Huh, well, you aren't being a completely pretentious arse about us being... frankly, pretentious arses about your story. If you want constructive criticism, head to the WBA.

 

Having taken the time to go back and actually read your story, I've decided that my original assessment was correct.

You don't need to sign your posts, your username is right by your avatar.

Unlike your shitty story, the posts on this forum are neither letters nor entries in a journal.

 

Yo. I recommended him. Having followed the story for a while, and having lurked in these forums for about three mouths, reading most of the library and checking out a few other threads, I thought the story would at least get a fairly solid 3/5. It's not the most compelling story, especially at first, but it is a decent read, and it has many of the darker aspects I've rarely seen in HP fanfiction. At first Holly seems mary-sueish, but that clears up a great deal as the story moves forward. The letter style did give me pause, but it fits the story very well. Mystery is a main genre of the story earlier on, and even later on in it.

Personally, I'd give it a 4/5 so far, but I seem to be more generous then you lot.

While I am not above trolling if I'm bored, I wouldn't bother doing so on this forum, nor on fanfiction in general unless, of course, it's reminiscent of My Immortal, in which case it's better suited as a troll all by it's self.

 

I realize that this format doesn't require a signature at the end. I put the four characters that are stressing you out to acknowledge a complete post, as I have on occasion had mouse-interference pre-post messages before they were complete. It's a habit.
Since you brought it up, why do you clutter the page with a giant graphic when your avatar provides enough information? Do you feel it necessary to add 'flash' to your outfit because what you say is lacking in sufficient cool?
Feel free to drag out this nonsense to your own self-satisfaction. I've heard from you already and you couldn't be arsed to do much more than trash-talk with an image of a whiny tantrum. Pardon me for not respecting your intelligent repartee. I'd like to talk to the adults now.

~wh~

---------- Post automerged at 05:29 PM ---------- Previous post was at 05:18 PM ----------

Styx has graciously fallen on his sword and confessed to the idea, so I no longer feel the need to protect my source. I'm confused on one thing- I've heard of this forum in the past through Yahoo groups and the like but you act as if the only way I could post here was if I was invited. I walked in the front door, so to speak.

I very much enjoyed the linked message and I agree that a higher standard is worth striving for, particularly in the situation you referenced where the writer wasn't even willing to honor the language enough to use simple tools to correct spelling and grammar issues. This is a worthy goal. I aim to improve, and I'm well aware of the chasm between. Thank you for the attention.

~wh~

 

I love how wordhammer just used a massive attempt at a NO U argument to defend his signing his name at the end of his post. It doesn't work that way, the name on signatures makes it harder to copy the damn thing and claim it as your own. Signing a post, that is just pretentious.

Also this thread is going to be amazing.

*Edit*
The squick humor quote for chapter 11 that you tried to defend yourself with also wasn't funny.

 

You've been here for 3 mouths? What's that, 3 mouthfuls of food?

Alright, I'm done being dickish. That said, I've tried reading this a few times but the format always turned me off. For that reason I'll abstain from rating this story.

 

No, I actually created an account my first day here, but for some reason it never let me log in after I changed my profile. Six new passwords and three messages to the 'help, somethings wrong with the site or something' guys later, I gave up and made a new account. I didn't bother until now because most of other threads I would have bothered posting in would have been necroing, and I didn't see much point anyway.

EDIT: I meant 'months' you know, like October, September.... For some reason my spelling and grammar are suffering today. The fact that my keyboard ignores it when I hit a key sometimes doesn't really help.

 

Well that makes sense. I'll have to change my habit.
If it wasn't funny to you, okay. No further samples are forthcoming.

 

The letter format was a really bad idea. It worked in Dracula because the narration changed very frequently to other characters, that way we weren't always sure that the main characters wouldnt be safe in their bed at the end. And even then it got pretty dull at points.

I recommend a rewrite.

The only good part about the style that you picked is the personal feelings you get directed towards Harry, so keep that. Ditch the letters and put it in first person, have some italicised thoughts and comments directed towards Harry throughout it(that'll keep it intimate), and make sure Holly has no super powers beyond canon magic .

As it is, to be bluntly honest, the first few chapters at least are unreadable.

 

There are several moments when I'm reading along and, a few paragraphs later, realized in retrospect that you were making an attempt to be funny. The above passage is one such example.

I'm not saying humor is necessary, it's just a feeble presence in this fic.

JoJo23 explains the main flaw. There's no necessity for the letter format. It's uninteresting, there's no scene composition, and most importantly, there's no sense that someone else is reading it. The fact that each journal entry is addressed to Harry is not reflected in the narrative - a term I'm using with uncertainty. Her pen pal might as well be an imaginary friend.

Also, the main attraction that, in your view, the story boasts, is the Harry/fem!Harry incest. But there's no emotional development between them. She only summarizes her day, she's curiously reticent about how she feels about Harry. Whether she anticipates seeing him, misses him, thinks he would like a certain student, etc.

Wtf! She goes from not very thankfully thanking Harry for giving her money she needs to moving on to something else in five words. Ungrateful bitch.

You could take some dramatic direction, with the two illicit lovers hiding their relationship from society, yearning for the day they can be united. Two siblings who are deeply wounded by their separation, or two siblings conniving to get Harry out of his situation. Something, anything, other than recounting what happens day-to-day in the story in the blandest, plainest way possible.

All the entries are similar in that the journal idea is used to circumvent showing over than telling, with some strange substitute for humor thrown in the mix. It's all written passively, and it strikes me as incredibly lazy. Even Master Slytherin, a writer a lot better than anyone who's posted in this thread, uses a few journal as a crutch in this work: http://www.fanfiction.net/s/3688693/1/What_Lies_Beneath to sidestep writing some difficult scenes.

The chapters are readable, which is the reason I gave it a 2/5 rather than a 1/5, there's just no incentive to read them. I hope this is a fair and useful critique to you.

 

Earlier on in the thread, it was mentioned that Harry and Holly are the same person. It's not incest. Furthermore, so far most people that have commented on the journal aspect arn't reading far enough to understand whats really going on. Most of the points I've noticed being made about it are explained later on in the story. I'm not saying you have to read it, that would be stupid. But don't just assume that theirs no reason for something. Pretty much everything has a purpose. Like the complaints about furry/beastiality sex was to much for someone. Really? It's this story's redoing of one scene in the second book, that's not only not explicit, but also causes a lot of drama later on. Yeah, Hermione was temporarily turned into a cat-thing. but that was the plot device. The point wasn't so the main character could have sex with a furry, it was because that was a fitting place to start all kinds of other problems.

The journal is important because half of the story deals with abuse of memory charms and similar spells.

Just thought I'd say my piece.

Spoiler: (because I can't remember how to do an actual spoiler tag right now)
Later on in the story, it's revealed that the reason Holly was so forthcoming was that their was a compulsion on the journal to write in it, and to tell the full truth. Mcgonagall (I know I spelt that wrong, but I don't care right now) is the one who is actually reading it.

 

Honestly, I tried to read this fic, several times actualy. But I failed to endure it. The already comented narrative using letters, entire chapters made of undescriptive dialogue that apparently was all transcribed into said letters (so much that the author had the decency to make an OC to sustain his weak narrative). It is horrible, and not the good type of horrible.

Fortunately, the chapter thirty-four is a recaptulation, so I can judge this story without been completely ignorant. The plot that at the very first is followable, noticiably turns in to a chaotic mess. So much that a chapter thirty-four was necessary. And let's not forget the Deus Sex Machina, that pops every now and then. Whatever good idea that the author seems to ocasionaly have is massively outnumbered by the crappy ones. The characterization and the humor aren't any better.

1/5

 

Eh... Meh. Competent to read, but only because the spelling and grammar mistakes aren't running rampant. The diary/journal/letter format kind of lacks a certain... spark, really. The tangents are random and it reads oddly, and the lack of perspective that takes a moment to describe what's happening kinda puts this fic back a step or two. Doesn't help that the humour isn't that great, and the pretentiousness of your own posts here has kinda put me off (And yes, that is petty, but I doubt that me not knowing your style outside of the story would make it any better).

But I will spare you a number score, just suffice to say that it wasn't all that interesting, but some ideas have their moments. Not a library-worthy fic, and not much for the Recycle Bin either.

 

I tried to read this once. I actually got pretty far (definitely into the double-digits in terms of chapters) but I found myself skimming large portions of text fairly often. Some stories draw you in, and you can get a really vivid image of what's happening. This story is one of the ones that falls flat; it feels like I'm watching a black and white film (not that there aren't excellent b&w films). It's dry and two-dimensional. On top of that, way too much random shit happens.

For what it's worth, at least you've been polite and relatively accepting of criticism. Also, grammar/spelling is decent enough. It's mainly your style that's a turnoff.

Anyways, I think you should either consider a rewrite, or just move on and try to write something new with a less convoluted plot.

2/5

 

Lol, the number of times the "it gets better later on" excuse is used in For Review...

Unfortunately, a story being crap and getting better later (which I really doubt - even if the plot becomes interesting, it's still terrible stylistically) isn't enough for it to be Library worthy.

 

Actually, the cat thing started it, but it was the snake menstruation thing that was just too revolting to go on.

 

Alright, I'll chip in a piece of advice.


If you're about to use the "It gets better" excuse, close your moth and listen.

A story, is typically a living body of work. It is not a history timeline. In the future, readers will not take core samples of fanfiction and go "Well, this must be at least a hundred years old, look at the sophistication of the writing from the recent years, and the mind bogglingly boring cliche-fest of the early chapters."


While it's quite common for someone to improve their writing style as they write more, getting a feel for the characters and the material, such that the later chapters are better... that doesn't magically improve the previous chapters.

If the early chapters are, even by your current standards, 'kind of crappy', then you should probably take some time out of writing your latest god's gift to sophistication in writing chapter, and go back and revise/rewrite those early chapters.

I've seen it done a lot- and even done it myself in my own work. I might be working on a really interesting, fun, well written chapter. And it might be just as cool as advertised. But if the intro still sucks, how can I know that people will make it to my cool awesome chapter?

As has been previously stated- I expect the same quality of work from a fanfic as I do from non-fanfic fiction. So if even you can look at your earlier chapters and think "This sucks" then do something about it.

Because really, right now it sounds as though you're using the lack of quality as a crutch to get people to read more.

A step from poor to mediocre is a good first step, certainly. But shed your illusions that leaving the begining material in the poor category lets you go "SEE? SEE? IT'S BETTER NOW!" with any sort of authority, because at the end of the day it's still mediocre, and the opening chapters are still poorly put together.


The letter format, of course, doesn't help that much. It's alright to use as a preface, or to get around material that's difficult to write, but it shouldn't be the only form of reader interface to the story. At most there should be three or four journal entries, before you start up the story proper, and move to first/third person (very few people can make second person work, and even then it's not the sort of thing to do for an entry level writer such as yourself)


Personally, what I would suggest is that you tone down the squick- it's not appealing, it's not making anyone want to read your fic- and maybe look into doing a serious rewrite.

You have a good concept. But conceptual imagery can only take you so far. This is your work, and yeah, you deserve to have some pride in it. But that requires you to put more effort- give the story a goal. Say to yourself "My goal is for Harry and Holly to resolve their fucked up mental problems and become a balanced personality" or "I think Harry should discover a way to free his mother's soul so it can go on to the afterlife."

Come up with a reason for progressing the story beyond "Take concept, apply to HP plot" because just sticking the concept into the HP plot is rarely enough for the amount of chapters you've made, and it's really easy to lose interest.


Once you have a definite goal, and you have your concept set up, work on making the entire fic as good as your recent chapters- the ones that are 'better then the earlier stuff'. Other then that, there's not really much I can suggest other then to read a lot, maybe get some writing books, and do some research. Experience helps immensely with writing, but you can only get it through time and effort, and having the desire to improve.


One final suggestion I'll offer, if you decide to do a rewrite and incorporate the suggestions made by us pretentious arseholes:

Taking into account that most people read harry potter fanfiction for Harry Potter, and your mention that Holly is actually Harry, but there's shit with memory charms and the like going around, how about this:


Holly's interaction with Harry is purely through the letters. She writes to Harry. Harry gets the letters in his journal. 'Harry' is the POV in the fic that runs like a normal fic- first or third person, and forms the meat of the fic. Him doing things throughout his school years. 'Holly' is shown purely through the letters she sends. You could preface each major scene or chapter with a letter from Holly. The readers would then, not have to read through a shitload of letters, and you'd achieve a duality between your two characters that isn't present in the work you currently have.

Such a format would also make it easier to relate between the two characters, and show Holly's impact on canon by actually showing it, not by telling us about it in letters.

The biggest problem I had with the early chapters is we never got to see the stuff Holly talked about, and the stuff that arose from Holly's advice to Harry. If the fic focused on all that cool stuff, you'd definitely have a candidate for a better rating, while still being able to keep to the way you want to write. The content can still be whatever it is you want, but taking new directions with the structure could really add a spark of life to what is otherwise basically grammatically correct drivel.



In short:

Good: You're trying
Bad: You need a LOT of work, and appear to have assumed that the past (ie: Early chapters) is immutable and cannot be improved.

So go on and get out there and work on improving it. You can do it- it'll just take a fair bit of effort, learning, study, and ultimately criticism to get it done. But those aren't bad things.

 

Thank you

I'd like to thank everyone for their detailed and insightful commentary. I will be rereading a copy of these posts to ground me when I look to redress some of the glaringly ill-chosen aspects of the story.
I'd especially like to thank those of you who took a second (no doubt painful) look at the story and still provided your guidance. That's classy.

So as not to prolong your suffering, I'd be fine if we close this thread in a day or so. I obviously posted in the wrong space for my intentions, so it doesn't feel right to leave the story up for consideration in its current form. I never intended to present myself as a deserving author (I can barely be classified a writer), or suggest that the story was anything close to publishable.

As I'm in the middle of Fourth year antics and want to at least satisfy my own desire to bring things to a decent stopping point, the story will continue in the current format to the end of the graveyard, then I'll sit back and figure out how to redesign the narrative and rework the chapters. Don't take my continuation as ignoring your valuable advice- I'm sure you're familiar with feeding the Muse when she stops by. I'd rather not lose the inspiration for having to do all the rework and its not like I have a deadline. In some ways I had to go through all this just to see where I really wanted to go and what was truly important to the story. For those with car-crash interest; some of the sex and squickiness is actually essential to the story and will not be removed, though I will be considering how best to reword these instances to make for a better, more meaningful flow.

EDIT: Upon further looking around I'd think being moved to the Recycle Bin would be appropriate, possibly even charitable.

 

You know, I just walked out of two days of midterms. Given my unorganised and completely unreasonable self, that means a week of not sleeping, eating distractedly whatever I find, drinking insane amounts of coffee, and ending up as a semi-epileptic wreck staggering around in the middle of a carnage scene I used to call a bedroom.

All this to say I didn't read this thread fully, I am not sure I understood everything I read, and I'm definitely not going to make an effort to get the subtleties. If events follow their natural course, your thread will be deleted. Until then, it's up for review -- you don't have to respond to the reviews, you don't even have to read them. It's just a story getting rated.

Of course, it's also your thread and your story. So if you finally decide you don't want to put it up for review at all, explicitly state it.

I need short, concise, explicit posts right now.