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muggle tech in magic world

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by Neosin, Jun 2, 2010.

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  1. Scrib

    Scrib The Chosen One

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    If I recall Fred and georges shiled garments were mass produced and given to all ministry officials, it isn't a stretch that they're cheap and could be bought by most household families.

    As for your two points: A few options
    1) Ninja-style clothing, hell if we assume that they can use charms to make the clothes more comfortable and cooler, that eliminates most of the discomfort factor.

    2) Clothes that actually project a... Fuck it, forcefield, instead of just protecting the area they directly lie on.

    3) Tbe target would wear the garb simply because in a time of crisis and fear people wrap themselves up in what little protection they have. The main problem lies with counterfeit products like the ones Arthur Weasley mentioned but if the Ministry stamped their seal on these enhanced shield garments, hell maybe even dug into their own coffers to supply them, the majority of that problem is solved.
     
  2. Rin

    Rin Oberstgruppenführer DLP Supporter

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    I've always gone with Occam's Razor with this one: You can't use electronic devices at Hogwarts because it's a 1000 year old castle that's never been retrofitted with electrical conduits and no one has ever seen any particular need to do so (not to mention that the pure-bloods would probably flip their shit at the mere suggestion). You probably could use a gameboy or a digital watch with no problem whatsoever, save for when the battery goes out on the gameboy, and you're miles and miles away from the nearest place that sells batteries.

    Furthermore, when characters say shit about electricity not working, it's because their talking out their ass, or got told by an unreliable source or simply don't have complete information.

    IIRC, in canon, only Hermione talks about electricity not working. This is the same girl who said there were no voices in second year (there were, she just didn't understand them), that there was nothing pulling the carts (there were, she just couldn't see the thestrals), and that there were no voices coming from the death veil (there were, she just couldn't hear them), and so on.

    For someone who's been as wrong throughout the series as she has about some pretty important "is/cans" and "is not/cannots" in the magical world, I'm amazed at how many people hold up her claims about electricity as anything other than more of the same.

    Anyway, whilst I totally disagree with Sesc's posts in this thread (ME R LEYEK T3H WIZAARRRD SO WZARD > MGGL!@!!!!!!!!!!!12111111), and Xiph0 made a valid point (that the distance, speed, silence, and surprise guns afford you make's an unsuspecting wizard's ability to cast a shield--or do anything else, really--moot), I find myself agreeing with the underlying point Sesc is making: This is a story about magic in a magical world separate from the muggles and their technology. If you want to read a story about guns, why are you reading Harry Potter fanfiction? If you want to read a story about magic in a magical world, then Harry Potter fanfiction is probably going to be right up your alley. Sure, theoretically, you can use guns and electricity in the magical world. So what? Why would you want to read about it?
     
    Last edited: Jun 4, 2010
  3. Sesc

    Sesc Slytherin at Heart Moderator

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    Is everyone quite sure this isn't Muggles vs. Wizards?




    As for the rest: I might possibly kinda have gotten the impression that you had no arguments so all that was left was saying something I didn't understand ... but of course that is the wrong impression :p

    Just one thing:

    ... who knows Hogwarts, A History by heart and is quoting it here, and furthermore, the character that Rowling admittedly uses to convey facts. So yes, as much as we can be certain of anything within the HP world, electrical devices don't work at Hogwarts.


    Edit: Here's the quote

     
    Last edited: Jun 5, 2010
  4. Litany of Hatred

    Litany of Hatred Fourth Year

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    Dragonhide is magically resistant. There's no way to predict its performance against blunt-force trauma and "bulletproof" does not exist (outside of magic).

    Not when you keep dragging it back there, no.
     
  5. Sesc

    Sesc Slytherin at Heart Moderator

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    Are you retarded, LoH? I must assume so, because otherwise I can't make sense of your last statement. If you have read the thread at all, then you will see (assuming you can see) that I am the last person to start up the old debate again. I wrote about why magic and technology shouldn't mix and kept out of the gun vs. shield debate, because we had it all already and I had said what I thought (e.g. my quote).

    Arguing it further is pointless, because no one will change their opinion, even if there are facts, "facts" or facts.

    As for the dragonhide, it is said that it is imbued with "ancient magic", and that nothing but the most powerful spells will penetrate it. I assume this to mean everything including attacks of a physical nature. Or, to look at it from another point, if spells have trouble getting through, then bullets all the more so.
     
    Last edited: Jun 5, 2010
  6. jwlk

    jwlk Seventh Year

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    I always thought that muggle electronics wouldn't work around magic, because of how precise technology is, and how magic is constantly changing things around it. This is probably more fanon thinking than canon thinking though.
     
  7. Litany of Hatred

    Litany of Hatred Fourth Year

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    I still have my doubts, as your conclusion is derived merely from a magical perspective (the only one available). Truth is, there is not enough information contained within the text to make these discussions anything more than speculative.

    I don't read as a form of escapism. When I read I'm always thinking. When characters become retarded as a plot device I generally have to stop. Ignoring the muggle world and the advantages to be had therein in a wartime situation, when you come from that world, just makes no sense to me. I think it adds a new dimension, and doesn't detract from the story at all.
     
  8. Rin

    Rin Oberstgruppenführer DLP Supporter

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    I go by what actually happens (or doesn't happen) in the book, and never by what a character says will happen or won't or what can or can't. What characters say tend to be red herrings, or worse, the author forgetting that he or she just wrote a counter example to that very thing earlier in the book/series.

    As Taure pointed out, Diagon Alley has no effect on the surrounding muggle London. What we also don't see is any first years mentioning anything about their digital watches flipping their shit (and I know digital watches have been around for a long time, so it's not like no one had one.

    The Weasley car might be an example, but I don't think that was an electronics issue but an issue with Arthur loading the thing up with a fuck ton of enchantments. LoH has pointed out similar behavior with the Hogwarts castle - moving staircases, traveling doors, etc . . .

    Unless I've forgotten any such instances, are there any actual examples of electronics going haywire (around magic or at Hogwarts), or is this just Hermione regurgitating a convenient plot device (kind of like Gamp's bullshit law even though Mrs. Weasly is shown to conjure gravy)?

    ---------- Post automerged at 20:57 ---------- Previous post was at 20:52 ----------

    I wasn't talking about escapism, but simply the aesthetic. Some people like reading stories featuring guns and technology, others about magic, others about other things. I'm not saying you can't think about these things - hell, I do the same. I love to think about how a particular spell might create its effect.

    HP is mainly about magic in a separate, magical world that purposely avoids the muggle world as much as possible. I think the problem is that too many fics that involve muggle tech just ends up being James Bond + Wands.
     
  9. enembee

    enembee The Nicromancer DLP Supporter

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    By this argument you can resurrect the dead, Sirius Black is Stubby Boardman and Nargles, Crumple Horned Snorkacks and Umgubular Slashkilters exist. Since these things are not inherently refuted by canon.
     
  10. Anarchy

    Anarchy Half-Blood Prince DLP Supporter

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    Muggleborn wizards > all because they have the luxury of both worlds. Wizards have the luxury of using some muggle technology if they wish, but muggles do not have the luxury of using magic if they wish. Wizards can do everything muggles can is what I am saying. Wizards could just as easily become a sniper as a muggle, with enough dedication.

    I fail to see why guns would simple not work in the presence of a wizard, they are not exactly modern technology with gunpowder being invented like 800 years ago, and 99% of guns do not have electricity. That would be like saying wizards have no concept of the wheel, or a hammer, or a door.

    And with electricity, I think it is the act of using magic that interferes with it, rather than just passive magic, if at all. Electricity is a fickle thing at the best of times without magic in the equation. There are no mention of Harry's magic interfering with electricity at the Dursley's house, or of muggleborns interfering at their homes before the families even know about magic. I think that electronics don't work simply because the majority of wizards are retarded with anything they don't understand- meaning that it is operator error and not item error. With something like hogwarts- you could simply equate it to specific charms or wards on the castle rather than comparing it to a compass not working due to erratic magnetic field.
     
  11. Schrodinger

    Schrodinger Muggle ~ Prestige ~

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    ... oh jeez, this is becoming another wizards vs muggles thread, excellent. In any case, I agree with a prior stated point: it has been shown that clothes can be enchanted to make a shield around you that will stop spells. There is nothing to say the same can't be done to block bullets.
     
  12. Xiph0

    Xiph0 Yoda Admin

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    It's a fine line and you guys just can't stay on the proper side.
     
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