By that argument you could say that Dragon Age and Warhammer share a universe, because the Fade is vaguely similar to the Realm of Chaos. Broad similarities does not a shared universe make.

Oh, and in terms of lore, the Realm of Chaos is a place you can point to on a fucking map. Which you can't with the Fade or the Warp.

Isha's only still alive according to the legends of one Craftworld, and that's as an eternal prisoner being force-fed diseases constantly. Ynnead isn't yet born, and there's no guarantee that the Eldar hail-mary will even work. Vaul hasn't been seen since he got into a fight with Khaine and lost, and probably got eaten with all the other Eldar deities. Khaine's been sundered into tiny little pieces and can only be manifested briefly. And whether the Emperor constitutes and actual Chaos God is arguable as fuck. So yeah, grand total of one free, whole deity.

Meanwhile, in Fantasy, Brettonia, the Empire, the High Elves, the Wood Elves, the Dwarves, the Skaven, the lizardmen, the greenskins and quite a few more civilisations all have their own living pantheons, none of which are connected to the warp.

Nice strawman example. So, my terminology should bow to casual fans who don't know shit about what they're talking about? No. Fuck that and fuck you.

How the hell do you not see the stupidity in listing off all the consequences that you only know because you've played through it and/or read walkthroughs, and then using that as proof that the choices aren't tough? Yeah, no shit there's no tough choices if you know all the consequences in advance. You could say the same of everything, including life. Maybe next time you should play the game before reading a walkthrough.

 

Er, wut, no, THE CHAOS WASTE'S are the area you can point to on a map. IE they are the location where the polar WARP gates were destroyed by the chaos gods to release parts of the CHAOS REALM into the real world. Allow me to point something out for you. http://whfb.lexicanum.com/wiki/Chaos_Wastes http://whfb.lexicanum.com/wiki/Chaos

Note the differences in the first paragraph of each.


Again lulz, u rong.

Er, wha, even if he isn't a god YET, he's technically growing into one, and already competes with the chaos gods as well. There's also the C'Tan if you want to count them.

Debatable, Dwarfs worship ancestor gods, implied to be legendary figures, but not actual gods.(nother connection,)

Greenskins worship Gork and Mork, which are technically gods of chaos. Skaven worship a chaos god as well.

Chaos Dwarfs worship a minor chaos power as well.

So you've got elven gods, IE most of the same ones mentioned in 40k, plus a few others to suit medieval time periods. They also appear to have a faction of other minor chaos god's serving/worshiped by them.

So Bretonnia I'll grant you the Lady of the Lake, but remember, she hasn't really ever been seen. The older gods are more primordial aspects than anything that seems to have any real sentience.

Wood Elves have the same pantheon as the other elves. IE the same one worshiped by the Eldar in 40k, plus the Chaos/underworld gods.

The lizardmen appear to worship the old ones, IE the one's listed in 40k, and the ones who created the polar WARP gates.

So if those count then by all means add the old ones of 40K into the picture as well as the C'Tan and the Emperor.

The primary reason most of them aren't connected to the warp/the realm of chaos, is because allot of them are dead, or DON'T EXIST, or WERE MORTAL.

OK then, be angry.

I have, and if you think about it logically on each of the choices. For the elves it's to commit genocide(killing the elves), to commit genocide(killing the werewolves), to commit genocide(killing both), or to fix a curse. Which do you think I would pick as a good person?

As I said, that isn't a moral choice it's a choice between stupid and smart.

The mages area, it's a choice between killing the mages, and possibly getting the templar's on your side, or saving the mages, and getting the more powerful faction on your side. Again even thinking pragmatically, which choice is more obvious considering you'll be facing ork's/dark spawn and not Templars? Again the choice is to commit genocide, or not commit genocide which is the choice that a normal person would make?

The Arl mission, the kid is possessed, because he didn't have the proper training. Send him to somewhere where you can get him proper training. The lust demon is a chump, and your prestige classes save to your account not to that individual save, so get the class, reload fuck her, then take the idiot child to the mages to be properly trained.

As to you questioning if I played the game, yes I have, multiple times. Assumptions man, guess who they make an ass out of?

 

There's also the massive possibility that a shitload of those mages have become Abominations and you're letting them loose upon the world. At least one has (The one you bring back with you) and thus the choice is "commit genocide, or don't commit genocide, but risk the safety of everyone else."

 

I just read through the Afghanistan thread featuring Cappadocian, and I'm dropping this argument. Arguing with someone who can advocate isolationism and bombing the shit out of the Middle East in the same breath without seeing the hypocrisy is not someone I want to waste my time arguing with, especially since he's STILL using in-game mechanics and hindsight to dictate the 'best' choices in Dragon Age.

 

Isn't the whole point of the game that there are no best choices? And that you just work with what you got?

^This.

I only save the mages because...well they're mages. Templars while useful are just "guys in metal suits" when against anyone that's not a mage. And...well the dwarves kind of have that covered already. Without the lyrium addiction. But that doesn't make killing them all less valid.

(Plus I always assumed with Mages you get Mages + some Templars because well...the templars have to keep them in order, I doubt the Chantry is just going to let them go off on their own while the Templars twiddle their thumbs.)

 

Ah but the templars will be watching, and the tower will likely remain in lock-down for awhile unless you are confirmed clean. At least, that's what common logic would dictate. Those things don't apply to the writers at bioware. Also considering it's implied that the mages who go with you to fight are accompanied by a cadre of templars, if you choose to save them, and don't kill the templars, it's at very least implied to be safe. Somewhat safe at the least. Especially since possession seems rather like a obvious detection when you are a mage and it's implied you can sense the fade just as the fade can sense you.

I also liked the fact that Bioware cut out a potential consequence from that quest if you had taken the blood mage prestige path. Basically Wynne would guess that you were a blood mage and decide to rat you out. If you failed the hard speech check, then you had both the templars, AND the mages attacking you. Those are the consequences that actually matter. As it is, no matte what path you take, you gain the troops needed to fight the dark spawn. Elves dead because you killed them, WELL YOU JUST GOT YOURSELF A BRAND NEW LEGION OF WEREWOLVES. Choose the isolationist king for the dwarfs, DOESN'T MATTER, HERE'S YOUR CADRE OF WARRIORS NOW GET OUT. KILL THE MAGES DON'T WORRY YOU GET TEMPLARS IN BRAND NEW FRESHLY BLOOD STAINED ARMOR. EDIT: @ Sarah, the point about there being no best choice makes no sense when there are no decent consequences either. Sure I mean an NPC or 2 dies, but you still end up with your troops, and you still end up having an ability to beat the dark spawn. Do something like ME2, provided they don't resurrect everyone in ME3 for a hoedown against the reapers.

Also since it's EA, I look forward to Mass Effect Baseball and Dragon Age Golf.

Also Tehen, where in that post did I use hindsight in reference to Dragon Age?

In terms of moral's saving the kid without killing his mother is the best choice. Getting him training is the best choice. GAMEPLAY WISE, getting the class is the better choice. But morally it's not at all a tough or dissonant choice at all. Kill a kid or kill his mother or kill Jowan his tutor up until this point, to save him temporarily. The moral choice even in foresight will ALWAYS be not to kill.

Also, that wasn't at all the same breath. It was making a point of the fact that there are two ways to fix the middle east problem. Destroying them quickly and bloodily with hopefully few civilian casualties, or slowly while they watch their economies degrade to the point where they can't support themselves. In both cases you'd have to seize control of the power vacuum to get someone less crazy in power. Also, there's pretty much never going to be peace while Israel exists as a country. I hate to tell you that, both sides are too angry, and think they themselves are in the right and so the cycle will continue indefinitely until someone strikes, then the world isn't going to like the consequences.

As I said in the thread, that most people seem to be ignoring for favor of jibes regarding my intelligence, I was for bombing the shit out of the actual instigators when the 2 towers came down. I was for bombing the shit out of them when Osama came on TV and claimed responsibility. I am for isolation, NOW, because it's the smart move, we've wasted to much money and lives targeting idiotic targets down then. We need to stop, put the billion or so in funds going towards troops every month an a twelfth into something useful, then think about how we can conquer/bring peace to the most fractious area on the planet. Because as it is, all we're really doing is stirring up tensions.

 

I read the last little bit, and was really, really saddened about my life that I was about to follow most of what you two were talking about.

I went and got myself a drink, and all's well.

And I just watched the gameplay video. Jesus fuck, they've ruined it. It's goddamned Lord of the Rings Conquest, or that old DnD action adventure game. I'll download it, but I'm sure as fuck not supporting this bullshit. Fucking consolification is ruining perfectly good games.

Need moar drink.

 

This one http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Forgotten_Realms:_Demon_Stone or this one http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Baldur's_Gate:_Dark_Alliance

 

And yet, despite the Templars watching and supposedly locking it down, a certain abomination named Wynn got out.

 

Was it this one?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UK5Tee4x8cE&translated=1

...Because yeah....that looks more like a JRPG than a WRPG

And to think BW was slamming on Square *sighs*

And what's with the graphics? I'm not usually a graphics whore but that looks worse than DA:O

 

*Just read her wiki page* So Wynne has a connection plotwise to Auran? AHAHAHAHAHAHA, yeah, I could see that being done. Never took Wynne to completetion, she got annoying after a short while, so much so that I killed her on most playthroughs. Hell my last 2 plays were solo games, where I ran through with two different build with only myself. That actually gave allot of challenge. If you're bored with the easy combat once you get used to hardcore mode, try it.

It may have been the chaos of the plot in the mages tower that let her get out. It may be that she's not actually possessed yet, but that she bartered her body and magic, eventually, to the demon for it to save her. If she actually elaborates on it, lemme know. Because Mages are so connected to the fade it could be explained as any number of things. Doesn't have to be possession, which is what an abomination is, IE a demon taking full control of a host. Timmy wasn't even an Abom yet, he was just a human being influenced by a demon.

 

Demon Stone

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Oddly enough I remember the graphics being a lot better. That Dark Alliance game was an abomination itself though.

And goddamnit you guys just spoiled the mage bitch for me =/

 

Wait what?

I thought Wynne wasn't being possessed but rather a benevolent Fade Spirit was giving her its life force.

an abomination is someone completely taken over by the demon. That's not the case with Wynne.

 

True, could be so. Fade spirits aren't all that benevolent though, and you rarely, if ever, run into one. Hmm, so many possibilities.

So let's list them.

Good Faerie, helping out because Wynne is a good soul.
Bad Faerie, helping out because when offers her soul and body when she dies.
Bad Faerie, attempting to take control of wynne and failing due to her skill in keeping it suppressed.
Good Faerie, taking offense to the promulgation of Bad Faeries there. Recognizing Wynne as someone who can help.
Bad Faerie, taking a stronger body on, offering to save her life in return.
Good Faerie deciding to interfere for the hell of it.
Good Faerie summoned by Wynne using her spirit manipulation/healing skill.
Good Faerie acting as guardian angel to Wynne.

As it is, we only have one reference to good Fade spirits, at least in the non-DLC game, that of the spirits of valor when rescuing Timmy.

 

Hm...I'm inclined to believe its true based off the fact that every other abomination in game attempts to kill you.

 

True, cept, you know, Flemeth, who pisses you off by being cryptic and eats her young, but doesn't really harm you or fly into a murderous rage, in fact it takes direct confrontation to kill her, and the fight is avoidable.

 

Hey, how about you play the game before making retarded declarations? Flemeth isn't an abomination. Morrigan states it outright.

 

Morrigan is also evil, and was raised to be eaten by Flemeth, so why are you taking her word for it? Morrigan actually addresses the issue as far as I know as, "Flemeth is not a Blood Mage, is not an abomination, and is not entirely human."

EDIT: Also Morrigan say's that in the Witch Hunt DLC. As far as she say's in the main campaign, she has a bond with a demon, or is possessed by it.

As far as I care, her lore, and the stories regarding her, address her as someone in a symbiotic relationship, or possessed by a demon. Possibly even a demon herself.

So much so, that the knowledge about Flemeth the mages had, wasn't given by the mages to the chantry to be burned, it was under the protection of Irvine himself, kept locked in a chest, and probably never even looked at funny or any other way.

 

Flemeth's not an abomination.

Frankly the whole Dragon thing has me thinking she might be closely related to the old gods.

 

As it is right now, I'm thinking she's more like the Baroness, crossed with Justice maybe. A spirit/demon that managed to force it's way out of the fade into reality, possibly one that goes through in a parasitic form.

In which case she is a form Abomination. The lore within the game seems to point to this.

IE Morrigan's comments on how she thinks Flemeth is an abomination or a demon. Add in the comment on how she is something more than an abomination but not entirely human during the Morrigan DLC.

Granted Morrigan can't be trusted at all. And it's possible the baby is just some way of creating something on par with the demon that is Flemeth.

In those term's I guess she could be an old god. Doesn't really make sense, though, but wouldn't put it past Gaider to add something that kudzu to it. If that's true, though, why does she need to keep hopping bodies, the old ones are supposed to be immune until they are found by the dark spawn and corrupted(and by immune I mean sleeping)? Also aren't there only seven, with 2 unaccounted for the other 5 dead from blights present and past? Also, also, when they are awake don't they call to the darkspawn?

Fucking hell. I'd rather say she's just an Abom, less plot holes that way.