Problem with that is he knows Voldemort wouldn't allow the kids to live unless Voldemort wanted to let the kids live so giving up his only means of defending the kids seems a bit far fetched.

 

Dumbledore didn't exactly give Voldemort his wand. He was disarmed while distracted by images of his sister asking him not to brutally murder her again.

You are blowing shit way out of proportion, stick to what actually happened please.

Not to mention, Shezza has already said that he will tweak that scene a bit, so I am not sure what else you are trying to prove.

 

Yeah, I'm gonna probably go back and remove a lot of them. My original intention with the Elder Wand was to give it the ability to counter any and every attack from a single opponent with the wielder barely trying- sometimes against his will. This, however, would not be the case for indirect attacks and the like. The Elder Wand was going to be superior against one, single opponent and just like a normal wand against anything else- leaving it up to the caster to defend. So, if Voldemort had pointed the Elder Wand at one of Dumbleore's transfigurations, then the Elder Wand is recognising that as its opponent- leavng spells from Dumbledore himself fair game. I think though, that I might just leave its abilities a little more passive- Voldemort's already uber spells are beefed up a lot, he can counter most spells (although it wasn't like he couldn't already), etc. About Dumbledore being forced to hand the wand over-that's going to stay, although I'll change the interaction and totally remove the 'will you keep your word' thing. Unless somebody can come up with a better alternative that Dumbledore could have done, I see no other way to go about it. It's in his character, especially with his past dredged up and being faced with a similar choice again, to act the way he did- in my opinion. Duty of Care and all that crap.

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Edit: Giant block of text is fucking giant. Having some formatting problems and using 'Edit' freezes the screen. Sorry about that.

 

I do agree that it's in Dumbledore's character to give up the wand to save the kids. You just need to make it more realistic that Dumbledore actually believes that the children will be okay, if he hands over the wand.

I don't really think that showing him images of his past is the way to go, for several reasons. Firstly, Dumbledore's final confrontation with what he (possibly) did to Ariana was when he stepped up to duel Grindelwald.

Secondly, traumatic though it was, merely showing someone images of said event is not enough to send them into a delusional state such that they lose all their mental capacities and ability to reason. Especially when that person is a wizard and thus used to illisions. When Voldemort conjures images of Ariana, Dumbledore should be angry at Voldemort digging up his past, but he would never actually believe that said events were happening again, or let it affect his judgement.

 

In all fairness, Dumbledore is hardly in a reasonable controlled situation to begin with when the illusions occur - his school, and all the students he cares an insane amount for, are now under the threat of a bunch of mass murderers, one teacher is already dead, he feels that he might not be able to do all of this alone, and Harry isn't there.

I accepted everything bar he "Keep your word" bit - that just made Dumbledore look a bit thick, but as Shezza has said (s)he will remove that

Excellent update.

 

Fucking Awesome Chapter.

Your Voldemort's characterization is one of the best one I have ever read.

Can't wait for the next update.

 

This was what I was trying to get at Taure just said it better. During the scene where Voldemort "convinced" Dumbledore to give up his wand their was no point in their where I actually had even a small belief that Voldemort would let the children go. If you could make the scene a bit more persuasive so that a emotional Dumbledore might feel a small bit of hope that Voldemort will let the children go. Voldemort is a evil snake like man whose word has persuaded many to his cause so maybe for just a few seconds his words can persuade a overly emotional Dumbledore that giving up his wand would make it so Voldemort would have no need for the children because they would just get in the way of the duel between Voldemort and Dumbledore therefor either hand over the wand and Voldemort have his DEs get the children out of their or Don't hand over the wand and they duel while the children are HERE. Knowing the devastation that duel would cause Dumbledore might have a small hope that since Voldemort made such a reasonable argument he might actually let them go instead of Voldemort just making a deal based on his "honor".

Also to Ellisande,

I was debating with others who had a different opinion. I don't believe Dumbledore was REALLY distracted. He may have looked it but even emotional this guy has been through wars before so their is little chance such a veteran of war would allow himself to get distracted during battle. I know Shezza said he would change it but that doesn't change the fact that others disagreed with me and I wanted to try to debate the issue to prove I was right. If you don't like me trying to prove my point tough :awesome (the awesome smilie is the be all end all of smilies!)

 

Meh, fair enough. I was perhaps a tad harsh, but it just doesn't really seem pertinent to what happened.

I do agree with you to an extent, but my arguments against you don't really relate to what you are saying, so i'll just stop here.

 

You've won this argument because this statement confused me to the extent that I give up. You agree with me to a extent but your arguments against me don't relate to what I am actually saying. Yep you definitely win because I am so confused my head imploded. :awesome

I am totally going to try that argument next time I am debating someone. I never thought of agreeing with them then telling them I disagree with you but not what you say. I am sure their head will implode from confusion.

 

I was hoping for Harry to use a few death eaters for summoning rituals before the story ends. Peter would be a good candidate to use for a ritual. I have a feeling the wizard dealing with Maeve was Grindelwald and he is working with Voldemort. I found it odd that of all spells that Voldemort could have used he conjured iron to counter Fawkes. Voldemort also seemed to know quite a lot more about Dumbledore's past, things that only Dumbledore and Grindelwald know. Perhaps this is an opportunity for summer and winter to balance? Good Update!

 

Firstly, rofl.

Secondly, all I was meaning to say, is that I agree that what you are saying is completely logical and understandable, but simply not within the context in which it was applied. Due to the difference in context, my arguments do not really have much relevance to the point you are trying to make, as it is hypothetical, as opposed to arguing about the story itself, which is what I am doing.

Did I just confuse you more? I'm pretty sure that my original statement makes a tad more sense than this one. :/ I wish I could claim I was stoned for that paragraph, but i'm not, so yeah.

 

I wanted Harry to use people for rituals too since it would help show how dark he actuall is to use a human life even a evil one. He did it awhile back once I think with a evil guy but it was so long ago it would be nice to see he still has it in him.

....................


~Jigokuno hears crickets chirping~


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Dude what language do you New Zealanders speak that certainly wasn't any type of english I am familiar with.


I am waving the white flag again before my head implodes from confusion.......again.

 

If I remember correctly he used a rapist but the only reason it work was the guy believe in god and always went to church and asked for forgiveness.

That being said I'm pretty sure it wouldn't work with most Death Eaters.

 

He used a sympathizer as sacrifice in the last chapter. I'm not sure that there are any dark rituals in canon (bar the horcrux-resurrection one).

 

It makes fucking sense goddamnit. :/

I'll put it in simple terms. Your arguments are hypothetical, not actually relating to the story.

Mine are.

Therefore, they don't mix, and neither of us can win.

Capice?

 

I was keeping up with this via FF.net but I just managed to find the rest of what's been written. I'm a bit conflicted.

The Dumbledore in this fic is probably the best Dumbledore I've read in fanfiction period but I felt he got cheated somewhat in that last chatper.

Voldemort starts telling the bit of history he's managed to dig up and while I can understand how it startles Dumbledore to hear what's probably his most deeply buried regrets being spoken of so casually I don't agree with how he responded. I can't see Dumbledore becoming so... debilitated, after a few words spoken with very transparent intent.
He should've immediately recognise Voldemort's game for what it wass and simply accepted the fact that Voldemort intended to use his past to taunt him.

While Voldemort would usually get incandescent with rage and would shout about not using that filthy muggle name, Dumbledore has always managed to keep his composure and stay supremely disciplined. He's one of the magical world's greatest minds for a reason and though he's also human and prone to mistakes, he knows exactly what the stakes are on this particular occasion. I think it would take a bit more to make him part with the Eldar wand.
Voldemort's proven time and again that he hasn't got anything resembling morals, trusting him is not something I can see Dumbledore easily doing.

I've read the A/Ns and its established that Voldemort was always going to get the Eldar Wand, fine. The way he got it though... I dunno.
I can, without question, easily see Dumbledore exchanging his life for even a single child's. Hell, I can see Dumbledore exchanging his life for Dobby's but that's not exactly the case in this fic, his life isn't the only thing at stake.

Dumbledore's a guy that, while very compassionate, always looks at the big picture. Voldemort with the Eldar wand can never register as a good idea or even an acceptable inconvenience in his mind (as if Horcruxes weren't bad enough).
The prophecy doesn't say who will win and while he might have the utmost faith in Harry, to tip the balance so heavily in Voldemort's favour by giving up the Eldar wand is just incomprehensible. I thought Voldemort's broad range of knowledge and experience and his talent for obscure and otherwise unknown/forgotten magics was the balance to Harry's possession of the fallen coin but I suppose Voldemort having the Eldar wand makes for more interesting reading.

I can't help but think back though, to how willing and ready Dumbledore was to sacrifice and memory charm some of his Order to save Harry and apply a similar sort of logic to this situation. Harry was instrumental to the war and so it was deemed an acceptable risk/loss. The eldar wand is hardly Harry but still, you know what I mean.

I do understand though that they're children and the Eldar wand, while powerful, has weaknesses, maybe a bit of compromise between the two then; something a bit more solid that makes Dumbledore look a bit less foolhardy. Maybe an unbreakable vow.

Voldemort has to not not only spare the children but leave Hogwarts. I think Voldemort would be more than willing to accept this if it gets him the Wand of Destiny, though he'll soon realise that an unusually lax Dumbledore (understandable given the circumstances) said nothing of his Death Eaters and he could have them go on a rampage while he leaves. A bit simplistic and now that I've wrote it I can see a few problems but I'm sure you'll think of something. Good luck.

Also, in case I was too subtle, this whole time I was also shamelessly begging you not to kill Dumbledore cuz I can see it happening.

Keep up the good work.

 

Shezza has gone through and reedited the chapter, I think a lot of the issues that people have will be alleviated, if not completely solved.

It definitely takes out the more obvious pitfalls, such as "You gave me your word" etc. Not sure when it'll be up on FFN though.

 

Its Elder not Eldar for God sakes. If you are going to critique on how Voldemort gained the wand atleast get the name right.

 

Relax mate, I don't think very many people are going to be losing any sleep over it.

That must have been about 500 words or so yet elder/eldar was the only thing you could find to comment about? That's just ridiculous.... it would be like me pointing out that 'at least' is two words or 'God sakes' is actually supposed to be God's sake , totally unnecessary.

 

That was the whole point. I like being unnecessary :awesome