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Plot Bunny Thread

Discussion in 'Fanfic Discussion' started by Skeletaure, Apr 17, 2009.

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  1. wordhammer

    wordhammer Dark Lord DLP Supporter

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    If he's applying any sort of brain power and self-determination, he already has the canon Harry outclassed. Besides, the rule doesn't work that way.

    Protagonists > antagonists is wank fantasy

    Protagonists = antagonists is a character drama (or wank fantasy by an adult)

    Protagonists < antagonists is a proper recipe for adventure

    Protagonists < Antagonist's pets is an epic or a tragedy
     
  2. Stalin's Pipe Organs

    Stalin's Pipe Organs Auror

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    Please don't quote Less Wrong.
     
  3. Katricia

    Katricia DA Member

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    Even if Less Wrong (he's that Methods of Rationality guy, right?) did say it, it's still a decent rule of thumb. Uber!Anyone vs. their Average!Enemy isn't very interesting to read. What's interesting about a story where Harry can simply snap his fingers and Voila! Dead Voldemort? (Not that there aren't hundreds of those out there anyways, of course.) Likewise, a story where Harry is so weak that he could never possibly win without a massive Deus Ex Machina is unlikely to be any more interesting. Although it could, I suppose, be done by a talented writer.

    Still, as a basic guideline I think that saying the villain and the hero should be at least somewhat on an even playing field is reasonable. I'm pretty sure someone has said something along the same lines about Joe's Wastelands of Time fic. Harry is pretty kick-ass, however the enemies he's facing have likewise been 'upgraded', so instead of failing miserably it ends up turning out awesome. (Of course, I haven't read all of Wastelands of Time yet so I'm assuming this still holds true for the later chapters.)
     
  4. ParseltonguePhoenix

    ParseltonguePhoenix Unspeakable

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    Oh, you mean canon Harry.
     
  5. Katricia

    Katricia DA Member

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    I pretty much walked right into that one, didn't I? XD
     
  6. ParseltonguePhoenix

    ParseltonguePhoenix Unspeakable

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    Pretty much. Either way, the point you were making is sound.
     
  7. Admonkeystrator

    Admonkeystrator Seventh Year

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    Post GoF would be alright.
    Blood ritual drains the power of his body, to keep voldemort's body together, scar-crux draws on voldemort's magic to keep harry's soul lodged in what's left of his body - prophecy compliant, in a winner takes all sort of way.

    i.e. Vold becomes weaker in magic to counteract Harry being frail of body.
     
    Last edited: Jul 23, 2010
  8. EinStern

    EinStern Seventh Year

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    ... That was pretty similar to what I was thinking. Mmph. I won't spoil the details for you, though, just in case I decide to actually jump down this rabbit hole.

    As for the First Law: I knew quoting Less Wrong was stupid, considering how he's regarded on this site, but you can't deny he's pretty much right in this case... He's an asshole, true, but he's an intelligent asshole... Which sucks. Arguing against that kind of asshole requires way too much effort for my tastes.
     
  9. Anarchy

    Anarchy Half-Blood Prince DLP Supporter

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    I've got three ideas in mind that I don't think I will ever get a chance to write. I've actually started the third one last year, but I got sidetracked with other stories so it never got far.

    I've been looking for decent hp/ll that I haven't read, or that I could reread and have not found many, so i've thought about writing my own. The ideas to be used are fairly common, but I don't think it has ever been done properly. I am most interested in a post-hogwarts fic, but at this point I just want to read a good story.

    -Harry takes serious interest in Luna during Slughorns party. This is the perfect canon divergence point for the pairing, although it is possible to do in in book 5 to as there are several good hp/ll scenes in that.

    -Harry never gets any romantic feelings for Ginny. She would not have a major role in the story.

    -Their relationship never gets too serious or public so Harry never breaks up with her after Dumbledores funeral

    - two possibilities here, but I think I would just have Harry and Luna by themselves hunting for horcrux. Luna's unique perspective on life allows them to locate them faster. The other option would to have the trio + Luna, but I do not think that would work well.

    -If they get capture and sent off to Malfoy Manor, it is possible that Ginny is the one captured instead. Haven't though that through all the way.

    -Final battle. Goes much the same. Maybe Bellatrix actually hits Ginny with the killing curse, and then destroys Molly in a duel because she is only a housewife.

    -Harry retrieves resurrection stone from forest. Wants to avoid a Gollum LotR scenario where some random dude comes across the stone accidental. Holds onto elder wand. Possible that Xeno Lovegood has more insight into the items.

    -Harry ends up repeating year 7 and is now in Luna's year. Luna doesn't repeat her year because it was not NEWT testing year, and she is smart enough to make up her missed work. Hermione also decides to redo the year. Ron doesn't. (If they did not go on Horcrux hunt, Hermione would probably not have gone to hogwarts because she is muggleborn?)

    -Harry decided he does not want to become and Auror as he has seen enough fighting. Decides to become and unspeakable instead. Luna and possibly Hermione help Harry catch up on the subject he needs to be an unspeakable. Luna also wants to become an unspeakable, an experimental charms researcher like her mom.

    I think the biggest factor of this story is exactly where the HP/LL starts.
    -If it starts after B6, then Harry would still be with Ron and Hermione and Luna would be prisoner at the Malfoys. All the Ginny angst and daydreaming could be replaced with Luna and their relationship could get more serious after the Malfoy house rescue and the time spent at Shell Cottage. It is possible to actually just start after the Final battle while everything else would be mentioned in flashback.

    -If it starts in b5 a lot could change. Cho stuff never happen, Sirius never dies, etc.


    Next story. Similar to the one above in that there are a lot of stories with similar concepts, but very few done write. This time it is an offshoot of the "Random person rescues Harry from the Dursleys." This time it is going to be Gellert Grindlewald.
    -Gellert knows exactly what Dumbledore is capable of and uses Harry to undo everything Dumbledore has laid out.

    -'Greater Good' is the theme of the story for obvious reasons

    -Dark Harry. Not necessarily evil (yet?) but future Dark Lord Potter is definitly possible. I would not use the term 'gray' at all duting the story, but rather that Harry has no reservations about ministry regulations and that magic is magic and it is ones actions or the intent of ones actions that defines you.
    -I would mostly likely go the dark-but-but-evil route and have him fight against the OOTP. He never uses unforgivables but is very skillful at fighting. He uses a lot of morally questionable curses but nothing sadistic- no torture spells, nightmare inducing spells, marrowfire, but stuff like withering, rupture, bloodboiling are all within the realm of possibility. Bonebreaking, cleaving curses, blasting hexes, fireballs, are his bread and butter.

    Next story; It is possibly to crossover with the Gellert Grindlewald idea.

    -Harry is brought to live at Grimmauld place by Sirius before Sirius goes after Pettigrew. Raised by Walburga until she dies several years later. Arcturus could be there also but I picture him being hospitalized with an unknown time delayed curse that is slowly killing him. Sirius is in Azkaban but Harry never ends up at Dursleys.

    -Harry can either live alone, learning how to survive by himself, selling black heirlooms or maybe magical ingredients or w/e. Or this is where Gellert could come into the scene if desired.

    -Ever since Harry began to live at Grimmauld Place, He has been known as a Black. I think the name Polaris Black fits good. He is played off as being the son of Regulus Black. with Regulus's date of death it is possible for this to be true. He enrolls at Hogwarts with that name, Everyone including Dumbledore thinks that Harry Potter died vanquishing the Dark Lord. The Dark Lords body was never found, but neither was Harry's but Harry did not have a horcrux to become a spectre with. Harry knows himself by the name Polaris, he does not remember ever being called Harry, but it is possible that he does know that he was once Harry Potter. In my mind that would not be significant to the story for a long time, if ever.

    -Harry arrives at Hogwarts a normal student like everyone else, but with the stigma of being a Black. Harry is as kindhearted as canon Harry, but many people look down at him because he is a Black. He even has a cuddly cat pet instead of Hedwig. (A baby nundu named King imo)

    -Sorted into Ravenclaw. He has had free run of the Black Library ever since Walburga died, and he likes to read. Knowledge is power and all. Slowly makes friends with some Ravenclaws, mostly all girls. Morag McDougal would be first choice for a pairing since it is rare, but Su Li could be intersting as well as any of the other girls. Even Luna next year could work. I use the word pairing loosely, more like best friend.

    -Harry is near the top of the year, a natural talent some would say. He simply practiced with his wand for a few years before coming to Hogwarts. Does not have HP holly wand.

    -All the teachers like him, Filius the most. Dumbledore is very weary of him because of his name.

    -Harry uncovers the Stone plot and makes it to the mirror. He merely wants to learn more about the stone and not to use it on himself.
    -Harry was merely curious about the stone so Quirrelmort does not kill him right away. Thinks that with proper manipulation that Harry could join the dark side. Harry inspects the stone and notices it is fake and was giving it to him when Dumbledore bursts into the room. Quirrel never actually brings out Voldemort.

    -Dumbledore blasts Quirrelmort and stuns Harry. Dumbledore shows great disappointment in the young 'Black' who he thought was giving the real stone to Voldemort out of promise of power but that was not the case. Dumbledore decides he has to watch him real carefully, even though Harry did not really do anything wrong.

    - sometime during the story Arcturus Black dies and with Harry the only Black alive and not in prison, becomes head of the house. this catches the attention of the media, and most prominently Lucius

    -Also sometime during the story, Meets Tonks who is either a 6th or 7th year. Harry may or may not be a metamorpmagus, doesn't really matter. Harry could have other rare talents as well in addition to snake talk. Telekineses would be interesting with how it could interact with actual magic.

    -When Harry becomes head of the house, Dumbledore tries to protest the emancipation and put him under ministry control. Dumbledore looses that fight as Harry has proof he can support himself as he has done so the past 6 years, or shows that he is already under (disguised)Grindlewalds care.

    -Book two thinks start to go downhill for Harry. Dumbledore thinks that he is the prime suspect for the attacks in the school or controlling the monster that does it. Harry never bothers to learn discover where the chamber was and Ginny dies in it. Riddle comes back from her death.
    -Harry does learn that the monster is a baslisk, and that he can communicate with it. A lulzy scene would be him dodging the snake in Hogwarts while his pet baby nundu tears its eyes out. The sname smashes the cat on the wall, nearly killing it. Harry tries talking to the snake to stop the killings. Dumbledore's perfect timing means he discovered Harry talking to snake and accuses him of controlling the monster.

    -Harry is expelled for Hogwarts even though he did not have anything to do with it. Harry's kindhearted nature is really taking a toll as the constant accusations get to him. Having the last name of Black did not help his case as most of the people in Hogwarts except the few that really knew him turn their backs.

    -Snake escapes to forest with reincarnated Riddle.

    -Sirius escapes azkaban for same reason as canon. Meets Harry at grimmauld place, Harry helps catch pettigrew and clear his name, but the court was still disgusted by the Black Name. Even if Sirius did not betray the Potters, Bellatrix was a sadist, and Harry supposedly killed Ginny and petrified students.

    -Harrys kindhearted facade crumbles from the unfairness of the world. He enrolls at Durmstrang where his soul hardens. Durmstrang is the perfect school to test Harry's aptidute for magic. Durmstrang holds no bias against and branch of magic, but does not teach anything truly malicious. They teach both of what Dumbledore would call 'light magic' and 'dark arts' but they simply say it is magic.

    -Courses are similar to Hogwarts except DADA is replaces with magical combat.

    -One of my pet peeves is when people actually make a class called Dark Arts. By calling a class specifically Dark Arts is singling it out and recognizing it as a tabooed subject, and is looked down upon by some. In my mind, Dark arts is a mix of subjects and should not have is own, and therefore just be integrated into its respective classes such as charms, magical combat, and potions. I think Durmstrang would take a more traditional neutral and academic outlook and not categorize a class as such, and instead take the route that magic is magic, it is ones intentions that categorize a spell and not the spell itself. The word dark would probably never even be used at the school, but rather by outsiders who must see the world as black and white when magic really cannot be seen as such as magic encompasses them all. I guess in my mind I see Harry using many different types of spells with no preexisting notion to what is morally questionable, but rather utility and effectiveness. I hate the Dark = easy and light = right argument so that would never be mentioned at all as things are never that simple. Enough of that rant!

    -Harry would eventually be what some would considered a dark wizard, but he would simply call himself a mage, or maybe something cheesy like a battlemage. He would probably fight under Voldemorts banners because he believes in his cause more than Dumbledores, even more so after What Dumbledore has done to him personally. It speaks a lot of Dumbledore's character.

    -similar to the grindlewald idea, Harry becomes a very skillful combatant, adept with many different spells. He never uses anything truly malicious and never takes joy in hurting other people. He is not feared by the Order, but rather respected. He does not like killing, althoughthe sometimes has to. It is the fact that he feels for those deaths, even though they are enemies, that make him human and not a monster. The day he participates in wanton killing is the day he looses himself like so many have before him, and he never wants that day to come.


    TLDR
     
  10. Scrib

    Scrib The Chosen One

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    But can Raistlin!Harry be pulled off?

    I mean, the only reason Raistlin was so good was because he was a single-minded sociopathic fuck who literally cared about one thing. That's what made up for his weakness.

    Harry however is can't be like that because of his friends and supporters unless you're completely willing to sacrifice Ron and Hermione (something I have no problems with) to allow Harry to be dedicated enough to overcome his issues.

    As for Voldemort, there's no fucking reason to nerf him. In canon he is literally orders of a magnitude better than Harry, I think you have a lot of wiggle room. No matter how string your Harry is Voldemort is probably stronger already, if not wordhammer's right, make him stronger. Harry doesn't need to be able to beat him in a one-on-one slugfest, he just needs to be able to beat him.
     
    Last edited: Jul 24, 2010
  11. Garden

    Garden Supreme Mugwump

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    No offense Lord Anarchy, but there seems to be some points in the first bunny where you introduce elements that wouldn't have any effect on the story. I do love the Slughorn idea, were Harry starts to like Luna. It's an interesting starting point, though it probably wouldn't have any effect on canon except pairings, because it's already 6th year(less time to improve skills or change his personality).

    1. "Ginny. She would not have a major role in the story". -I got no problem with Ginny dying, but what's the point if she's not relevant. Also, if Molly never beats Bellatrix in the Final Battle, then you've a powerful Death Eater who's running around who can disrupt other duels. Therefore, you'd expect a lot more casualties on the side of the Order.

    2".two possibilities here, but I think I would just have Harry and Luna by themselves hunting for horcrux. Luna's unique perspective on life allows them to locate them faster. The other option would to have the trio + Luna, but I do not think that would work well. " -Luna can't go if she isn't 17, because in canon Harry waits until he's 17 to start doing magic and start the horcrux hunt. She can get tracked down if she's too young. Why would Luna be helpful in finding horcruxes?
     
  12. Anarchy

    Anarchy Half-Blood Prince DLP Supporter

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    Valid points. I have only given about 30 minutes of thought to that, as compared to bunny#3 where i have actually written 20k words. Bunny#1 is supposed to concentrate more on Post-Hogwarts rather than being simply a slight canon rewrite.

    Luna's age is an important thing I missed. Her birthday is never mentioned I don't think (HP-Lexicon says 1981) but she may only be a few months younger than Harry as his birthday is only a month from the start of the school year.
    With you pointing that out, it would be more likely that Luna is added to the team either when they go to her house (could be at a different time than canon, before Death Eaters take her) or after they rescue her from the Malfoys. I think it would actually be an okay idea if Harry arrives at her house as Xeno is being threatened, and stops the Death Eaters from abducting her in the first place.
     
  13. Seratin

    Seratin Proudmander –§ Prestigious §– DLP Supporter

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    Dumbledore sighed and sank back in his chair, discarding the year's enrollment list. From the corner his Phoenix, Fawkes, trilled softly.

    "Another fucking Black, Fawkes. It's always the Blacks."
     
    Last edited: Jul 24, 2010
  14. Garden

    Garden Supreme Mugwump

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    I like the idea of Harry saving her, though since he's so protective of Ginny in canon(not letting her go with him, breaking up with her), it would have to take something special to make Harry bring Luna along on the trip.

    Honestly, I'd think that Harry/Luna earlier in the timeline would be a better decision in terms of actually changing canon. Otherwise it's a repeat of book 7 with Luna added in. Maybe him taking Luna(she's recommended to him by Ginny after she says she can't go with him to the ball) to the Yule Ball? I realize this is probably a little cliche, (though I have yet to see this exact scenario).
    As for the idea of Harry being raised by Blacks. It's original, but Sirius's mom and dad are assholes and racists. They supported Voldemort. I can't see harry becoming good after that environment(though Sirius did turn out good in the end so I suppose...).
    Also, if a fully grown nundu takes 100 skilled wizards to kill and has a poisonous breath, I don't think Harry will be able to have one. Even a baby one.
    That's also my only problem with Catharis(by Nuhuh, awesome fic), because it has a nundu being teleported by portkey to an office just to kill someone. There's no way you can do that in canon, because it's supposed to be more dangerous than any other magical creature. Just saying.
    /End nundu thread derail
     
  15. Anarchy

    Anarchy Half-Blood Prince DLP Supporter

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    Valid points and suggestions, all of it. Arcturus Black is actually Walburga's dad and Sirius granddad. I don't think Harry would ever meet him, he would be under constant study in St. Mungos magical damage ward.
    Walburga on the other hand is a different story. They may be assholes, but family and blood is a different story. Their is an often used idea that since wizarding children are so rare that they are very precious, even to the most black hearted of people. Even Lucious and Narcissa could love their child. Her motherly instincts could take over. Also, not all the blacks supported Voldemort, even if they did agree with some of his ideals. I don't remember if it was a fic I read ( Delenda Est maybe? ) or maybe even canon where much of the black family fortune was blown creating magical protections (warding - charms, enchantments, etc) on the Black Manor in case Voldemort decided to come calling.

    I thought of the nundu idea before I realized that nearly all of my ideas were already used and considered cliches. I think a baby nundu would be plausible. Their posionous breathe would not develop until they mature at 10 years old or something, after Harry is out of school. I am just fascinated with the nundu, it makes appearances in three of my published fics :) including my first one where Harry becomes a nundu animagus (haters will be haters!)
     
  16. Garden

    Garden Supreme Mugwump

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    I've always wanted to do a Harry who after he graduates becomes a naturalist(not the naked ones), like Luna, who discovers species and stuff.
    Anyways, cool idea with the Black family thing, I've never heard of a fic like this(with Sirius's mom raising him). Also I think you mentioned that she dies at some point;No kid under 13 is going to able to escape the authorities' notice when he lives alone. It seems kinda implausible. Anyways, cool idea with the older Blacks raising Harry.
     
  17. LuckyFelix

    LuckyFelix Seventh Year

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    About your third idea...first of all, what point is there to Grindelwald?

    But more importantly...a freaking baby nundu? Seriously? There are several issues that I have with that.

    First, nundu are supposed to be huge. I don't mean huge like a lion, I mean freaking huge like something that scoffs at lions as being too small for them to eat! With that in mind how would a baby nundu be in any way cuddly?

    Unless you're Hagrid, of course.

    I mean yeah, baby elephants might be sorta cute to some, but cuddly they are not.

    Next, the things take a hundred wizards to subdue! A hundred! DRAGONS, freaking fire breathing DRAGONS, can be subdued with a dozen stunners at once. Nundu? It'd laugh that off.

    So why on Earth would Harry want a pet nundu?

    Then there is the fact that it breaths poison, which tends to cut down on the cuddliness.

    And while Dumbledore may let a lot of crap happen at Hogwarts, do you honestly think he'd let a nundus in? Baby or not? Surely somebody would figure out what the thing was?

    There were a few other minor things that irked me about that, but otherwise it could be a very interesting story and one that I'd read.
     
  18. Garden

    Garden Supreme Mugwump

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    Don't hate on nundus. Anyways... baby elephants are cute(I was in Thailand and I saw one) but not cuddly, cause they're huge(like the size of fully-grown person or cow).

    The coolest nundu I've seen in fanfiction is in the fic "Learning to Breathe". The fic isn't that good but it does have some interesting fight scenes.

    Also, I agree with Lord Anarchy that this world desperately needs some good, long, Luna fics. The only really good one I know is Contemplating Clouds, though NMB's fic is also awesome(but its not only focused on romance).
     
  19. Anarchy

    Anarchy Half-Blood Prince DLP Supporter

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    None. When I was writing out my third idea I realized that it could incorporate the second idea with a little tweaking. I would rather not have him in the story, I just wished there were more stories out there involving him (In a non sexual way).

    Oh, and Nundus are easy to take down. Drown them!
    On a related note (shameless plug time) http://www.fanfiction.net/s/5563863/11/Harry_Potter_and_the_Root_of_all_Evil has a pretty good fight scene between Harry and his shaman mentor and a nundu.

    Who wouldn't want a cute cuddly baby nundu that would eventually grown into man eating village killing machine?
    [​IMG]
     
  20. EinStern

    EinStern Seventh Year

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    That is one cute kitten... But Nundus, in my experience, are more susceptible to water melons than actual water. Besides, it takes quite a bit of effort to drown one, while a water melon only needs to be aimed well. ;)

    Mmph, or, y'know, Harry could realize he's not really much without supporters and then act nice to his... "Friends". Manipulative!Harry is just so enticing when it's written well. Of course, if I had to jump down this rabbit hole (I really need to get a better analogy since it's a Plot 'Bunny' but bunny hole sounds so damn gay) I'd probably do both... Minus the part where it's written well. I really need to get some damn practice...

    True, dat. Voldemort is the greatest Warlock (as in, the old use of the world in Canon, a great fighter) in the Wizarding World, as he's quite capable of standing against the supposedly 'Greatest Wizard armed with an unbeatable wand' and pulling out a draw. This is especially impressive considering Voldy's only about half Dumbledore's age...

    No, frankly, I don't like Harry Potter beating either Dumbledore or Voldy in a fair fight - there's just no way he's that good, because those two are the greatest Wizards of their respective generations, and are many times his age... Harry should be fighting rather dirty, or win through the power of fuzzy luv as in Canon, if he wants to defeat Voldemort... Unless he has all of Voldemort's memories or something.

    Maybe he'd win then. Yay, Harry.
     
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