I can get pretty wordy to, and I won't be ranting either. I think that you have more than a few valid points on which we both agree. And a few that we don't.

That said I do stand by my review, and my statements that this fanfiction story is actually rather good. It could be better and it could be a miscommunication on what I mean when I give a numerical rating. So just to get it out of the way, I feel the need to explain what I mean with my numerical ratings, and why I gave this one a 3-ish rating.

First whenever I add the suffix "-ish" to a rating it means that it is greater than the standard I use for a number but not quite the next number higher. Some might use the suffix "-ish" to denote a lower than number rating. I do not, I prefer to "round up" as opposed to "round down". I could use 3.5/5, 3.265825/5 like some people do but I find such numbers to be rather arbitrary and meaningless.

Second my scale actually has six points out of 5. Fail, 1, 2, 3, 4, 5.

Fail should be obvious, it means the work is utter trash, and I want however much time I spent reading that drivel back.

"1" means quite simply that it is a terrible fic.

"2" means quite simply that the fic is mediocre. Some people seem to classify 3 as mediocre, but I don't.

"3" means the story is good. Most stories I review on DLP end up in this category.

"4" means the story is awesome. Almost all stories that have this rating, were brought to my attention by DLP.

"5" means that the story is a rare jewel. It is very rare for any story to get this rating. I can only remember of twice I've given such a rating to any work.

So over all, the story in question is rather good. I think it could be better, and if Darklordmike works to improve it the rating will be revised. He has talent, he just needs practice in my opinion.

Anyway onto the points.

I didn't say that Dumbledore didn't in the canon either. However, he did not share his manipulations, even if we assume that he did manipulate in the canon, with others. As such, that sharing would require in my opinion better justification than "the greater good" which is obviously subjective, or a "the prophesy" which to even use he would have obviously had to tell at least part of it to his co-conspirators (except perhaps Snape who heard half of it himself).

Oh there is no doubt about Voldemort being smart. Absolutely no doubt in my mind at all. He mastered many types of magic, we agree. In his school days he was very intelligent, a model student, and even though he was a bastard child, orphan and mudblood, he managed to con all of the hard-line old-school, pureblood supremacists in Wizarding Britain.

However, I would not say he was one of the only wizards in the world who knew the ins and outs of hocrux construction. That information quite simply isn't avalible to us through the canon. We actually have very little information about the wizarding world outside of Britain except its existence, and certainly no information about the wizarding world outside of Europe, other than there is apparently a "Salem Witch's Institute" presumably in the US. If the only requirement for horcrux construction is a complex, but learn able ritual, and a murder--it isn't unreasonable to think that there might be others with horcruxes around the world. One might be able to simply kill a muggle and be able thereafter to construct a horcrux for all we know about them from canon.

This makes me wonder when the last time you read PS/SS was. We don't know for a fact that it took Voldemort most of the year to get past the obstiacles that three first years surmounted in no time flat. Rather considering that he was possesing Querrel leads me to believe that he was first magically weakened to start with. And second with Snape watching Querrel like a hawk he simply may not have had opportunity for nearly a year.

And getting past fluffy seemed to be the trickeyst trap to solve anyway. The Devil's Snare could be over come by a powerful light spell, which many wizards and witches should be able to cast. The flying key could have been summoned with a simple accio. The chess board should be easy for a stratigic thinker of mediocre skill, or even a couple reducto curses. Snape's riddle would be pretty obvious if you could actually see the bottles lined up. Querrel had a knack for dealing with trolls. The only real problem was the Mirror of Erised.

Of course this assumes that Nagini actually still is a Horcrux, which his behavior does hint at, but assuming that he has 7 soul fragments, and we know that there is obviously one inside his body that means the other six are: in the diary, in the locket, in the ring, in Hufflepuff's cup, in Ravenclaw's diadem, and in Potter himself.

There are some who perport that Nagini was a horcrux and that horcrux was used for his resurrection, as somehow from book 1 to book 4 he got an infant-like body from somewhere.

It could have, I agree. In fact I think the plot in GoF is one of the most convoluted that there was. That being said, without such a convoluted plot, the book would have probably been exceedingly dull and short. But then again the whole necessity of his blood for the resurrection ritual was dubious to begin with--surely he could have gotten blood from any enemy and thereby been resurrected.

Again this would have made OOtP an extremely boring book.

Actually I would disagree with that. First we must keep in mind that the canon is generally written from a limited third person point of view (this excludes the dream sequences, ect), and that that person is generally speaking with Potter most of the time. We do not know precisely what complications, that the Dark Lord encounters. How many of them are caused by his own errors in judgment, personal flaws, the incompetence of his inbred followers, Dumbledore, The Order, or the Ministry itself.

I would instead say that -- "Voldemort is only as stupid as is absolutely necessary for the plot."

According to your 'Fact 1' and 'Fact 2' maybe. But these 'facts' in and of themselves are not actually facts at all but rather different ways of interpreting what the canon says and leaves out.

My 'Fact 1' and 'Fact 2' are not mutually exclusive. Although I do agree that Voldemort's canon behavior does require some explanation. That explanation being that he is some-what unbalanced in his psyche, never really was balanced to start with, and being an incorprial being for some 14 years probably didn't help balance him. What he isn't is batshit crazy.

That is a matter of your opinion. I think that in this story that the Dark Lord's inbalances were however very much over the top. Why torture a wand maker into sucide before you have your wand? We know from the canon that Ollivander was prisoner of the Death Eaters for nearly 2 years. In this story...he lasted what? A couple of months?

What is with the over use of the torture curse on the Death Eaters. Sure in the canon Voldemort does crucio them from time to time, I'll admit. However it is almost always for a serious fuck up. Torturing your followers for shits and giggles is counter productive.

And furthermore this doesn't show the Dark Lord as being "a few Shriner cars short of a parade". It portrays him as being absolutely batshit crazy, and is completely over the top.

Does that make this story a bad story? No. Despite the fact that I generally do not like (and are actually annoyed by to a degree) stories where the Dark Lord's psychological problems are over exaggerated I believe that Darklordmike will be able to pull off a very successful story, maybe even getting the coveted rating of 4 if I see good effort put into it. Yes, Virgina, I do reserve the right to revise my rating at any time.

Well first it wasn't a complaint. It was something that I didn't like, and I'm going to talk about the things I don't like about a story first. That is kinda the point of reviewing. And I'm not the only person who has "complained" about the over the top insanity in the Dark Lord.

Furthermore, as a writer of fanfiction myself, I do expect fanfic to be different from the canon. If it wasn't, it wouldn't be fanfiction...it would be plagerism, and I hear that JKR doesn't take kindly to plagerism although she tolerates fanfiction. I do not, however, expect it to be over the top. BatshitCrazy!Voldemort annoys me just as much SuperFantastic!Harry. Both are over the top. In good fanfic all characters, even if they are OOC (the story I'm working on now both Harry and Draco are OOC in some very particular ways--but outside of those clear departures, they are more or less the same character) have both points in their favor and points in their disfavor and over all they balance out more or less evenly--usually less evenly with Dumbledore, Harry and Voldemort.

That line of reasoning is actually quite plausable except that I don't think Albus shared with her the prophecy, or for that matter much of his plans anyway, as far as the story so far has been written. I could be mistaken on that, it might be revealed that she knows more then we are being told in the first 10 chapters.

Or that he just obscurely said "Well Molly, Potter has to die, you know." Which for any rational person would lead to very hard to answer truthfully questions like. "How do you know?"

Seriously how big is this conspericy? Even if Dumbledore is an utter goofball he should know that the more people in on a conspericy, the less likely it is to succeed.

Secondly, on the matter of Molly. I still don't think that greed could over power her materinal instincts. I do not think that she is a sterotypical Slytherin. If she were the canon would have indicated that, and it doesn't. So as a mother, even if she did know that Harry had to die, because Albus said so, would it not be more reasonable then to tell her daughter to not get too attached to the Boy-Who-Wouldn't-Die-When-He-Was-Supposed-To?

This only explains Ron being a tosser to Harry. Which is sort of expected from the fecking eejit anyway. Furthermore like Molly, I do not think greed could over come his familial obligations. With the exception of Percy, it seems to me that for Weasleys despite their various flaws, family comes before poltical power, or material wealth.

Most of your Dumbledore V Potter points upto the above I pretty much agree with. However the above I do need to make a counter point.

I think it may be a missunderstanding on what I mean by independent. I do not necessarily mean that he has to do all the shit he needs to do on his own, all by himself. If Dumbledore cannot do that, and Voldemort cannot do that, and they are both the two most powerful wizards in Britain how can a mostly untrained 16 year old wizard do all that shit on his own?

What I expect out of an "Independent" Harry is independent thinking for himself. Which is the main difference between a truely independent Harry and a truely dependent Harry. Until chapter 8 Harry was not really thinking independently, he was still opperating within Dumbledore's general program and not on his own program.

As for the various cliches that surround other independent Harrys I would generally not classify them as independent Harry unless Harry is required by situations to think outside of the little box created for him by Fate, Wizarding Society, Dumbledore, or whatever other reason. I would classfiy them as AU, but that is a very very broad category.

As for the points about the Broom, while it is a hinderance, the canon does not go into explicit detail about non-British countries and how one travels to them. My expectaions would be use of brooms, floo, or portkeys to places inside of Europe. Outside of Europe, probably requires an international portkey of some sort only legally obtained from the Ministery, or illegally obtained for an exorbinate fee.

And as to this vast conspericy, I again ask you just how many people does Dumbledore have in his confidence? The more people in on the conspericy, the more likely it is to fail. Most people who are following Dumbledore, do so because they believe him to be leader of the supposedly "Good" side. Nothing more and nothing less.

And I agree. This story isn't the typical "independent" Harry story. That is why it has the potential to be so much better than all the rest. And actually I'm rather glad it doesn't have the whole Creature!Harry cliche in it.

I would have instantly given it a Fail/5 if it did because I do not think that Wizard Biology can be so different from Muggle Biology seeing as Wizards and Muggles can reproduce viable offspring--meaning they are the same species. Magical creatures by and large cannot do this (with the notable exception of Veela, and the there are hundreds of theories as to why--mine is that they are a humanoid species).

 

The first few chapters were a chore to read through. And while I admit it gets better later on in the story, I still don't think that this fic is good enough for the library.

The author needs to improve his writing style. I will rate the story 2/5.

 

You are forgetting the main point in cannon. Prophesies are generally believed to be rubbish. Like Dumbeldore says, they are always too vague and hard to understand correctly, until it has come to pass. Almost no one believes in divination. Most think it is just a waste of time, including the professors. Even Voldemort never believed in this stuff, but just decided not to take a chance. Also, if the ministry believed the prophicy then they cant execute Harry, becuase he can only die by the hand of the other apparently.

Besides Harry has the power the dark lord known not. Dumbeldore would try to train Harry, and try to find out more about this power. I doubt he would let this oppertunity go to waste, if it meant that, the power could be used to destroy Voldemort. I cant remember cannon that well anymore, but I do think that Dumbledore didnt take any actions, just because he had too much faith in the prophicy(other than realising thay Harry being his equal probably meant he was a horcrux). The prophicy doesent even mention about no one being able to kill them. It just says that one of them will end up killing the other. I think what Dumbeldore basically told Harry in cannon was, prophicies are too hard to interpret, just ignore it completely, and he will find it will be fulfilled eventually. So that means no need to change his actions to line up with fate, fate will line up with his actions.

And with Dumbeldore not realising Moody was an imposter. We dont even know how much time they spent together in that year. For all we know they never bothored to have much contact other than normal Professor and Headmaster relationship. It isnt as if the two went on dinner, went bowling and got drunk together. If Crouch was good at what he did, he would be able to avoid detection.

And as for the story, I tried to read the first couple of chapters, but it just didnt interest me. I will try to read again later on and see if it improves.

 

Perhaps English isn't your first language, and I'm normally very tolerant of mistakes in posts, but that shit was difficult to read. Every spelling and grammar error just jumped off the screen at me...

Will edit post after I've read the newest chapter so that the post is at least relevant to the thread.

 

And Albus also said his "power knows not" is supposedly "love", which I find to be disappointing. She could have made it something really cool. Instead, she just made it some lame ass power, which Harry hardly even knows about in the first place.

 

I think Rowling was using the word "know" to mean that Voldemort is loved by no one and loves no one himself; i.e., he knows no love. Harry, on the other hand, is loved by many people, and loves a number of people himself.

 

Indeed, when I read DH I simply assumed that love was meant as a power in the classic sense of the hero has supporters who are there for them no matter what. While the villain has to settle for followers who can only be counted on when he's powerful enough to not need any help.

 

For those who are following the story, Chapter 12 is now up.

 

Latest update is good. This story is definitely improving as it goes. The major downside to it now is that he's really just a passive pawn being passed back and forth between the power players in the story. Realistic perhaps, but not very satisfying. It would require some rather dramatic changes for him to become something more than that, but I hope they are coming.

 

While Harry currently is somewhat of a pawn, he has been catalyst that has set these events in motion. Had he not made the decision to flee Hogwarts, the DMLE would have no knowledge of Voldemort's return. That knowledge will probably shape the outlines of the coming conflict, so while he may not be able to take much of an active role, at the least he's causing things to happen.

 

A nice chapter and the story does continue to improve somewhat.

I still don't understand your urge to include the characters' thoughts though? For example:
(what were the spoiler tags once again?)

You had it all fine until that point where you decide to put the mental process of a supposedly smart person, even cunning man, a manipulator if you prefer, into a single sentence. And not a good one at that.
Why didn't you leave it at the point that Dumbledore assumes that Potter had got in touch with them and now they are here to find out more? Why not simply use Dumbledore's trade mark of fingers tips lightly touching in front of his face while he was contemplating several scenarios all of which depended on his next words. That way you could have add some presence of sophistication to his persona, one which should have it, instead of making arguably the most powerful man in wizarding England sound like a... I actually can't find the proper words here but Dumbledore thinking in lines of "Damn..." simply won't do.

As I said before I like it despite the first chapters and the few irritating choices in the writing style. You are using plot lines that many people, unfortunately, would use to express their daily need to write at least once "that thingy is such a cliche" and yet I'm reading it and it is interesting to follow and see where you'll go from here.

Nice twist on the Horcruxes. I wish now I had published my own story idea already so I won't have to credit you for already putting it in words but still, nice twist. Although if there is nothing left in Harry than what exactly has kept Voldemort alive remains a question pending answer.

edit:

And yet that is the case - he is a pawn being used by the power players, because they are that "The power players" and he is nothing more but a boy thrown in a conflict between those with agenda and power to see their goals completed. Any indi Harry fic out there having the kid throwing temper tantrums while trying to fight against Dumbledore and not being crushed immediately is simply not realistic. Given enough time and some help Harry can become a major player and eventually be able to sit with the adults on the same table but not before he had learn his experience the hard way.

 

I just couldn't get past the first few chapters. 1/5.

 

It has a nice plot thus far, but some things just suck- e.g. the weak Harry- I mean, hey, if you suddenly discover an absence of your power, wouldn't you do absolutely EVERYTHING in your might to solve this problem?

Well, I liked it, and I think it has enough potential to eventually become library worthy- 4/5

 

Am I the only person who feels like Harry has been effectively written out of the story?

It seems to me that two things can happen here. Dumbledore could be wrong about the prophecy's workings in which case Harry will get help from Bones and Croaker in order to defeat Voldemort without dying, or Dumbledore could be right in which case Croaker and Bones will hand him over to Voldemort to die.

Why is Harry even a character anymore? He's got such powerful advocates and such powerful yet seemingly inept adversaries that frankly he has no say in what his future could be. The only outcome I can think of that would interest me is if the old folks decided he needs to die and Harry has to kill everyone.

Bones' and Croaker's bullshit about not being able to go against Dumbledore despite the blatant criminality of his actions is silly to me. Dumbledore isn't some super soldier or secret weapon against Voldemort. Fact is that he can't beat Voldemort and everyone knows it.

If they made Dumbledore sit with the aurors 24/7 so that he could jump into a fight against Voldemort every time he showed his face, I suppose I could understand, but that's just not the case.

"We can't prosecute Dumbledore because he's the only guy who can fight Voldemort evenly, assuming he shows up to the fight to begin with" is just not a sufficient argument.

 

Thanks to those of you who have provided constructive criticism. Here’s my thinking on a few of the recent posts:

The weakness of the opening chapters - I agree. Chapter One begins with Harry brooding in the middle of the summer, like too many other HP stories. There's no original hook, as VotN pointed out to me over a month ago.

<O</O
Chapter Two was handled poorly on my part. While I’m proud of Dumbledore’s motives for controlling Harry—I honestly think they’re more believable than most manipulative Dumbledore stories—I made the mistake of dumping too much information on readers in the form of a clumsy internal monologue. PsiHary’s critique of Chapter 2 is right on the money.

<O</O<O</O
Part of the problem with the first two chapters is that the characters are separated from one another, and so there is little chance to reveal information through dialogue. I will eventually go back and try to improve the first two chapters as much as possible, but I’d rather concentrate on future chapters at the moment.

<O</O<O</O
That said, I don’t think the opening chapters are ‘unreadable,’ ‘terrible,’ an utter ‘chore to wade through,’ or inspire violence against babies. They do contain important information, and grammatically and syntactically there’s not much wrong with them. It’s not as if the first few chapters were written by a chimpanzee and all of a sudden a human took over.

Harry as a helpless pawn - Warlocke's helpful earlier post did a lot to explain my thinking on Harry's character, so I won't rehash it. Harry is being used by powerful adults at the moment, but that strikes me as realistic for this point in the story. Soon his magic will be 'fixed' and he'll have to grow up in a hurry; he'll be taking a very active role in the coming war and there will be plenty of opportunity for 'win,' as Dirk puts it. If you're frustrated with Harry's lack of power so far, all I can do is shrug and counsel patience. Part of the problem may be the expectations placed on stories in the 'Independent' genre--I've got no problem calling it a 'General' HP story.

Dumbledore's intelligence - I've tried to portray him as a fallible human being here. He's likely the most powerful wizard in the world, and he has all kinds of political influence, but, just as in canon, he prefers to work alone. This arrogance is his fatal flaw--he has no counselors, and thus makes unilateral decisions based (sometimes) on incomplete information.

When he first heard the prophecy, he was in the midst of a costly war that needed to be stopped ASAP. The idea that their savior hadn’t even been born yet was unacceptable to him. So he chose to sacrifice a single child to save the lives of thousands. His understanding of the prophecy may be flawed, but it’s not without justification. The occasional narration of his thoughts, while it may be irritating to some, is an attempt to emphasize that he is not a traditional villain here. He is cold-blooded, certainly, but he truly has no personal vendetta against Harry.

<O</O<O</O
<O@Howdy: I wanted to portray an HP universe in which there were at least some competent and powerful adults. All too often Harry becomes the sole leader in a war against Voldemort, and I always wonder where everyone else is. The story will remain Harry-centric, but he won't be the only one calling the shots. Those stories where someone like Moody walks up to a 15-year-old and asks for orders make me roll my eyes.

</O<O</O<O</O
And we’ll have to agree to disagree on Dumbledore’s importance. If Dumbledore were incarcerated, Voldemort would go on an unchecked rampage. It doesn’t strike me as unreasonable for Bones and Croaker to realize this. They did tell him there would be a reckoning after the war was over.

<O</O<O</O
Anyway, I’ll shut up now. Thanks again everyone for reading and offering feedback. It’s been fun to write so far.<O></O>

 

The idea of a "boy thrown into a conflict" being the only one who can defeat the most powerful wizard in the world is inherently not realistic and yet it is the entire foundation of the series, which nobody seems to have a problem with.

Nobody is reading fanfic to read about no-name characters like Croaker engaging in power plays with Dumbledore. If they are necessary to get the plot to where the author wants it, fine, but it should be kept to the minimum necessary. Realism < entertainment.

 

It has been updated. Not a great deal happened, but a solid update, nonetheless.

 

It introduced an interesting point - the change in Harry's transfiguration abilities/skills. I wonder if it will have any consequence in the story. And the confrontation between Lucius and Dumbledore was good.

 

Yeah, that is pretty major. Open mouth, insert foot.

 

This has been updated a couple times since the last post so I don't feel too bad about necro-ing. Overall I'm quite enjoying the story. I think the author is doing a good job esp. for a first attempt at writing, and the plot concept - that Dumbledore still wants to follow the prophesy but thinks the best solution is to *kill* Harry - seems interesting and isn't something I've seen before.

I think some people may be overestimating Molly and Ron's ability to empathize with Ginny. I agree they wouldn't deliberately set up a family member for heartbreak, but I'm almost certain these characters don't see it this way. They're not thinking "oh, Ginny will be crushed, permanently scarred, but that's alright!" She's a fourteen-year-old girl. How crushed can she possibly be by Harry's death? As many canon discussions have noted, at this point in canon they've had what, half a dozen interactions with one another? Saying she could be "crushed" or "heartbroken" by his death is just buying into the soulmate/meant to be crap. Yes, she would be sad if Harry died, but she would heal, she'd get over it, she'd find someone else to hopelessly sigh over - death is a part of life and we've all lost people and had to move on. And then she'd be *rich.* Just... throwing that out there as an option that doesn't require the other Weasleys to be betraying family as well as Harry.

I agree with others that Hermione's characterization is very interesting, and one of the more original threads in the story. I'd be very interested in seeing more of her, actually. I also thought Ginny's reaction to finding out about the love potions was nicely handled - her characterization is fairly good as well. Actually, thus far compared to both of them Parvati's character is a bit two-dimensional. Her conflict about "oh, why am I helping Harry even though it's dangerous?!?" seems a bit heavy handed in comparison to the subtler dilemnas the other two are going through. Then again, I'm not a huge fan of Parvati, and of Harry/Parvati by extension, so I may be biased. And I'm willing to see if she grows. Actually, if this story is partially about Parvati growing as a person, then the characterization is spot on so far, because she's far more like canon than she would be if she had been given complex and nuanced motivations. Hmm...

Batshit crazy Voldemort - a bit tiresome but again I think darklordmike is going interesting places with it. I'd really like to see Lucius become a bigger part of the story, because his role is fairly interesting. He's high up in an important cause but his boss is useless, and he's trying to keep everything together without making it too obvious that the figurehead leader is only that, and without incurring the boss' ire for managing things competently. I do think Voldemort is fairly OOC (he may have acted crazy or stupid in canon but it was different, and you could go through it point by point for specifics), but I don't mind reading an OOC Voldemort given that it's not leaving the "bad guys" side without any real punch in it.

I am more than ready to see some awesomeness coming from Harry, however. I appreciate the importance of patience but, well, right now it's just a bit waiting for the other shoe to drop. Especially since Voldemort has taken major steps to move the action forward. Fortunately, based on the a/n from the last chapter we may be heading in that direction.

This. Thank you. I get a sort of guilty pleasure out of reading stories where Harry becomes the leader of the wizarding world at 16, but the change is refreshing. Some people I could buy stepping into that role at a young age - Dumbledore obviously springs to mind - but if we're following canon through the first four books Harry just isn't that much of a prodigy. He's smart enough, has power behind his spells, and is being forced to grow up and become canny a lot quicker because of his situation, but he's not a child genius.

One other thing - I feel like the romance end of Harry's relationship with Parvati may be moving a bit fast. They don't have any particular reason to be attracted to one another, beyond a friendship because they can talk openly with one another. It's one thing for Harry to think Parvati's an attractive chick, another entirely for him to think she's *the* attractive chick he wants to date. The whole "she's the only girl around" argument doesn't work because they're not actually together. Harry is in life or death situations and he's talking about them with Parvati - they're not in the trenches together. Hence, this line:

annoyed me. She's not helping him fight the bad guys - she's just talking to him every day. And it's important for Harry to have a friend he can talk to, but honestly she could do that much just as easily from India. She hasn't actually provided any useful information about Hogwarts going-ons, aside from that Neville beat the shit out of Malfoy.

The cliffhanger at the end was predictable but I'm still looking forward to seeing how shit goes down in the next couple chapters.

tl;dr: Nice work so far, some interesting characterizations, a few annoying points, and I'm interested to see where the story goes from here. 4/5, with the potential to go up soon if there's major awesomeness in the next chapters.