1. DLP Flash Christmas Competition + Writing Marathon 2024!

    Competition topic: Magical New Year!

    Marathon goal? Crank out words!

    Check the marathon thread or competition thread for details.

    Dismiss Notice
  2. Hi there, Guest

    Only registered users can really experience what DLP has to offer. Many forums are only accessible if you have an account. Why don't you register?
    Dismiss Notice
  3. Introducing for your Perusing Pleasure

    New Thread Thursday
    +
    Shit Post Sunday

    READ ME
    Dismiss Notice

Magic the Gathering

Discussion in 'Gaming and PC Discussion' started by Skeletaure, Sep 15, 2010.

  1. nonjon

    nonjon Alumni Retired Staff

    Joined:
    Dec 1, 2005
    Messages:
    2,129
    It's wrong how much I'm enjoying this bitch'n'moan-fest about Magic.

    Some points that need to be said though: first off, turn 4 or turn 3 kills are a hell of a lot more rare than you make it sound. Yes, red deck wins, or Boros Bushwhacker landfall decks can hit great openings and get there, but with Alara rotating out and Jund falling from its peak the speed has gone down. Mana Leak coming back into standard probably single-handedly slowed down the entire metagame.

    And even still, this is nothing on combo winter where people won tournament match-ups without the other player even getting a turn. Affinity was nearly as bad. And Flash-Hulk is just plain comical (I'll go first... wait, during your upkeep, 32 damage to your face... Fuck you. I miss the good old days of Fallen Empires).

    The decks that you may have loved can't exist in a vacuum with the decks of today's standard. They all grew and evolved based on what the other decks in standard at the time of them were.

    If you remember the cards and blocks of six years ago, then undoubtedly some of the cards spoiled for Scars will look broken as shit. In that format, they probably would be. But I haven't seen any yet that jump out to me as patently too good or unbeatable knowing the other cards currently in standard.

    The other aspect of magic we've been ignoring is that it's a lot more than making the best possible or tournament winning deck. Casual fun games are infinitely more satisfying to me. My favorite deck I made in the last year was undoubtedly the junk-colored sanguine bond lifegain deck. It'd never stand a chance at tournament level but it was great fun to play. The only other deck I've had as much fun playing is Lulzmage. A kicked Rite of Replication on just about anything has got to bring a smile to your face.

    For just about every awesome way too expensive card, there's probably a cheap common or uncommon that can blow up that strategy. The card spoiled in Scars that made me the happiest so far? Volition Reins at the uncommon level. Standard's finally got a way to steal Planeswalkers. Can you imagine letting your opponent push his Jace the Mind Sculptor up to its ultimate ability, only to grab it and blow them up instead? The look on their face if you pull that off might be as good as a surprise Coalition Victory.

    That's part of what makes the game great in my opinion. You can have a much worse deck, much worse cards, and still win. And it really wouldn't be as fun if everyone lost gracefully. A furious, pissed rage quitter gives everyone else the warm and fuzzies.
     
  2. Silens Cursor

    Silens Cursor The Silencer DLP Supporter

    Joined:
    Nov 23, 2008
    Messages:
    2,224
    Location:
    The other side of reality
    Dude, I miss Fallen Empires too. Oh, Hymn to Tourach...

    But that's not the point I'm trying to make here. I love casual insane magic games too - hell, in this thread I've cited Reject Rare Drafts and Ironman gaming (the blender version) as two of my favourite variants. I've played and loved Vanguard (hell, I even made my own Vanguard collection in contrast to the newest releases - contact me if you're interested in the details), and I'm as much of a fan of Unglued, Unhinged, and multiplayer magic games as ever.

    And yeah, I'll admit that combo winter was bad - but so was White Summer, that got Lin Sivvi banned. And even though I played Ravager-Skullclamp-Affinity before they banned the fuck out of that block, I never found it that broken - one Granulate or Arc-Slogger crippled the entire deck, and the second Imi Statue came out, Ravager-Affinity was over. If anything, Tooth-and-Nail was far more irritating.

    But the point I'm trying laboriously to make is that the metagame in Magic has changed. You could show up in a tournament with one of those wacky decks that nobody saw coming and still have a great shot at winning everything. I've seen Sunburst and Wizard decks, two universally reviled deck types, steamroller entire tournament because nobody understood how bloody crazy they were. And it was awesome. Or a Sliver deck coming out of nowhere and wreaking havoc - THAT was awesome.

    But let's be honest here - a lot of those wacky deck archetypes don't even exist anymore into today's format. A lot of the insane diversity is gone, because the power creep has rendered those decks unable to compete. And yeah, thank god Jund is finally getting out, but Scars still seems just as insane as Mirrodin was - and with power creep in full swing and nothing like the Slogger to slow things down, it's going to be insane.

    And I don't even think the power creep would have pissed me off as much, if it wasn't for the arrogance. Jesus, that fucking infuriates me. These smug little Spike-pissants think they're all that because they built a deck with zero imagination that they got online. And with power creep the way it is, if you don't have current cards or playing one of the very specific archetypes that beats that deck, those little skill-less fuckers are extremely frustrating to beat. It started with motherfucking Kithkin, and it's only gotten worse.

    See, I remember a day when you needed skill to play Magic - you know, when a deck like Opposition or Cadaverous Bloom or the Necrodeck required careful balancing and a lot of genuine thought to play properly. Even recent archetypes like Ravager-Affinity or Blue-Green Madness needed some skill to play. But right now... it's not the same, I'm sorry.

    I'm not bitching about the casual scene - that group is still a load of fun. But the tourney competitive scene is a nightmare, and the butchering of the backstory is, in my opinion, damn near unforgivable. I really cannot believe I'm saying this, but Tehan is right about this, particularly with Magic and Warhammer 40k (fucking 5th Codex...)

    EDIT: oh, and Taure, just to point one thing out - life gain is really not a great game strategy unless you're running elves and a little card called Wellwisher...
     
    Last edited: Sep 17, 2010
  3. Giovanni

    Giovanni God of Scotch

    Joined:
    Aug 4, 2005
    Messages:
    8,904
    Location:
    Gilligan's Island
    EDH is a fun game to play. My problem is that my only Sol Ring is currently in the possession of my (thieving) younger brother (finished college to find that he'd raided my old collection in a series of poorly advised trades made with the locals. If he had gotten equal value I wouldn't be mad, but nothing even close.) I don't feel like being a douchebag about getting it back (not when he owes me ~300 -- I'd rather be a douchebag about that since he's been bitching for years that I owe him 20 bucks.)

    At least the little shit didn't trade my Tolarian Academy.

    It's not so much that the cards is Scars are unbeatable individually. It is that what's been spoiled so far looks overpowered (even considering the current standard rotation.) As an aside, the White gain life deck has become popular again with that annoying little 1/1 for 1 with Lifelink from M11. I guess it might be time to look at the decklist for a tournament winner and sub out something good for copies of Celestial Convergence, Serra Avatar, and Noble Purpose for casual play.

    EDIT: Funny story about Fallen Empires. The first boxes I ever bought were from that set. A local hobby shop was going out of business (in 1999!) and they had three left over (still!) because no one wanted to buy them. Fifty dollars (total) for three (they were trying for 25 each, but couldn't get it.) I, to this day, think that I overpaid (although I ended up breaking even through trades.)
     
    Last edited: Sep 17, 2010
  4. Skeletaure

    Skeletaure Magical Core Enthusiast ~ Prestige ~ DLP Supporter

    Joined:
    Mar 5, 2006
    Messages:
    2,842
    Location:
    United Kingdom
    High Score:
    13,152
    I wasn't meaning up your life in game. I was meaning agree to start the game with higher life than 20, to counteract the power of some cards. Game takes longer to finish, and some cards (or card combos) that would be instant kills become merely serious injuries.
     
  5. Krogan

    Krogan Alien in a Hat ~ Prestige ~ DLP Supporter

    Joined:
    Dec 8, 2007
    Messages:
    190
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    North Carolina
    High Score:
    2,719
    Hey you may not like it but until you've been the one who uses it and watches the impotent rage on your opponents face while your life soars to fucking ridiculous numbers don't knock it. I can't help but cackle maniacally every time I pull the first one out in a match and watch them figure out part one of my plan and not be able to do anything about it.
     
  6. Giovanni

    Giovanni God of Scotch

    Joined:
    Aug 4, 2005
    Messages:
    8,904
    Location:
    Gilligan's Island
    You want to know an annoying gain life deck that used to be fun? Serra Avatar/Noble Purpose/Yawgmoth's bargain. Get the Avatar and Noble Purpose in play. Use Bargain to draw. Watch your life total rise exponentially. I wonder if I still have the cards for that laying around somewhere.
     
  7. Krogan

    Krogan Alien in a Hat ~ Prestige ~ DLP Supporter

    Joined:
    Dec 8, 2007
    Messages:
    190
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    North Carolina
    High Score:
    2,719
    Lol I actually saw that used once, nasty nasty shit. I prefer my own though, say on one turn I have four elves plus a Wellwisher on the field, I play Elvish Promenade and double the number of Elves of the field, thats ten life from that one Wellwisher in one turn. Next turn I play one more Wellwisher, generate two tokens from an Imperious Perfect and Rhys the Redeemed, thats fifteen elves and I double that with another Promenade, I now have 30 Elves on the field, two Wellwishers thats 60 life in one turn. Next turn wash, rinse and repeat, I now have 3 Wellwishers in play and 70 Elves on the field, thats 210 life in that one turn. Wash, rinse repeat for the last time, I now have all four Wellwishers out and 150 Elves on the field, thats 600 life in one turn and the number of Elves is only going to increase.

    Its just fucking mean:awesome.
     
  8. Silens Cursor

    Silens Cursor The Silencer DLP Supporter

    Joined:
    Nov 23, 2008
    Messages:
    2,224
    Location:
    The other side of reality
    I've seen both of those decks - nasty, nasty shit.

    Fortunately, Time Spiral finally gave me the spell to handle your little elves with my Necrodeck. A little thing I like to call Damnation.
     
  9. Giovanni

    Giovanni God of Scotch

    Joined:
    Aug 4, 2005
    Messages:
    8,904
    Location:
    Gilligan's Island
    That one is fun, but Avatar and Noble purpose allows for an obscenely high life total at a more rapid pace. Fill out the rest of the deck with discard cards and tiny creatures in an attempt to round out the mana curve. The deck is fun because against creature/token heavy deck types it can result in a decking of the person while you sit there and laugh at them. An alternative way to make people rage? Add green (1 forest, one rancor - Bargain guarantees you'll draw both), and then proceed to give one of your 500k/500k Avatars +2-0 and trample.

    Also, Magistrate's Scepter is going to be fun to bring back in casual play with Scars of Mirrodin since it gives you a ton of cards that let you put extra counters on things. Infinite turn loop for the win!
     
    Last edited: Sep 17, 2010
  10. Antivash

    Antivash Until we meet again... DLP Supporter Retired Staff

    Joined:
    Apr 2, 2005
    Messages:
    6,957
    Location:
    Ghost Planet
  11. Krogan

    Krogan Alien in a Hat ~ Prestige ~ DLP Supporter

    Joined:
    Dec 8, 2007
    Messages:
    190
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    North Carolina
    High Score:
    2,719
    You know I have four Privileged Positions right?
     
  12. Silens Cursor

    Silens Cursor The Silencer DLP Supporter

    Joined:
    Nov 23, 2008
    Messages:
    2,224
    Location:
    The other side of reality
    And you should know that protection does NOTHING against mass-kill attacks :D
     
  13. Krogan

    Krogan Alien in a Hat ~ Prestige ~ DLP Supporter

    Joined:
    Dec 8, 2007
    Messages:
    190
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    North Carolina
    High Score:
    2,719
    Huh must play by different rules or something then, cant be targeted means the spell cant hit my creatures when I've played. Regardless, all of my important creatures are protected with Shield of the Oversoul and I have more life than you can ever take down :p.
     
  14. Silens Cursor

    Silens Cursor The Silencer DLP Supporter

    Joined:
    Nov 23, 2008
    Messages:
    2,224
    Location:
    The other side of reality
    Ah, I see. Shield of the Oversoul would protect your creatures even despite Damnation (which does not target). That's why I run a little fun card called Faceless Butcher to deal with indestructible creatures. If you've got both the Shield and the Position... well, I have Grave Pact, but that's a bit of a gamble in itself.
     
  15. Krogan

    Krogan Alien in a Hat ~ Prestige ~ DLP Supporter

    Joined:
    Dec 8, 2007
    Messages:
    190
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    North Carolina
    High Score:
    2,719
    Hmmm true very true, however the massive creature spawn with Wellwisher is only half of the strategy, the other revolves around massively pumped up creatures. Your strategy would work with Damnation and such but your relying on being able to get it out before I can smash your face in with several 300/300 Elf tokens with first strike, trample and Deathtouch. Immaculate Magistrate was a godsend for this type of deck :D.
     
  16. Militis

    Militis Supreme Mugwump

    Joined:
    Jun 24, 2008
    Messages:
    1,683
    Location:
    Online
    Yeah, just that one. Thanks.

    This look about right?

     
    Last edited: Sep 17, 2010
  17. nonjon

    nonjon Alumni Retired Staff

    Joined:
    Dec 1, 2005
    Messages:
    2,129
    This is where everyone else would lose in their upkeep to the new kid playing a reject rare deck who just Hive Minded his Pact of the Titan. Muhahaha.
     
  18. Giovanni

    Giovanni God of Scotch

    Joined:
    Aug 4, 2005
    Messages:
    8,904
    Location:
    Gilligan's Island
    Meanwhile I got bored today and, knowing of an impending visit from a Tea Party loving member of the family, decided to do something stupid. As a consequence of my stupidity, I bought a box of M11. This action was utterly pointless with a new set so close to arriving, but I thought that I had a moral obligation to do it anyway. What this moral obligation was I do not know, and could not explain if asked. I think it was mostly the fact that I was having a really awesome day -- terrible news aside of course.

    I knew that it was a bad idea and made little economic sense. The voice in my head, however, told me that it was a good idea. This voice argued that I'd had a good day on the road, had woken up able to focus (for once), had avoided my psychotic grandmother on my way to breakfast, and had managed to finish mending fences with an ex. In short, it was a persuasive voice. The box I bought contained:

    Mythic Rares:

    1 Frost Titan
    1 Grave Titan
    1 Jace Beleran (mini Jace)
    1 Liliana Vess
    1 Primeval Titan
    1 Time Reversal

    Rares (the ones I'm motivated enough to link anyway):

    1 Day of Judgment
    1 Dragonskull Summit
    1 Fauna Shaman
    1 Sword of Vengeance (foil)
    1 Glacial Fortress
    1 Leyline of Sanctity
    1 Obstinate Baloth
    1 Phylactery Lich
    1 Rootbound Crag
    1 Sunpetal Grove

    Now for the fun part. Box cost in store: 120. Cards listed tally: 178, and I only got three legitimately bad rares in the entire box, so the contents might actually make it to 200 (which means on resale if I hit the low end on each I'd still top what I put in the box). The next question: What to do with these cards.

    EDIT: Nonjon I would rage so hard if I lost to that.
     
    Last edited: Sep 18, 2010
  19. Krogan

    Krogan Alien in a Hat ~ Prestige ~ DLP Supporter

    Joined:
    Dec 8, 2007
    Messages:
    190
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    North Carolina
    High Score:
    2,719
    Ooooo your an evil bastard, you'd even be a succesful evil bastard if it wasn't for the fact that I chalk my deck full of lands like Shimmering Grotto and I have mana generation out the ass:awesome.
     
  20. Skeletaure

    Skeletaure Magical Core Enthusiast ~ Prestige ~ DLP Supporter

    Joined:
    Mar 5, 2006
    Messages:
    2,842
    Location:
    United Kingdom
    High Score:
    13,152
    Why is buying M11 pointless? It doesn't rotate out of standard until October 2011.
     
Loading...