I hardly doubt that any of the professors would have any problem letting Dumbledore know everything or have their shields up around him. Besides, I hardly doubt he isn't smart enough to easily bypass such shields.

I would assume a good deal of the Order would know Occlumency for obvious reasons, including the fact a good number of them are Aurors.

 

Well I'm not sure how would you say the art itself is used. It's not even so much Dumbledore conspiracies as much as the man had a plan for Harry and anything that got in the way of his plan was to not be done.

 

Security clearance.

Or are you forgetting that Dumbledore didn't trust ANY of his peons with any information until either A: The shit had already hit the fan...

("Sorry about your godfather, Harry. By the way, I suspected Voldemort was breaking into your mind."

"Sorry about that snakebite, Arthur. Bet you wish you knew what you were guarding."

"Sorry about you getting attacked every year, Harry, I guess it should be obvious by now that Voldemort will never stop trying to kill you, so allow me to pointlessly confirm it.")

...or B: They were Snape. (And even Snape was left in the dark about some stuff.)

Dumbledore couldn't teach Harry Occlumency, because he was afraid that Voldemort might be the one looking out at him through Harry's eyes... and no one else could be trusted to teach him.

That leaves Snape. Dumbledore trusts him (because he has Snape so firmly by the balls that trust is scarcely an issue) and, should Dumbledore's fears prove true and Voldemort is in Harry's head, Snape can always give his master the excuse that he was doing it on the Headmaster's orders and that he isn't teaching 'the arrogant brat' anything useful.

Which proved true since Harry didn't learn and Snape did use his skull for a mosh pit and Voldemort was still able to send his pirate radio signal into Harry's brain.

----
Fact is, it didn't matter if Harry learned to protect his mind or not. Dumbledore barely told him (or anyone else) anything worth knowing (prophecy included - really, it didn't matter if Tom knew it or not) until right before he died.

By the time Harry knew anything worth knowing (Horcruxes, which used to be mentioned in books in Hogwarts library - take from that what you will about books on the mind arts), Voldemort was busy running a country behind the scenes, Snape was around to run interference, and Harry's death was vital to getting rid of the dark lord anyway (which Harry didn't know until it was nearly all over and, thus, was incapable of revealing).

All Harry had to do was not get caught until the right time and then die. Well, bravo!

----

Honesty, for fan fiction purposes, the most important thing about Occlumency, Occlumens, Legilimency, and Legilimens is how they are spelled.

If your story is going to suck ass, your version of those skills will as well. If the story is going to be good, your version of those likely will be as well.

Thus, all things being equal, it is more important not to misspell them like a fucking moron.

*directs the evil eye at the appropriate parties*
​

----
As for the super-powered Occlumency of fan fiction...

Compartmentalizing is a key word here. It all depends on how literally you take that. You have to remember that Harry's (or anyone else's) thoughts and memories aren't literally in a trunk, or a library, or a castle surrounded by patrolling dragons; it's all just a visualization tool used by the individual Occlumens to make his job of organizing and Compartmentalizing his thoughts easier.

A better visualization might, in fact, lead to a better/more thorough level of protection - protection that a Legilimens is going to have to overcome if they want access.

As an Occlumens, you can more efficiently compartmentalize emotions, aspects of your personality, which enables you to do certain things.

I've got a war to win, I don't have time for pity or squeamishness = well, it's turned off for now.

Never let them see you cry? I have no time for tears? Well, Occlumency can help with that.

Need to come off as calm, cool, and collected when you'd normally be sweating bullets? Occlumency allows you to push certain feelings aside long enough to convincingly, perhaps with seeming effortlessness, appear as though you are unafraid and have no need to worry.

Need to learn faster or study harder? Being able to ignore all external stimuli and concentrate solely on what you're reading could very well speed up learning.

This means laser-precise focus in the face of Ron farting in the chair next to you, Seamus and Dean discussing the merits of muggle booze over wizard-produced liquor, first years arguing over a game of gobstones, the antics of someone's cat, the lace of Hermione's bra juuuust coming into view as she chews on her lower lip across the table from you...

But you aren't distracted. You're the normal person in a world of ADHD sufferers.

And it wouldn't be too far-fetched to say that you can also make better use of what you just learned because, by organizing your mind, training yourself to operate in a particular fashion -by Compartmentalizing- you can retrieve this information faster, remember things more efficiently.

It's like a mnemonic device to the Nth degree.

In the end it's all about willpower, focus, and training your brain to work the way you want it to (In the Wheel of Time series, this extends to the point where some characters, usually wielders of the One Power, don't even allow themselves to sweat in the heat or show discomfort in the cold).

In real life people can do some of these things to a limited degree. And in Harry Potter, as in real life, some people are going to be more naturally predisposed toward these skills. Harry sucks at it because he tends to wear his heart on his sleeve... and he has another presence inside his head.

Snape doesn't have to fight the other consciousness in his own head every time he uses Occlumency.

Someone like Hermione, with a regimented, organized mind and disciplined personality, would probably pick up the Mind Arts a lot more easily and/or use them more efficiently than the emotional, passionate Harry Potters of the world or the lazy, temperamental Ron Weasleys.

To a certain extent, visualization and reality blur. Are your troublesome memories really in a trunk marked 'Shit that makes me lose bladder control?' No... But with enough practice, they'd might as well be.

It can't do everything, which some fan fiction seems to say, but it is fairly handy.

----
On Topic Addendum: It may very well be that many people know a little Occlumency... but not enough to be very useful. You would have very few on the level of Dumbledore, Voldemort, or Snape, some on Draco's level.

Then you'd have a handful of people that can't keep a determined Legilimens out of their head, but they can ignore the pain in a wounded leg long enough to walk to the floo and go for treatment.

Then you'd have a larger number who can't even do that but they have really great Occlumency-aided memory.

And on the Legilimens side you have those who can break in and rape your mind... and those who might just have a knack for sensing subtle nuances of emotion from whoever they're talking to. It makes them more perceptive, but that's about all.

Also, where the small top tier of Occlumens would be able to do it all (protect thoughts, better memory, better focus, shut off emotions, ignore pain), a larger number might only have one aspect down. Some might be good at the learning/memory related parts but stink at everything else, while others might be able to suppress their fears and pains, but can't focus on what they're trying to learn for shit.

Knowing Occlumency/Legilimency doesn't mean you automatically master every single aspect. As such, while there would be few Master Occumens/Legilimens, there would be many who have dabbled and either failed, or succeeded in learning one or more aspects to varying degrees.

 

I'd think that a 'master' of Occlumency, assuming that Snape is one, would have an extraordinary amount of control over their memories.

I can't see Riddle tolerating followers who can block him out if he decides to peek in their heads. From Riddle's perspective, it would constitute a galaxy-sized security risk. This would mean that Snape is so fucking good that he can present alternate/false memories when Riddle tries to dig in his head. He's so good that Riddle doesn't even realize that Snape is doing anything out of the ordinary.

The above suppositions assume that Riddle routinely practiced Occlumency against Snape. It's been a while since I read the books, so I don't know if that is true in canon or not.

 

That's what I always assumed Occlumency was in the first place. If they're using legilimency in the first place then they'd probably just torture the information out once they realized that something was being hid from them.

 

Shouldn't it be that Riddle practiced Legilimency against Snape Occlumency?

Beside I don't think Snape needed to be that good. Let's not forget he supposed to spy for Voldemort in Order, so in the end Dark Lord probably accepted that Severus needed to be so good at Occlumency that even he can't read his mind, because otherwise it would only meant that Dumbledore also could do this.

 

Yes. Thanks.

I think that Snape does need to be that good. You're assuming that Dumbledore is Riddle's equal in Legilimency. I've seen nothing in canon to suggest this. If Riddle is ok with Snape being able to block him out, then he's far more of a moron than he was in canon.

 

I wouldn't say that. Using spies is always risk interest for everybody and Riddle knew that. He would be moron if he was telling Snape his more important plans or something. And nothing in canon suggest also that Dumbledore was not as good as Riddle with Occlumency. And even if he wasn't, Voldemort always was afraid of Albus power, so he could assume that he was that good with reading minds.

 

I'm sure Snape is more than capable of blocking out eye contact legilimency, but if Voldemort really wanted Snape's information, he would strap him down in a chair, use a wand, and yell the incantation for maximum effect. Of course, Snape would then realize his cover is blown and shit goes down hill from there. Voldemort does put trust in his non-retarded followers, and Snape takes advantage of that.

 

Lol, quite a dispute we got going here. I like the idea of a thumbs down button.

 

The fact that Voldemort didn't do exactly that to all of his followers, non-retarded or not, proves that he is a moron

If I were Voldemort, I would be worried about Snape's loyalty, more than anyone else's, just because he's been around Dumbledore long enough that AD might have had a chance to talk him around.

---------- Post automerged at 07:54 PM ---------- Previous post was at 07:52 PM ----------

Actually, why don't we have a thumb's down button?

 

I'm honored.

My problem with this is that it implies that Voldemort is fine with just asking a question verbally, and trusting his Legilimency to detect a lie. Is Voldemort really that fucking stupid. Given his 'attitude', maybe so. I wasn't so much disagreeing with you as putting forth an alternative idea.

That's certainly one way to look at it.

 

What Warlocke said, pretty much.

Voldemort may fear Dumbledore's power, but he knows the man's character, or thinks so, at least. He is sure that Dumbledore blindly trusts Snape's love to Lily (which is pretty much true, too) and that's why he accepted Snape's story.

 

Meh.

You weren't here when there was a Positive/Negative Reputation function.

The negative reputation feature was so heavily abused that rep had to be removed entirely. Granted, a 'thumbs down' wouldn't have the visible cumulative impact that the Neg Rep did, but...

It's unnecessary. If you don't like someone's post, you can either not say anything, tell them you think they're wrong, or call them a stupid cunt (as some people do).

The thumbs up is merely a visual for people that are A: Too lazy to read the thread for comments about their post, and/or B: People too lazy to write out what they liked about your post.

Thumbs down is stupid, there's enough negativity here (and elsewhere) as it is.

 

Since I'm working on a pretty long Occlumency scene in the next chapter of my story, does anyone know what the plural form of Occlumens is? I couldn't find it anywhere, and I'm currently using Occlumentes since I think that's how to make it plural in Latin.

 

Plural of Occlumens would be Occlumens, no?

The lone Occlumens blew his nose.

The gathered Occlumens blew their noses.

Don't fix what isn't broken. Occlumenses is too clumsy, Occlumentes is trying to hard.