Shit, there goes my favorite female character in Naruto. I'll probably swear for the dozenth time that I won't read the manga again after such a disappointment, and then when I come by this thread again, I'll forget my promise and eagerly read the latest chapter.

Naruto's a damn roller coster ride, most of the time the plot's steadily going downhill, with brief moments of awesomeness.

Fuck she should have lived.

 

We didn't see the moment of her death or her body, so there is small chance she will live.

 

Now we know why Rain ninjas in Chuunin Exam and elsewhere were so pathetic. It is no wonder when they had to help with infusing six hundred billion exploding tags with chakra. They were probably happy when they squeezed out one E-rank Jutsu.

 

Yeah, about the whole 6 Billion Explosive tags buisness...You guys do remember that Konan is/was a paper user right? Just take a single existing explosive tag and make paper clones out of it or use some other technique...Just a guess that she might've used something like that. The chapter also seems to indicate she did it over a long period of time ( Atleast 2-3 years I'm thinking). Didn't the chapter indicate that she was looking into Madara's weaknesses from the beginning? Mebbe Just for such an occasion?

...Or am I reading too much into the chapter? >_>

 

I mean, maybe she pulled a Naruto, and made a whole bunch of Shadow and/or Paper Clones to help her make that many Explosive Tags.

If Naruto can gain x amount of years with a ridiculous load of Shadow Clones training for a single day, I imagine Konan, being the ridiculous Akatsuki-level that she is, should be able to pull off something similar. Maybe not the same extent as Naruto, haxed as he is with the Kyuubi inside him, but something similar all the same.

 

If Rain had printing press for example (a possibility because of confusing levels of technology in Naruto and Rain looks futuristic), it would not be that impossible to create six hundred billion paper tags.

But you have to infuse chakra into them if you want to have exploding ones. Konan is not a Jinchuuriki (or Hoshigaki I suppose) so she does not have monstrous chakra reserves. She cannot abuse Shadow Clone kinjutsu like Naruto and Shadow Clones would still have to infuse their chakra to create Exploding Tag which could be enough to destroy them if Konan split her chakra to hundreds of clones evenly.

It is possible for her (IMO) to create hundreds of Paper Clones and Henge them into Exploding Tags but it would leave her with chakra reserves of FreshGenin!Sakura every day so she would be useless to Akatsuki.

 

Meh. Always though seal work required talent, special ink and infusing the symbols with your intent. Maybe, maybe not. Commandeering the 'Ame Gazette' for a while I suppose would work if if a seal is just ink in a certain shape on a surface.

Konan manipulates paper, fair enough, maybe she used clones, fair enough. However, Konan's no Naruto and the number of clones he makes is impossible for the vast majority of people in the world. Creating a thousand clones and consequently dividing his chakra by a thousand seemingly without ill effect is due to the Kyuubi. 'Akatsuki-level' does not make you an automatic chakra beast, you should know this.

Clones/paper manipulation are definitely involved somehow but if you put things into perspective 1000 Konans making a tag each every second, continuously, without ever stopping until they got their target would still take 19 years.

This is why I said there should not have been numbers involved- it should have just been 'an ocean of paper/explosive tags' and we'd come to our own, fitting conclusions.

I already stopped caring about this sometime yesterday.

 

I just assumed it was something like shuriken shadow clone.

 

I really didn't want to go into numbers...but I'm bored. >_>

Lets assume for a minute a single paper clone would contain/made-up-of about 10,000 explosive tags. Why 10,000? Consider the size of a single tag and the size and mass of a human body...(I think 10,000 fall quite a bit short). Now lets assume Konan creates 10 Paper clones every hour( Forget seconds) each day for say 2-3 years...You'll find 6,000,000,000, quite a reachable figure. And I'm not even talking about shadow clones. I'm talking something like Mud clones or more appropriately
the kikaichu clones/shadow clone combo kinda thing, which would take far less chakra than a shadow clone i.e. no splitting.

Also...as for chakra capacity... C'mon man, she's an S-class Nuke nin. You do know what that means right? That she's atleast 2 times more chakra capable than Kakashi in the beginning of the series(I dunno where kakashi stands right nao.)? While she's no Naruto nor Kisame...She's still a kunoichi far above the normal Jounin and for once a Justified position given to her by the latest chapter. ( Which I fully approved of. Except for Konan dying. Which Sucked )

Also, as far as seals are concerned, its never been confirmed how they actually work...Have they? I didn't think so atleast. Fanon would have me believe Seal masters are rare and they make a fortune just by creating various kind of tags. Maybe they do, maybe they don't. Also in doubt is the whole requirement of the special ink, putting chakra etc, etc. There are several circumstances that show to the contrary. Orochimaru's Five element seal ( The one he put on Naruto) didn't seem to require preparations such as the ones mentioned above. Neither did Minato's Dead Demon consuming seal. It seemed more like the Jutsu transformed into a seal. So I'll go out on a limb and say you probably could make an explosive tag by using a Jutsu too ( Just one of the methods). Mind you, I've never read the data books and such, so all the above could be my ridiculous imagination. >_>

Or Konan probably bought them Wholesale.

And I feel so low after thinking that much about a bloody Shonen Manga. -___-

Edit : Yeah, my bad. I meant power level...But that felt so much like describing DBZ characters, I refrained from using that term.

 

She's not, because her faction won Amegakure civil wars. But I understand you mean her power level.

I read data books, because I like statistics (even if sometimes they are not making any sense when you read what just happened in manga). Kakashi have chakra level 3/5, so I doubt Konan (there wasn't any stats for her yet) had twice as much (unless it's not linear but exponential growth).

Others chakra level:
- Naruto 5/5,
- Jiraiya 5/5,
- Tsunade 4/5,
- Orochimaru 3.5/5,
- Itachi Uchiha 2.5/5,
- Kisame Hoshigaki 5/5.

I'm waiting for next data book, because I want to see Pain's stats and how much Naruto has grown. In the last data book, describing stats from beginning of part 2 (or I think it's from there), he had total sum at level 26/40, the same as Sakura, when Sasuke had 31.5/40. It's clear which sannin was better teacher.

 

Its hard to go by Data books at this point. Itachi might have lower chakra but he kicked Orochimaru's ass when Orochimaru tried to steal his body. And by the published data books Itachi and Jiraiya are at the same level of skill both scored at 35.5/40. I like Itachi, I personally think a healthy Itachi could atleast hang with just about anyone, except Jiraiya and Minato. Minato is obvious, but even Nagato said that if Jiraiya had known the secret about the 6 paths Jiraiya would have beat him. I dont see Itachi standing much of a chance against Jiraiya.

 

As far as the Sannin go, Orochimaru was a cowardly pussy who made a living out of running from every fight that didn't remotely go his way. His most notable skill is his refusal to die and going to any length to do so. Jiraiya didn't have the option to get fucked up and come back right as rain a little bit later. He had to work for his skills, from years of sealing to years of sage work. He also probably went farther with the toads than Orochimaru ever went with the snakes.

At this point, I'd call Jiraiya the single strongest person presented during Naruto's lifetime, even stronger than Minato. But I'd attribute that to the sage chakra. Minato was never said to use sage chakra or even know how to use it, but if he could then he would take the title of strongest hands down. Can you imagine hiraishin and sage levels?

If he did during his battle against Madara, then Madara wouldn't still be alive. Period.

TLDR: Rest in peace, Pimp Lord. And Minato was hax.

 

The wording the the chapter implied fairly strongly it was a plan of Konan's and her doing but you raise a good point, it doesn't have to be just her chakra at all. I

Alright. Then going based on your assumption 100,000 tags an hour (10,000tagsx10 clones) x 24hrs a day x 365 days a year = 876,000,000 tags a year which translates to 2,628,000,000 over three years. This is less than half of your quoted 6,000,000,000 figure. This means that even if you doubled your estimate of tags in a clone from 10,000-> 20,000 you would still fall short of your figure for the three years.

Oh, did I mention.... she created 600,000,000,000 (six hundred billion) tags, not 6,000,000,000. So the estimations you've done would not only miss the figure you quoted... the figure you quoted is a hundred times less than the figure that's actually in question.

I get the gist of what you're saying and she's undoubtedly one of the most powerful in the series but you should know better than thinking chakra levels equate power- especially with respect to Konan who's jutsu look far more control intensive than power intensive. Neither Orochimaru nor Itachi could match Naruto in terms of chakra yet he proved inferior to both of them for various reasons. The same could be said of Orochimaru losing to Itachi despite having far more chakra and experience as a shinobi. What level of criminal do you think Itachi would qualify as with Sakura's chakra levels? He would still stand heads above the majority of characters in the series in terms of deadliness and would still be an 'S-rank' criminal due to a combination of that and the severity of his alleged crime.

Point taken, I confess a lot of what I thought I knew about seals might be, perhaps inevitably, fanon influenced.

 

Funny thing you said that, because going by 3rd data book Sakura and Itachi have the same chakra level.

 

Agreed.

Minato is without doubt the biggest badass we have seen, but I have no problems taking Jiraiya over Minato anyday going on what we have seen. Jiraiya was in a league of his own really.

In addition to being the strongest, I would call him the most diverse, aside from possibly Nagato. Sealing, sage mode, summoning, lots of different ninjustu, and no slouch at taijustu; his only real weakness was genjustu.

 

Madara appears to be a fucking admin. Damn!


It does appear that the numbers don't add up when it comes to Konan's Jutsu, but then again it is hard to explain how you can control the clouds to bring rain, how you can create solid real bodies out of literally nothing, creating massive water/earth masses, directing them and all that. I think we should leave well enough alone.


I'm not sure guys, I think Nagato should have his place near Jiraiya and Minato. Even if Jiraiya had known about the six Pains, that doesn't mean he wouldn't have the hardest time of his life.

 

Very true; Naruto works much better when you don't try to over-analyze it or think too much about how jutsu work. How did Konan make 600 Billion explosive tags? Ninja paper magic.

 

^This

Not even just Naruto but series like it in general, you really have to just train yourself to not think about things like that. 99.9% of the time it never leads anywhere positive and mostly just sucks the fun right out of the story.

 

Lol, yeah. Math-fail on my part there. >_>

Meh, while I agree it was bad form on Kishimoto's part to introduce actual numbers at this point, I still have no problems taking it in, in the realm of this particular universe.

Tsunade. Hands Down.

Because...seriously, to bring what was Haruno Sakura that was pre-timeskip to what she is nao is nothing short of a Miracle-worker. And even after that Sakura seems to be determined to dissappoint. -__-

Also consider Sasuke. He has the Sharingan. Orochimaru probably didn't have to teach anything. He's also a prodigy/Genius to begin with. So his growth is pretty underwhelming as far as I'm concerned. >_>

And Naruto...Well, I think I can safely say that a lot of us were dissappointed with the Post-Timeskip/Shippuden Naruto. But I still have hope that Jiraiya taught Naruto much more than what was shown in that test with Kakashi, what with all the hints towards "that Jutsu" and the ease with which Naruto seems to handle seals (The whole sage's seal while conquering Kyuubi and all). Its also a Jiraiya's and Naruto's fanbois hope.

As for being who the best teacher is, Jiraiya's speech to Orochimaru in the Tsunade-retreival arc comes to mind. Naruto is not a talented Shinobi, neither is he a genius like Sasuke. In fact I'd go so far as to say he actually is a dunce who works really really hard. I like that in Naruto's characterization( Pre-timeskip Naruto was my favourite character). It makes for the classic underdog story.

So yeah. >_>

/rant