The resurrection stone doesn't work like that. People don't come back able to lead an army; they don't belong in the physical world anymore, and so can't really go about it as someone else. That was the whole point of the Hallows tale. It's not true resurrection that it offered.

 

Heh, technically that thought originated with you, so you have to provide the bleach. I was merely imagining the epicness of Harry learning Dumbledore and Grindelwald's magic.

 

ROFL! That is wild! One thing, though: it seems to me that if you've gotten the plot to that level of complexity, you're past the the ideal length of a one-shot. I don't think it should be a full-length novel, but something along the lines of 40k - 60k words, and 4-6 chapters, perhaps?

 

I've always assumed that it didn't work completely because the "Stone" was broken when Dumbledore destroyed the Horcrux it contained.

 

No, it never brought someone back to life. That's covered in the story of the Deathly Hollows. It drove the dude batty that he could only see their spirits.

 

Of course most of what the characters know about the stone comes from something regarded as a children's fairy tale. Nothing is stopping an author from making it so that Beedle got it wrong or didn't have all the info.

As far as we know, NO ONE has ever been the Master of Death. Harry is, likely, the only one to ever hold all Hallows at the same time. Maybe the Stone has more power when you are the MoD, than if you only have the one Hallow.

Granted, you can kill with the wand, and avoid death with the cloak, but the same could be said of any wand and cloak. The Resurrection Stone is the only Hallow that is intrinsically, essentially, inseparably linked to Death.

Why, then, is it only when you hold all three that you are considered the Master of Death (yeah, yeah, the artifacts belonged to Death, whatever). Maybe when you hold all three, each one becomes better. Meaning, the MoD can perform True Resurrections.

And if Dumbledore knew the true measure of its capabilities, that gives a far more compelling reason for him to try putting it on, like a dumbass.

And it's not like he never lied to Harry about something. Knowing that, as the Master of Death, he might be able to resurrect his family, Harry might be more reluctant to trot off to his death.

By first giving Hermione the Beedle book (a book given by Dumbledore to the most book-loving, hidebound, authority-worshipping character in the series), then hiding the thing from Harry until he uttered a suicidal password, Dumbledore handily avoided this.

Not a lot of time to research the true capabilities of the Stone between walking into the woods and facing Voldemort, and Hermione would have sworn up and down that the relics could do no more than Dumbledore's book had indicated.

In the event Harry survives Dumbledore's suicide mission, this also cockblocks Harry from ever trying to look more deeply into the power of the Hallows. Why would a good little robot like Harry, so thoroughly programmed as he is, ever look further than directed by Dumbledore and his best friend?

Thus, Dumbledore ensures, even after his death, that Voldemort gets dealt with, and Harry never tries to become too powerful, Master of Death or not. After all, only Dumbledore is pious, wise, and trustworthy enough to handle so much power.

 

It would even be possible to write being the MoD into Harry's overall destiny. After all, the one thing Voldemort, in the end, could never do, was avoid death, and yet Harry is it's master. He acquired this mastery by not being afraid to sacrifice his life, and when he was brought back, that was what defeated Voldemort. The "power" was Death.

Whether or not the author makes such a connection legitimate, it would be good fuel for Insane!Harry's murderous rampage. He could take advantage of the implied hint in the prophesy, which is that Voldemort was the only person who could kill him. In one way or another, that came true, because who could kill the MoD?

 

Well I've always seen the Hallows as a Potter birthright, you know?

The Cloak is obviously a given, but I always thought that the wand and the stone would acknowledge some kind of link.

We know the second brother never had any children, as the only person he would have had them with died, and then he killed himself shortly after getting the stone. Therefore the stone would have gone to his brother.

Likewise, it could be argued that the first brother lived life in the fast lane with his uber wand, and then died before being able to have any children. He died, his possensions go to his brother, the third, who is an ancestor of the Potters.

You could weave it that way, maybe if you have all 3 Hallows you can be a Master of Death, but if you're a Potter you're THE Master of Death.

 

I suppose I should mention being the "Master of Death" is a very lame position which holds no special powers beyond those of the Hallows that the Master of Death possesses - and more than that, the Master of Death is the kind of person who carelessly chucks the Hallows away because he does not care for power or avoiding death.

But that's kinda lame, so go for it. The whole Master of Death thing makes an easy post-Hogwarts excuse to make Harry anything you want him to be.

 

That would be why this is the Plot Bunny Thread and not the Canon Thread.

Yes, in canon being Master of Death is totally lame and there's really nothing special about it at all.

Pretty much the same way JKR sucked the joy and specialness out of every other potentially cool thing in canon; including but not limited to artifacts, characters, relationships, types of magic, confrontations... Well, let's just say 'everything' for the sake of brevity and completeness.

Being Master of Death in canon... It's like saying you're the Master of Wealth, right before you throw all of your money in the trash. Or claiming you're the Master of Sex, right before you declare yourself celibate for life.

Or marrying Ginny and having kids named after the people you hate the most. Po-Tay-To, Po-Tah-To.

Well, since you've given us the all clear.

 

Just because you can deviate from canon doesn't always mean that you should.

Exhibit A: A Second Chance At Life.

The reason why I made the post was because I'm rather tired of people abusing the "Master of Death" thing to write anything they want without having to write believable characterisation.

"Harry's the Master of Death, let's use this as an excuse to make him really powerful. This is much easier than having to make him get powerful by his own merit!"

It's up there with "Harry woke up and discovered he was the heir of Merlin and had over 9000 magic points".

Or

"Harry's the Master of Death, let's use this to send him insane! This is much easier than having to make him behave like a real person!"

Tl;DR: Sure, there's nothing stopping you from writing whatever you want. But it won't necessarily be good fiction.

 

I lul'd. filler.

 

I'd give more credit to the writers of DLP than that. Not only that, but it wasn't nearly as half-assed as that made it sound lol. If there was a place to find or make a believable Harry working as the MoD, it would be here. Harry would be working as an Auror, and thus magically competent in some sense, and the powers of the hallows are quite considerable, and would be even more so in the hands of someone who had mastered them both magically and philosophically.

 

And an equal number of times, those deviations are what make a great story. You really never know until you have one such story staring you in the face. Sometimes they're horrible from the first sentence, sometimes the opposite. This is typically more a matter of skill and imagination (and sometimes taste), than a matter of which device they choose to implement.

These are just ideas. Someone brought up using the stone for actual resurrection, I provided a feasible way one could do that in a story. Nowhere did I say how it would be implemented.

Obviously you brought some baggage with you when you posted. We've all read some shitty fanfic and been disappointed, or annoyed that our time or a potentially good pairing/idea was wasted.

Anyway, this idea is no different from any other concept in fanfic. They can all be used very well, or horribly, or somewhere in between.

This thread is about the seed of a story, the beginning of an idea. If someone comes in here, sees a post and thinks maybe they'll write a story about "Idea #5", this is your chance to get in on the ground floor, so to speak, and try to make sure that whatever they end up writing doesn't fucking stink.

Instead of coming in and saying, "This sucks, it always sucks, and it's only used as a device by sucky writers." (because that is both untrue and unfair) maybe you could offer ideas on how to make it better.

Fine, mention some of the pitfalls of using that particular device and, oh, I don't know, think up a way they could avoid it (other than "Never do this!").

Maybe there are some ideas that should be smashed without question. Sure, it's a lot faster to simply say, "This idea is full of fail; always has been, always will be." and then move on.

Of course, being constructive has its merits as well, but it tends to take longer and require more effort. Not everyone has that kind of time... A hit and run comment that, "This concept is used to turn HP into DBZ but, hey, if you want to be a lazy, hack writer, I'm not stopping you." is a lot faster and, I'm sure, satisfying to some degree, if you figure you've discouraged at least one person from writing something you don't care for.

Using such an idea does not preclude the writing of good fiction. Not using these ideas, pulling someone out of the blue instead, won't necessarily make good fiction either. As always, it's about the skill of the person doing the writing.

In fanfiction, it is often as much about using what's already there as it is making up something new.

What I'm 'rather tired of' is your unrelenting propensity for being such a constant wet blanket all the time, in nearly every thread you post in. You've scarcely ever met an idea you didn't step on. Seriously. I'm amazed you can post so much while being a constant downer. I'd think you'd keep nodding off while trying to type.

I'm sure most of the members think you're the veritable life of the party, and infallible to boot, and I have little doubt I'll get shit on in one fashion or another for expressing my own little opinion, but whatever. Just puttin' it out there.

TL;DR: Plot devices are generally only as good or bad as the writers that use them.

 

Wow, someone's butthurt that one person didn't like his idea after everyone else expressed undying love for it.

Learn to be less sensitive.

The "anyone can make anything good, so long as they're enough of a skilled writer" thing is another thing that's rather overstated.

There are some ideas that are just bad. No amount of skill as a writer can make them good. An extreme example would be Mpreg.

Now, using the Master of Death plot device isn't as bad as Mpreg, but it's still a shortcut, and beginning to become an overused shortcut.

Sure, a good writer might make it readable (thinking here of Perspicacity's Hallows and Pathos). But said fic by said skilled writer will still be second best - the story would have been better had the same plot been arrived at without implausible shortcuts to set it up.

You might be able to write a good fic with bad ideas, but what sets apart the best stories is that they all take the time to do things properly.

I dislike it for other reasons, but Silens' Renegade Cause is the perfect example here. As he said in another thread, he spent 128,000 words progressing Harry's characterisation to the point where other authors just go "Oh, make him Master of Death, that'll solve it". And that's why Renegade Cause is such a good fic in the area of characterisation (for Harry, at least).

Call me a fanfic snob if you like, but I'm going to keep my praise for the fics/ideas that really deserve it, thank you.

If you want shallow praise for half-baked ideas that satisfy the general masses' "epic quota" then go to somewhere like TFF.

 

Harry/Fleur:


Oneshot:
You could have it during DH when they are all at Stone Cottage - Shell Cottage - Whatever lame ass name F/B lived. They get married and Fleur finds out that Bill was cursed years earlier in Egypt and as a result can't get it up. She sees Harry out there digging Dobby's grave... all hot and sweaty, and has to console him.

She stuns Hermione, Ron and Griphook, swipes the Sword and wacks Bill over the head with it, kidnaps Harry. He's able to deflect the Veela charm just to the point where Harry has wood 24/7. That'll corrupt his ass.



Longshot:
At the cottage, Fleur convinces Harry to take her with him on the 'crux hunt. Bill is again, impotent (past Egyptian curse related. Bill's scars didn't matter but lack of sex is just too much.) Ron turns into a horndog around Fleur and either Harry or Hermione has to smack him around. Ron leaves... (again? I forget the timeline) Hermione gets trapped under the burning, multiplying Galleons in Bella's vault and dies.

Bella escapes the battle of Hogwarts, after killing Ginny Accio Freckles!-- she bleeds to death -- and Molly (sorry, wishful thinking. I mean Molly>Bella??? Whatever.)

Harry Disarms!Voldemort to death and they take off alone to chase after Bella. Romance and Veela sex ensue.

:awesome

 

All right, Taure, Warlocke, as somebody who could reasonably say that I've 'abused' the whole 'Master of Death' thing (used in both Silence Game and Countdown), I'm going to make the comment that having that power leads to a responsibility and a degree of "power" that Harry is radically unused to. Many authors do tend to use it as the instant power-up or the 'shortcut', but I'm of the opinion that it'd do far more harm than good in the long run.

Let me bring up a few examples. In Silence Game, Harry has mastery of the Elder Wand and (presumably) the Hallows. But does that make him a likable, responsible character? On the contrary. It makes him arrogant, overconfident in his own abilities. The Elder Wand gives him an attitude towards women bordering on misogynist as he uses it to enhance his sexual prowess. At the same time, such power has made him a target by the wizarding world, and he has to use both Memory Charms, love potion antidotes, and sterilization potions to protect himself and his power. In the end, he has become a manipulative bastard, looking only for the next big thrill.

And let's take Perspacity's Hallows and Pathos, a fic I really enjoyed. The power of death perverts both Harry and Hermione, and their rapacious desire for such power drives them to unspeakable depths to control it.

Finally, let's bring out the nastiest example of how the Deathly Hallows can be far more harm than good: Countdown. In that fic, Harry is thrown into a future creates by the repurcussions to his own actions, in which he took up the Elder Wand, overthrew the Ministry, violently destabilsed the goblins, set himself up as a would-be deity, and resurrects Tonks only so he can fuck her. But over eighty years in the future, he sees the 'religion in his name' having become a suicide cult that broke the wizarding world apart. Furthermore, he sees Tonks - still alive, and unable to die because of the resurrections and despite all of her efforts. If anything, he's a broken man by the end of the story, because he knows that it was his actions, his deliberate abuses of power, that destroyed their world.

Now, I'm not going to lie when I say I'm more of a dystopian writer. I like to take artifacts like the Deathly Hallows and explore the costs of utilizing such power, rather than their benefits, and here is where I think many of the Hallows stories fail miserably, because they utilize them as tools, rather than artifacts with a very real - and exceptionally dangerous - cost behind them. If anything, canon supports this, as Dumbledore tried very hard to place Harry in the position where he would only use their power for good instead of for his own ends. This, I think, is where many Hallows stories fall apart brutally.

I'm flattered - really, I am. You should get along to reading more and leaving a nice long review.

 

I've been looking for a quote about 'barking up the wrong tree' or even 'turn back now, this doesn't end well for you', but haven't found anything...

*kmfrank goes back to writing more Escape...

 

Hardly. I wasn't under the impression your reply was about my idea specifically, as you didn't quote me.

Likewise, my reply wasn't about my idea specifically, rather it was the cumulative effect of what I perceived to be rampant pedantry in a vast number of threads, and this thread being one of the least appropriate for it to show up in.

Call me a butthurt attention whore if you like, but if I truly wanted attention or mindless praise, I wouldn't be dumb enough seek it out here. DLP is hardly a ripe environment for that for of thing.

I've mentioned on numerous occasions how many hundreds of thousands of words I've written and never posted anywhere. I guess if I were so eager for praise, I'd have posted some of it.

Regardless, you are the last member here whose approval I would seek, and that's just a statement of fact.

However, if I was that stupid, I'd surely post more often I do now. I was always under the impression I maintained a near invisibility here...

I wouldn't say you're a fanfic snob, rather it seems that you think anything that doesn't precisely cater to your tastes or employ your pet theories is junk, and you express that thought at every opportunity.

To everyone else: Sorry for cluttering the plot bunny thread with this tripe. This is my final post wasted on this particular subject.

 

I am currently trying to write this but as I am not the most accomplished writer out there I really don't think it will appear any time soon. So here is the basic idea:

The story would be called "The Fourth Force" and is set exactly ten or so years after book 5. The first difference with canon starts with Sirius surviving and Voldemort doesn't make his grand appearance, books 6 and 7 are kind of ignored as in they didn't happen, but some crucial elements will be there.

Deathly Hollows are there, horcruxes also exist but they haven't found all of them so far, they still miss the cup, the snake and the one in Harry.

Without Voldemort appearing in the department of mystery’s Malfoy and the others were able to talk/buy themselves out of prison, also the ministry still doesn't believe in Voldemorts return. Dumbledore still is Headmaster but has little say in other matters, even more so as he has lost his right arm. The curse of the ring, which Snape had contained into one arm, could be removed with the arm.

The Order and the Death Eaters are fighting a war of secret services as to speak with the death eaters operating secretly and the order trying to expose them while being cautious of the ministry as they see them as a troublemaking vigilante group.

Harry and the others have completed school and are competent enough wizards and witches, each having a branch of magic they excel at. (here I thought giving Harry speed and precision, Ron exceptionally strong shielding charms, Hermione being able to cast complex and difficult spells, Ginny maybe raw magical power and Luna a huge magical potential) Point is, they are close enough in skill without Harry (and sometime with him Hermione) being super and leaving everyone else in the dust. Also I chose the ten year skip because I was sick of reading stories where Harry becomes extremely powerful in a month. Make no mistake even ten years of training his only advantage is his speed (with speed I mean the speed of drawing his wand and casting spells not running speed)

Now with this delicate situation, a fourth side decides to enter, manipulate the three sides and take out the winner in order to "take over Britain". (which I admit is somewhat lame) This side is an organization which has 15-20 witches and wizards who all have mastery over one specific art and/or spell. For example a French witch who is really, really proficient at charms, a Turkish wizard who can apparate so well that he doesn't make a sound and can side along several people for long distances, a Mongolian wizard whose cutting spells are second to none, an Asian witch who can cast an imperius that no one can throw of, etc... .

I liked the idea of capable "foreign" wizards and witches, who in their own specialty surpass Dumbledore and Voldemort but are still weaker than them as they have mastery over nearly all magical fields.

I have written the first chapter so far and outlined the plot a bit and until now I am developing the various characters and giving their specializations.

Also I would like to ignore romance in this one, but if Harry has to pair of with someone, that is should be Luna, who will play a big role either way.

So, my question would be: Would anyone like to read a story like this? How can I improve it?