Just thought I'd say this about Revan: It was confirmed as him having went to the Dark Side when he was in the Deep Space with the True Sith. And he did intend to destroy the Republic for the Emperor, it wasn't any plan to get the Republic to become a stronger force. Go onto the TOR site and then the forums and it's there in one of the sub forums. Just thought I'd say.

 

I kinda got the idea it was just some kind of very powerful force push, powerful enough to form a concussive blast of some kind.

 

Powerful enoguh to shatter open a mountain? YODA could barely keep a large column from falling on himself. How culd some anonymous jedi have enough strength to do that?

 

Yeah I know there's some suspension of disbelief, but in the KOTOR games there were fore powers that weren't shown in the films either, like the droid ones ect.

 

I just watched the hope trailer, and I thought it was pretty average tbh. :/ Looks like I am the only one, however.

I did love the first trailer however. The second just seemed a tad convoluted.

 

In the new republic era Jedi were known to throw moons at each other.

 

Fuck. That. Shit.

EDIT: Actually, you know what? Fuck the whole Star Wars EU. I've been hating it more every damn day for the past year now, with all the dumbass shit they add to it, and this just takes the cake. Practically the only reason I liked the KotOR era of the EU was Revan's ambiguous motives, which made him a far more interesting Sith Lord than any other. And now they've taken that too, putting him onto the fucking heap of Sith Lords in it just for power. And making him subservient to this Emperor? RAGE.

I bet that's only the start of their attempt to polarize the Force into "pure good" or "pure evil." I'm so fucking sick of that from Bioware.

And people ask me why I preferred KotOR 2 over the first one. This is why. They could handle not having the world divided into light and dark. Kreia and the Jedi Exile were the most interesting characters in Star Wars because of that. Neither were paragons or devils (well, not the way I played the Exile). Moral choices weren't just "I'm perfect! I forgive you! Mercy for all!" and "fuck you I'm evil! Feel the Force choke, peasant!" as the first KotOR seemed to be fond of.

 

Isn't the whole point that the dark side corrupts even those with the best intentions? I don't really see the problem with Revan actually turning evil at that point. Unless you mean even after the whole ordeal on the Star Forge he's still evil, cos that's utter bullshit.

 

Well, here's my feelings on the Force in a nutshell. I hate the idea that it's divided strictly into a pure "light side" and a corrupt "dark side". I feel that the Force shouldn't have specific alignments--that it is only power, and how that power is used determines the user's moral alignment. I might regret using this comparison, but, well, like a gun. A gun isn't good or evil, it's the person who uses it.

I also hate that it's said to have a will of it's own. It should be a force of nature, not some sapient spirit overmind thing. People talking about "the will of the Force" should be like someone saying "God has a plan", and just as full of shit.

Thus, I hate the idea that Revan's using the Force's power, even with good intentions, would inevitably corrupt him. It should be a matter of willpower, which Revan is said to have had in spades. Those that start going absolutely batshit with the Force just don't have the proper fortitude to master it.

So, yes, you're technically right, but I don't think that's how I think it should be. It just makes morals for Force-sensitives too... simplistic.

Well, there are two endings to KotOR.

 

Actually, if you watch their little holocron snippets, specifically #8, it says that Revan and Malak were pretty much already Dark Jedi when they met the Emperor, who turned them to his cause. However, during the search for the Star Forge, they got it in their heads that it should be them running things. So, when they found the Forge, instead of using it to initiate the True Sith invasion plan centuries early, they used it to form their own Sith Empire, one that they hoped to strengthen until they could defeat the True Sith. So, in a way, they were trying to prepare the galaxy for the TS invasion.

@Sion_Revan: I actually have to disagree with you on the issue of the nature of the Force. From a storytelling perspective, I think the idea of a corruptive force drawing a person towards evil in conjunction with their own inner darkness is much more interesting that just having a cosmic "gun". It makes the struggle against the Dark Side a more epic undertaking than if it was just some guy with too much power struggling with his conscience.

The way I look at how the Force should be, is that there are two sides - but rather than Good and Evil, they are Chaos and Harmony, and the line between them is pretty blurry. Both concepts are present - and necessary- for nature to function. Life (in the general sense, i.e. non-sentient) is in a constant state of chaos. All creatures survive- or don't- on their own merits, or often by chance alone. At the same time though, out of the chaos comes a certain harmony when nature reaches a balance between predator and prey, birth and death that ultimately benefits all.

The Light Side and the Dark Side are the extremes that can be equally harmful in their own ways (Pure harmony leads to stagnation, weakness and, eventually, death; Pure chaos leads to unending conflict, which also leads to death). With Force users, the primal struggle between those two opposing forces of nature is magnified.

So, in a sense, the Jedi and Sith need each other. Without the Jedi to oppose them, the Sith would run rampant, eventually destroying everyone and everything around them in their quest for greater personal power. Without the Sith (or some analogue), the Jedi and those they protect (i.e. the Republic) stagnate, grow arrogant and stupid as they forget that they aren't unbeatable (basically what happened in the thousand years leading up to Ep III, which is why Palpatine had such a relatively easy time of destroying both).

[/nerdgasm]

TL;DR:... I don't even... how do I summarize that?

 

No, according to canon, the dark Side SHOULDN'T exist. Its existence is a stain on reality. Remember, Anakin killing Palpatine was what "brought balance" to the force.

 

I think I derailed the thread a bit. >_>

Othalan, now that I think about it, I suppose your interpretation does retain the sort-of Buddhist philosophy that inspired Lucas in the first place that mine lacks. I guess I just prefer a more human element than a metaphysical one, though it seems having both (as long as they're done well) works best.

I hadn't seen that. It's still not really what I had envisioned, but as long as Revan isn't reduced to a needlessly bloodthirsty savage or something...

I was going to write a fanfic about Revan at one point, dealing with his time as a Knight and going through the Mandalorian Wars, but I dropped the idea for some reason or another. Maybe I'll pick that up again.

There are a lot of interpretations over what exactly bringing balance to the Force really means.

 

Hm.

I always thought of the prophecy a bit differently, but I never really looked it up, or read the books, I just watched the movies.

Episode one: Several hundred odd Jedi > Two, three Sith. The scales are pretty heavily skewed towards the Jedi.

End of Episode III: Yoda, Obiwan = Emperor, Vader.

Balance.

I might be wrong, but I like thinking that the Jedi misinterpreted balance being a "good" thing, and then getting boned because they trained the chosen one. >_>

 

...

That's an awesome idea, I'm pretty sure that all of the crap running around in the EU contradicts it though. Still I'd never thought of it that way, and it would be a nice twist to throw into the story.

 

The Episode III novelization by Matthew Stover (which is amazing, by the way, a must-read) says something about how the Jedi have weakened the light side through their large numbers, while all of the dark side's power has been focused into the two Sith.

EDIT: Here's the passage I'm referring to:

I would say that Anakin destroying the Jedi Order was just as necessary to restore balance to the Force as killing Palpatine was.

 

Yes, but still, balance in the force means no sith.

There were dozens of Jedi that survived episode III. less so that survived Vader's Great Purge, but still there were Jedi left, such as Solace, in the Corsucant slums.

 

I don't pay attention to the hundreds of random star wars books shat out by dozens of different authors, tbh.

What, do they just buy the rights to create a book and then just make up whatever they want?

 

It seems to me that "balance" would indicate that neither the Jedi or the Sith would have a distinct advantage.

Good. Unless of course you want to go crazy.

Mostly, yes. Some exceptions. And those exceptions are very exceptional.

 

Like anything by Timothy Zahn. <3
Or the X-Wing series.