Tom and Albus are shorter than Dumbledore and Voldemort. Shorter, and much less ridiculous-sounding. For a lazy and picky person like myself, that is something to take into consideration.

Right. But we pretty much have to assume a negative in the case of writing. Unless told otherwise, we can't presume that there are other people out there like that, specifically because they were not mentioned anywhere. If they were that powerful, they would be important. And if they were important, we would (or perhaps a better word might be should) have heard of them.

I mean, sure, there might be a guy as good as Dumbledore in America or Canada or Japan or something, but that's far, far away, and I doubt they really give a damn about a Dark Lord rampaging around on an island on the other side of the planet. It is proximity that is the issue here. If there were more people of that caliber in wizarding Britain, we would have seen them in the books doing things.

Presumably because if they were more powerful than Snape, then Dumbledore wouldn't have said "the only other person strong enough," but rather "one of the only other people strong enough."

Again, we seem to be in compete agreement that Snape is powerful, and deserves to be in the top five or so wizards in Britain.

I'm just taking it one step further, and going with the idea that since Dumbledore specifically singled himself, Voldemort, and Snape out as being the only three that could master the wand, that that is Rowling's way of telling us that Snape is the number 3 wizard in terms of power.

Power, of course, being a nebulous concept that is never gone into in-depth anywhere in canon, but is apparently the difference between being a wizard and being a goddamn superhero.

 

Mastering the wand may not necessarily be about magical ability. Harry mastered the wand, and he must be near the bottom of the totem pole. It's entirely possible that Dumbledore considered Snape worthy of mastering the wand because of some facet in his character, which he had not yet witnessed or believed present in anyone else that he knew (which was nowhere near everyone).

EDIT: That may not necessarily be an endorsement of Snape's character either. Dumbledore had felt enough guilt himself to recognize it in Snape. He might have known that Snape's guilt would keep him in check, like his own had done for him. Misguided guilt is still guilt. Snape is still a terrible person, but, like Dumbledore, at least he is able to recognize his own faults, which would be all that is needed.

 

Snape was a great character to hate, yes, but top three in anything other than douchebaggery? No.

Now that I've made my attempt to stay on topic;

Lord Raine; I sincerely hope you are not the same Lord Raine from TFF. The Lord and lack of Penis... THEY BOGGLE MY MIND....

 

Being the wand's rightful owner is not the same as mastering the wand's power. Harry never mastered the wand. He became it's owner, but it is explicitly stated that those are not the same thing. Harry only ever used it once, to repair his own broken wand, and then never used it again.

And why, might I ask, is that?

 

I haven't read DH in a long time so I could be very wrong, but does Dumbledore mention actual magical power in that? Because it seems like it could easily refer to skill or willpower.

EDIT: I knew that fucking name was familiar. That was bugging me. >_>

 

It isn't. This is outlined in The Tales of Beedle the Bard, and clarified by Rowling directly.

What makes the wand different from other normal ones is that all it cares about is strength and magical power. It is the most dispassionate and ruthless of all wands. One would naturally expect a certain degree of loyalty from one's own wand, so even if you were, say, disarmed while carrying it, it is still your wand. It has an affinity with you that it does not give up easily. If, however, a wand is properly won in a true duel, then a wand may switch allegiances.

What makes the wand different from all others is that, again, all it cares about is strength and raw power. Not only does it have zero empathy and affinity for it's wielders, thus meaning that it switches every single time it's owner is beaten, but it also only ever allows the strongest to use it's full power.

So it's actually something of the reverse, really. It's not that the wand can only be mastered by someone who is powerfully magical. It's that the wand will only allow someone powerfully magical to master it.

The wand doesn't care about skill or willpower. It's not that sort of wand. All it cares about is strength. Pure, raw power.

So in that sense, yes. The fact that Dumbledore listed himself, Voldemort, and Snape as being the only ones that could master the wand does clearly point towards the idea that the three of them were the three most powerfully magical wizards around.

Sup.

 

Is this the beginning of another debate about magic in Harry Potter? :awesome

 

Hello, digitalstorm. I didn't know you were here.

 

I thought that you didn't like DLP? So what are you doing here? Going to post your story in the WBA?

 

Point.

You should probably post an intro. It's not in the rules or anything but it's nice to introduce yourself to the community if you plan on sticking around.

 

I thought I would muck things up a bit. And I was bored.

Also, I joined ages ago. A full password and email address ago, actually. There's a dead account here, and I'm responsible for it. Oh woe is me.


Also, probably not. The forum's name is Dark Lord Potter. Something tells me that a story deliberately aimed at flipping wangsting!Harry, evil!Dumbledore, and all associated cliches the finger wouldn't exactly be playing to the audience's tastes. I could very well be wrong, though. Maybe the nice people like to have an occasional happily ever after punctuate Harry transfiguring Ron's tiny tiny bitchcock to his forehead after setting Ginny on fire.

I was under the impression that nobody actually took that seriously, and that it was mainly used to point and laugh at n00bs. If I am mistaken, though, then I'll certainly go whip one up and post it.

 

We just want good stories...

You are mistaken.

 

My kinda place even moreso, then. I don't care a wit about pairings, crossovers, plot devices, or what have you. If it's good, I'll read it.

My mistake, then. gonna go say hi brb

 

Because that guy is a fucking nigger cunt! That's why...

Oh, and because of the assumed penis, as I said...

 

Aww, I hate you too, Vash.


Also, done and done. Holla back, yall.

 

Could you cite the quote for that bit, about Snape being the only other who could "master" the wand? This isn't a rhetorical question - I tried looking at various bits of DH, plus Beedle the Bard and even a PotterCast interview, and couldn't find it. But my canon knowledge has holes, and I could have easily missed it in my skimming.

I did find the following things:

1. In the metaphysical King's Cross scene (DH), Dumbledore confirms to Harry that he "intended" for Snape to have the wand. From what I can gather, this choice was not based on Snape's ability to wield the wand, but rather that Snape was the only favorable choice available to him.

Snape was by far Dumbledore's most favorable choice for "attacking" Dumbledore - because of the Unbreakable Vow, he was compelled to do it anyway. Snape was supposed to euthanize Dumbledore, meanwhile ensuring that Dumbledore wasn't actually "defeated" by a Death Eater, to avoid the fate of the Elder Wand choosing a Death Eater master.

My personal opinion (until proven wrong by the cite) is that Bellatrix would have been just as good at wielding the Elder Wand's power as Snape, but of course that wouldn't have been very favorable to Dumbledore's cause. The wand has an affinity for "dangerous" offensive magic (as per Beedle), and Bellatrix is talented with an affinity for dangerous offensive magic. Another match made in heaven, IMO.

2. During the final showdown with Voldemort, Harry says something different: "Dumbledore intended to die undefeated, the wand's last true master ... if all had gone as planned, the wand's power would have died with him, because it had never been won from him!"

Had Draco not disarmed Dumbledore first, I suspect this is what would have happened, but Harry seems to be purposefully lying to Voldemort about that being Dumbledore's intention. Either that or he (read: Rowling) forgot, but I like the former option, because it would be unusually tactical rhetoric from Harry.

Agreed that Snape would be trying not to hurt his fellow teachers, but from what I read, there was no schooling. Snape and McGonagall stalemated each other, and I agree that Snape would probably beat her in an all out fight. But when Flitwick and Sprout arrived, Snape merely Banished the suit of armor that Flitwick spelled against him, and then immediately ran for his friggin' life.

IMO it's an open question as to who would win an all out duel between Snape and Flitwick alone, let alone Flitwick plus other talented wizards.

And here I again request a cite, once again prepared to eat all needed crow if/when it's provided.

 

Everyone likes Snape, because everyone likes the anti hero. He walks the middle line like a real person. Everyone else leans over to either good or evil, with Snape he keeps you guessing like a box of chocolates, a surprise toy in a happy meal, or a nestle wonderball.

 

If you're a bot I applaud your skill.

 

Could I get a Citation for this? I don't remember a lot of this.

 

I always thought the semi-sentience of wands was one of the weirdest parts of DH. I mean, what makes ash-and-dragon-spine predisposed to dislike Harry, while holly-and-phoenix-feather quite likes him?

Regarding the Elder Wand, I've never liked the idea of 'magical power' as some kind of quantifiable aspect of a person, akin to height or how far they can get on the beep test. As far as I'm aware (I re-read DH a couple weeks back), the Elder Wand only passes when its possessor is disarmed (or killed, presumably). You lose it when it's taken from you, and that's the only way to win it. If you poison someone's pumpkin juice, I assume that that wouldn't count for the Wand, much as Snape's assisted-suicide killing of Dumbles didn't count. Essentially, Voldemort had the right idea - kill Snape, who was then the rightful owner of the Elder Wand - except that it was Draco who disarmed (defeated) Dumbledore, not Snape.