ DLP Supporter

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    Not so sure about that. Magic can do a lot more than the Force. Any attack Palpatine uses can be easily blocked/countered/avoided with magic, IMO. Apparation/invisibility/transfiguration makes it easy to get to him and away from him. Occlumency makes it possible to hide from him (maybe).

    And then you have the massive multitude of offensive spells that Palpatine has no chance of blocking. Hell, if he wanted to avoid a confrontation he could just burn down the entire Senate building (...and maybe the whole of Coruscant, eventually) with uncontrolled Fiendfyre.
     
  5. Palver

    Palver High Inquisitor

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    The problem with Palpatine will not be fighting him, but finding him and surprising him, seeing how he is a master at foresight...
     
  6. Silens Cursor

    Silens Cursor The Silencer DLP Supporter

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    All potentially true, but Palpatine can just yank Harry's wand out of his hand if he gets the first move (if Vader can do it, Palpatine certainly can), and presuming Harry's not trained in wandless magic, he doesn't have a solid defense against a lightsaber besides running. Even if Harry gets the drop on Palpatine (still unlikely), he'd still have the fight of his life ahead of him.

    This is where one of the biggest problems, I think, comes up with the HP/SW cross - how do you equate magic to the Force? They aren't 'drawn' from the same source, so to speak. Can a Shield Charm block Force Lightning. Can anything block Force Choke? Really, the fight would likely devolve into Harry holding onto his wand long enough to throw as many Killing Curses at Palpatine as he could before he loses it again.

    EDIT: nice ninja, Palver, although I wouldn't rely on Palpatine's 'foresight' all too much. Heightened senses, on the other hand...
     
  7. Skeletaure

    Skeletaure Magical Core Enthusiast ~ Prestige ~ DLP Supporter

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    Sure.

    [​IMG]

    True that it depends entirely on how you cross it. I mean, I would say that Harry would be able to block losing his wand the same way he can block an Expelliarmus, but I guess its down to the author.
     
  8. The HP/SW is hard to do well, but I think the Harry vs. Palpatine stuff is moot until the author of the fic decides if Magic is just another aspect of the force, the force is an aspect of magic, or they are completely unrelasted. I think it would be cool to see a fic where Harry is there, but has no Jedi potnetial. Just because he is a Wizard does not make him have Jedi potential.

    That said, Palpatine did survive that fall in your pic Taure, at least according to the EU lore. (Han, of all people, kills him in the end I think.) I think he had enough foresight to see a lot of possibilities, as Yoda said, “Always in motion the future is.” So he may have seen his demise on the Second Death Star but just assumed that it was too insane to happen, cause Vader would never stand up to him. Being in touch with the future does not mean you have all the answers. Another Yoda quote, “Truth can be murky, and crucial is perspective to any vision. See you do from the right angle at the wrong thing, or from the wrong angle at the right thing? No perspective is fixed. “

    To the original question asked by Black Mage, I have not read your fic, so I can not give you specific recommendations based on that. I think the prequels are way overdone when it comes to crossovers. There are like a million opportunities for an interesting SW crossover, I would personally stay away from an era like 1000 BBY and Darth Bane, because there are only so many resources (two books and a comic, if I recall) about that era. It would be like making a fic with a ton of OCs, and if that’s what you are interested in, go for it. Another interesting timeframe could be “the Golden Age of the Republic.” After Darth Bane but before the movies, that way you have a familiar face in Yoda (and others depending on when you go.) Lots of OCs here again. I am unsure what type of fic you would like to have here but if you are looking for action and massive space battles and good vs. evil then I would suggest the Great Hyperspace War (with Empress Teta and company) or The First Sith War (I’ve always loved Nomi Sunrider. Exar Kun was pretty kick ass as well.) I think the reason the Prequels are so popular is that the characters are well known and easy to write. (Though it’s amazing how much people can still mess them up.)

    I do agree with Silens Cursor ‘s that research is the key to any good SW fic, period. I’ve dabbled in SW and if you look around Wookieepedia enough you can often find an existing idea that does what you want.

    The great thing about Star Wars is that something was always happening in the galaxy somewhere. Usually it seems like the Sith fighting the Republic, but there were other options too.

    Good Luck!
     
  9. Silens Cursor

    Silens Cursor The Silencer DLP Supporter

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    I'll step in here and correct this by saying you're completely wrong. Palpatine did die when he got thrown down the shaft. His spirit, however, made the labourous trek across the galaxy to Byss, possessed one of his own clone bodies and restarted the war about six years after the Battle of Endor... well, it's all in the Dark Empire comics if you want to read about it.

    In any case, OP, you show a fairly good amount of knowledge about the SW universe (btw, Taure and I were just arguing about the Harry vs. Palpatine thing, not considering it a plot device), and you actually seem intelligent unlike the majority of those who post first in these threads or in For Review and NOT in Introduction. So go remedy this and post in the Intro thread.
     
  10. Sophie

    Sophie Denarii Host

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    Personally, I'd have Harry lose his wand as quickly as possible. Maybe have him know how to do some basic wandless magic, so he's not totally lost. Losing his wand (or having it destroyed, whatever) would even out the odds a little.

    Seriously, a story where Harry jumps right into the SW universe and pwns Jedi and Sith alike is nothing worth reading. And certainly not worth writing.
     
  11. kmfrank

    kmfrank Denarii Host DLP Supporter

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    While I agree that Harry pwning Jedi/Sith is not something I want to read, I'm also not certain that having him toss his wand into a Death Star reactor (how's that for a double entendre o_O) is the answer, either.

    Since canonically - at least, in the canon of the later books - wandless magic doesn't exist, so Harry would be SOL unless he developed teh uber Force powerz.

    From what I've seen in the vast majority of fanfiction, wandless magic can very easily suck and be way too powerful. Don't be that author. Harry should not have every ounce of awesome in the galaxy and do it snarkily too (a la Knowledge Is Power).

    Whoa, maybe Harry does have the weakness of having his wand yanked by Palpatine - not in the slash way, hopefully - and maybe that's okay. Maybe he can still contribute somehow to the world, even with a weakness. It's a scary concept, I know, but that's life.

    *whispers* Maybe he won't even wtfpwn every Force user he comes across. Because maybe magic isn't inherently superior to everything else ever! */whisper*

    Anyway, perhaps Taure and others are right that there's only one kind of story to be told in a Rebellion-era crossover with the Harry Potter series.

    But maybe not.

    I always enjoyed the Tapani Sector - a part of the galaxy which most people aren't familiar with. It happens to be in the Colonies sector of the galaxy, iirc, and therefore just a bit outside of direct Imperial interference, without being lawless like the Outer Rim. Take a look at that source material, see if anything strikes your fancy.

    What I would emphatically not do is to give Harry any Jedi powers, unless he loses his magical ones.

    Some other questions to answer:
    *Are there any other wizards/magical creatures around? Some of the Nightsisters of Dathomir have some pretty fucked up "Force powers" that smell strongly of magic. Maybe they are. They also have sentient rancors, but personally I'd drop that like a pregnant girlfriend. As a side note, making this too much a search for other wizards might make this story too similar to nonjon's "Browncoat, Green Eyes". You might want to hash some ideas out to make sure you've some original ones, then read that for inspiration. It's marvelous.

    *If he did lose his wand, could he ever possibly replace it? Kinda ties into that whole 'magic creatures' thing above. Good place to find magical creatures? Myrkyr, if I had to place a bet.

    *What kind of advantage can Legilimancy/Occlumency alone in this new galaxy. If I were him, I'd lay low awhile, maybe build up some contacts with Rebellion-era notables like Booster Terrik and Talon Karrde, if you're going the smuggler route. His empty mind might also make him valuable to a Grand Moff or something, though that'd make a notice by Palpatine somewhat worrisome.

    *In terms of duking it out with Jedi/Sith/Emperor's Hands/Bounty Hunters/Tusken Raiders or whatever else, how does magic fare against a good blaster bolt? Can he raise a shield before the laser hits him at the speed of light? Doubtful. That said, I'm not saying magic can't be powerful - but there are definitely limits. Know them beforehand. Don't make Harry a God. If he's too powerful, its boring; he needs to be challenged.



    I think this idea is do-able. I'm happy to bounce ideas around, so sign into irc and I think others would be too. That said, I have too many irons in the fire (and too many people would kill me if I started another story) to do it myself or beta something.
     
    Last edited: Apr 8, 2009
  12. Scrib

    Scrib The Chosen One

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    The more you read EU the more force powers you discover. Seriously some authors just prefix force in front of everything. That said I don't think Harry should have his wand in a crossover with star wars.

    I have it! My plot! Harry is drawn from the middle of a duel with a fellow Academy student and is thrown in the middle of a Jedi vs Sith battle.Captured by Lord Kopecz and tortured for informaton Harry is then given an offer to train as a Sith or to die. Harry has to survive the endless machinations of the Sith Academy as he tries to find a way home. Which is especially hard when he has to resist the dark side of the Force as well as be careful not to fall behind, since the head of the Order has been 'advised' to kill him at the slightest stumble.
     
    Last edited: Apr 8, 2009
  13. Naga's Shadow

    Naga's Shadow Seventh Year

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    Personally I think you should bring a SW character into the HP universe rather than the other way around. After all what is more believable a lone survivor or a shipwreck on some out of the way planet that hasn't even discovered hypedrive technology. Or Harry having some galactic destiny that draws him out of his home world to save the galaxy he doesn't even know exists yet.

    My favorite idea for this would be Jacen, between the New Jedi Order series and the Legacy of the Force series Jacen is gone for about 3-7 years where he explores the galaxy and learns all sorts of new force powers, like viewing the past or future in real time and memory modification. This would be a great time to temporarily insert a Jedi into the the HP universe without having to completly re-write both of them.
     
  14. Krogan

    Krogan Alien in a Hat ~ Prestige ~ DLP Supporter

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    This might be decent but the only attempt Ive seen at it failed hard so Id really recommend you stay away from an idea like that.

    http://www.fanfiction.net/s/4521407/2/The_Boy_Who_Fell_A_HP_Starwars_Crossover
     
  15. Scrib

    Scrib The Chosen One

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    Excellent idea, but the problem- or problems are simple,
    1-Apart from the first five Legacy books I have very little EU experience inside and after the Original Trilogy.
    2-I'm not that good of a writer to pull off the sort of ripple effect caused by Jacens presence I couldn't do it justice. When it's the other way around it seems strangely easier. But if Jacen arrives post-war there is so much potential and interaction I wouldn't be able to do justice especially with my weakness in dialogue.
     
  16. Red Aviary

    Red Aviary Hogdorinclawpuff ~ Prestige ~ DLP Supporter

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    Easy solution: just don't write a SW/HP crossover. There are some genres that just don't go together, and mixing these two are prime examples, IMO.

    I don't think blaster bolts actually go at the speed of light. Really fucking fast, but not that fast. I'm not a scientist or anything so I could be wrong, but, well, it doesn't fell right when Jedi are supposed to be moving faster than light to intercept blaster bolts with their lightsabers.
     
  17. Scrib

    Scrib The Chosen One

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    Thanks for the suggestion quite helpful. Well if people can lift things with their minds or spew out lightning or create giant force storms that destroy ships or- See my point?
     
  18. Garrus

    Garrus Groundskeeper DLP Supporter

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    I have an extremely limited knowledge of the Star Wars expanded universe so correct me if I'm wrong, but aren't a lot/some of the Sith Powers described as magic and alchemy. For example doesn't a Sith Holocron turn Darth Krayt temporarily into a beast of some kind. Point is I don't think it's inconceivable that Harry's magic couldn't be described as one aspect of the force that is different from the conventional powers. Just a thought.
     
  19. Red Aviary

    Red Aviary Hogdorinclawpuff ~ Prestige ~ DLP Supporter

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    What really bugs me about is the technological transition. In Harry Potter, the most we see of technology is stuff from the 90's - some mentionings of the Dursley's TV and Dudley's game consoles. The rest of the time, it takes place in a medieval castle whose most advanced technological feature is indoor plumbing. But in Star Wars, you've got highly advanced artificial intelligence, Hyperdrive, and laser cannons that can destroy planets. An entire planet is covered in a city that stretches for miles into the sky, there are hundreds of species, trillions of intelligent life forms. The scale of everything is mind-boggling when you think of it, and compare it to the single country with a magical population of a few thousand and a poorly explained system of government in Harry Potter.

    I don't know. Just doesn't sit well with me. Harry would have to spend a lot of time getting used to all the changes from 90's Earth tech to A Galaxy Far, Far Away super-space age tech, and you'd need a lot of skill to balance that and the juicier bits of the story.

    If you really want to go ahead with a HP/SW crossover, I'd say keep that Sith Magic in mind. Though, you have to consider that even the most powerful Dark Lords knew very little about Sith Magic - if Harry Potter is going to be the best practitioner of this unknown branch of the Force in the galaxy, he's got a big advantage over practically everyone. I mean, he'll need that advantage if, say, he pisses off the Emperor and has the Imperial Fleet gunning for him, but he shouldn't be wiping the floor with anyone's ass straight off the bat. Especially big hitters like Anakin/Vader, Luke, Yoda, etc.

    Sorry if it sounds like I'm rambling. In short, most of my problems are with Star Wars tech, not with how HP magic and the Force relate.
     
    Last edited: Apr 9, 2009
  20. Antivash

    Antivash Until we meet again... DLP Supporter Retired Staff

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    Wrong. Check out some of the extended universe shit and not just the lame fucking movies. Its possible for a person to be able to leap, mind and soul, from his body to another persons body and take complete control with the force.

    Not possession. KILL THE TARGET'S SOUL take over.

    Harry Potter is FUCKED if he met a real Sith. There is shit that Revan, a military genius according to canon EU, wont use. BANE, the nigger that ruined Sith as we know it and instituted the lame ass Rule of Two, wont use some of the shit the Sith know because its fuck-all powerful and hellacious destruction.

    Yeah, if Potter worked to get up to above average, he could be a dangerous bitch, but he will never, ever wipe out a planet with a single thought. Bane's main rival did.