Maybe it's just me, but am I the only one who is getting a serious Denarian vibe of these spoilers? Human sacrifice might just be Red or Black Court, but having Sanya and Murphy involved? Where would Sanya's connection to this mess be if the Denarians weren't involved? I mean, he is a friend of Harry's, but to go straight into enemy territory like this, on effectively a suicide mission? And if there was any one way to get Murphy to finally take up the sword, having Harry take up the coin and go to South America, hellbent on causing enormous pain, would sure as hell be a reason. Remember, the Knights' first goal is not to kill the Denarians, but to redeem them. If Harry gets Lasciel and they find out, they both have plenty of motive for saving him.

I'm sorry, but everything I've seen of this plotline thus far screams Denarian involvement - my suspect is Nicodemus finally figuring out a way for Harry to take up Lasciel's coin for the power he'll need to finally nuke the Red Court into oblivion. And, scarily enough, I can see Thomas at least knowing about that deal - hell, the White Court has a lot to gain if the Red Court gets their balls kicked by Dresden's Hellfire.

What I'm a little scared about is if Harry takes the coin and Molly somehow finds out, shit is going to hit the fan - major, and that's not even considering the White Council. Hell, given what happened to Ivy in Small Favor, Kincaid might even be paid by the White Council to take Harry out.

Shit, that actually sounds really good (I've been looking for a Dresden vs. Kincaid fight since Blood Rites).

 

I dunno if I agree. I could well believe that Sanya will come simply because he is a friend. Heck, in Small Favor, Michael is willing to retire if they were to catch all the Denarians, whereas Sanya is more concerned with all other evil elsewhere. I could fully see Sanya joining Harry in rescuing a little girl, simply because it is the right thing to do. Infact, given the whole Uriel/Soulfire connection, he might also come to safeguard Harry who might be important in the future. I hope Sanya is not going to die.

As for Harry getting a coin, I simply have trouble believing that. Not after what he saw them do to Ivy and after all his experiences with Nicodemus. And how would he get a coin anyway? He gave Lasciels coin up, and presumably he cannot summon it back without Lash, who is gone.

If the coins do play some role, I would say its more likely to be as enemies. I could see Nicodemus avenging what Harry nearly did to him by acquiring a coin and giving it to Harry's daughter to really mess him up for example. We know he tried the same tactic with Michaels youngest child.

But I doubt we will see Harry pick up a coin again. We already had several books with that plotline. If Harry does goes evil, I think it more likely that he would summon Mab and become a winter knight in return for the assistance/power required to save his child.

 

Truth is if Harry is going to break the laws and give up everything he believes in and stands for then we are thinking to small. WAY too small. A few things I can think of.

1. Take up the coin, gain its power.
2. Take up Mab's offer of knight, gain that much more power.
3. Break out the knowledge he gained from Kemmler's diary.
4. Summon the Erlking and let him run all over the red court.
5. Use the Bob the way Dumorne did, learn the dark magic thats not in Kemmler's diary.
6. Do something similar to what the guy does in Storm Front.
7. Summon whatever Demons he can think of.
8. Last but most certainly not least Demonreach leylines. Lots of power. If your gonna do something crazy might as well do it right. The Gatekeeper said he couldnt use it without being changed. If he gets these far it wont matter to much. At this point Im saying none of the Senior council stands a chance in hell of stopping him anyway.

But once again, I dont see Dresden taking up the coin, becoming Winter Knight, using Kemelers knowledge, or using Demonreach. To do so would go against everything he is. It would make him no better than Dumorne, Cowl, Nicodemus, or Mab. If anything I see him breaking the laws of magic and it being justified because its a war and they arent human.

 

Four points.

1) It has been implied that the Red Court are pawns for the Black Council, so any plan that appears to stem from the vampires may in fact come from Cowl and his associates.

2) We know that Outsiders have been used in Red Court attacks - McCoy told us in Proven Guilty that Michael was able to defeat two of them during the attack on the Warden training grounds.

3) This is pure speculation on my part, but I would expect that summoning an Outsider would take a lot of juice to power, and human sacrifice is a pretty effective method of powering rituals (ala Thomas in Blood Rites).

4) This book is the pivotal point of the series, literally. Everything is going to change in this book, and what better way to do that than to have Harry's Outsiderbane abilities uncovered and the introduction of the other Outsiderbanes?

 

I believe Harry's ability to counter Outsiders is due to when he was born, so I don't think the power is genetic. Outsiders were used in Red Court attacks, but only mortals can summon them. Doesn't mean Duchess-face can't have it done , but if this is some personal vengeance, rather that court sanctioned I kind of doubt it.

 

I was referring more to the idea that his Outsiderbane magic is revealed to the White Council and the likes, rather than him getting any Naruto-esque abilities because of it.

 

Presumably the White Council must already know about this?

I mean Harry killed/banished He Who Walks Behind when he was just a teenager. At the time he had no idea that HWWB was an outsider, he thought it wast just a garden variety demon. As such he had no reason to hide what had happened from the White Council, especially since his former teacher summoning a demon to kill him would be proof that he was truly acting in self-defense.

The White Council and Senior members especially must have known the truth about HWWB however, just like Lash did. Given that a normal wizard at Harry's age would have had no chance against HWWB, and that the SC did not execute Harry (suggesting that they believe him), the only conclusion I can see is that they realise that Harry truly did destroy an outsider as a teenager. They have to realise that only an outsiderbane could have done that, and know that Harry is one as a result.

 

More to the point, with the White Council knowing, Jim stated on his forums (i'll look for the specific post later), that White Council Members know most/all of Harry's secrets. As in one member knows x, while another knows y and still another knows z.

 

You're still missing my point. I'm not talking about a select few members knowing that he can destroy Outsiders, I'm talking about a Reveal in which Harry's uniqueness is completely exposed to all the major factions. We know already that most wizards don't have much of a clue about Outsiders, what with them basically being the Boogeymen of the White Council, and I'd expect that people like Dresden are all but unknown to any but the Senior Council, since they're big on hidden aces like that.

 

Hmm, I don't really see it.

First of all, outsiderbanes are not unique. Lash knew about them, and Dresdens mother knew how to create one. Butcher even confirmed that there are more outsiderbanes out there, not that it was really necessary. Basically, while not exactly common knowledge, neither is it somekind of super-secret.

Like I explained earlier, the Senior Council members must know that Dresden is an outsiderbane simply because he could not possibly have won against HWWB otherwise. Infact, I recall that the battle actually left somekind of mark on him so anyone with the wizard sight can actually see it.

Now the thing is, Dresden did not keep it a secret. As far as he knew, he had no reason to, and the mark probably meant that he would not have succeeded anyway. That means that anyone who really tries, will be able to find out about the Dresden/HWWB battle, and therefore discover that Dresden is an outsiderbane.

For example, Lara(White Court) has detailed files on all wardens and even some trainees. And she has worked far more with him than any other White Council member. You can be sure that she has had people looking into Dresdens background with a fine tooth comb. The HWWB/outsider connection must have come up. Might be one of the reasons why Lara is so interested in Dresden.

The denarians probably know. Nicodemus apparently knew something of Dresdens mother and even that he had a brother. He certainly has the resources to research Dresden. It is quite likely that the outsiderbane status is one of the major reasons Nicodemus wants Dresden to take up a coin.

Who else? The church? Dresden apparently has told Michael the truth about what happened since we see Michael mention Elaine in book 3. Likely the knowledge has spread since then and by now everyone in the church aware of Dresden knows the truth about him. Uriel and other archangels certainly do.

Sidhe? There can be no question that Mab knows the truth. Leanansidhe played a role in the events where Harry killed the HWWB, and she has likely informed Mab of everything. No doubt this again is one of the major reasons why Mab wants Harry as her knight.

Red Court likely know it too for the same reasons. Dresden is a major figure in the conflict between them and the White Council. They must have done significant research on him and his past, which inevidably would have led to HWWB's defeat.

The bottom line is that logically, nearly every group powerfull/significant enough should know about the whole HWWB deal, and by extension that Dresden did something impossible, defeated an outsider as a teenager. The fact that the outsiderbane thing is not unique would automatically mean that they would know Dresden is one, or atleast suspect.

The only ones who we could expect to be completely ignorant would be the people whose knowledge/lack of is not really significant. A scene where Dresden blows up an outsider might be a shock to your average warden/wizard, but otherwise unimportant in the long term as far as Dresden is concerned. It would just be one extra rumour for the wardens to gossip about, and not all that big a deal considering he already rode a zombie dinosaur. Whats an outsider compared to that.

 

Fair point, I'll concede the argument. I have one more thing to say though.

Thinking about this from a different direction, it would still be a major revelation. We've already been told that Harry has become de facto leader of the younger generations of White Council Wizards who dislike the heavy handed approach the Senior Council has to things, and is well liked/admired by those who have heard about his exploits (especially Sue - nothing is more epic than Sue). Once they find out that he was capable of destroying an Outsider as a teenager (remember that wizards gain power as they mature, and he was barely trained at the time), his position in White Council politics becomes very powerful.

I mean, just look at the way Outsiders are viewed. There's an entire Law dedicated to preventing even contacting the damn things. They're the boogeymen of the White Council and it took two of the Senior Fucking Council (two of the strongest wizards in the world) to fight one off. The wardens who heard about Michael killing Outsiders were in fucking awe of him, and it's a major part of why Molly is still alive at this point. They're the biggest threat to the mortal world and just knowing that someone out there can defeat them with something that is usually all but useless against them... It's something that cannot be brushed to the side, and it makes Harry almost indispensable as a figurehead for the war.

/monologue

 

FYI, the first chapter will be posted tonight on Jim Butcher's website at the following link:

http://jim-butcher.com/books/dresden/12/

There will be one chapter a week until publication, just like with the last book.

 

Says March 2nd!

 

Yeah at like 1 am on March 2. So tonight.

 

So with one hour and some small change until the posting of Sample Chapter 1 at the link AnvariX posted above, I have to ask... are any of you bastards getting as tense and impatient as I am?

 

Yes, I keep checking for the damn thing and its still not up.

 

Me, too. 16 minutes. Six-teeeeeeen miiiiinutes.

 

Shit just got real.

First chapter is up!

Linky-linky: http://jim-butcher.com/books/dresden/12/

 

Doesnt show much. I like the fact that he copes like a normal human being.

Spoiler

Mac TALKED!!! holy shit