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Book 12 [Warning Massive Spoilers by Douches are now in play]

Discussion in 'Fanfic Discussion' started by Ryuugi Shi, May 17, 2009.

  1. Koalas

    Koalas First Year ~ Prestige ~ DLP Supporter

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    Is this something from Changes or Small Favor? Cause I can't remember anything like that being said (though it could just be Dreden's belief in Murphy's Law Howdy).

    He's in trouble now yes. Up till now though he's been basically unopposed. So awesome field experience to a loyal Knight. Reuel wasn't mentioned to be anything 'special' but Slate wasn't willing to take him head on. Going with that Knight powers are a lot like magic, experience and control over raw strength.
     
  2. Ragon

    Ragon Dark Lord

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    In Changes Harry tells Mab if she deosnt help him he can always call on the coin and get Nicodemus to help him or use the darkhallow to get the power he needs.
     
  3. Howdy

    Howdy Dark Lord

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    Fix tells Harry that he would indeed be fucked if Harry took up Mab's offer in one of the recent books, so I don't really expect for him to have any significant tricks up his sleeves. In fact, I think that Harry and Thomas could have easily killed him at that point if they'd felt inclined to do so.

    Harry mentions Nicodemus at least twice in Changes, once when he's stalking through the halls of Edinburgh on his way to confront Ortega and again when he speaks to Mab.

    He seems very confident that Nicodemus is alive and well, despite having "killed" him.
     
  4. Ched

    Ched Da Trek Moderator DLP Supporter ⭐⭐

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    I didn't pick up on the vibe that Nick was definitely still alive, but I didn't think he was conclusively dead either. In my mind it has been up in the air, but next time I have a look I'll check for the scenes you mention. Could also be that Harry is saying/thinking "Nicodemus" when he really means "Anduriel" even if it's not likely.

    Michael's recovery from his injuries and his life after that is covered pretty well in the short story Warrior. It's glossed over in the books because it's not convenient to find a way of showing us there I guess.

    Harry vs. Fix will probably happen at some point, assuming Harry continues as the WK after his death, and I am pretty sure Harry will have a solid upper hand. There's a decent chance Fix took the initiative and just shot him anyway, though there's so many other possibilities as well. I also wouldn't be surprised if Harry makes it a point to continue trying to be friends with Fix, if only as a way of exercising his Free Will because he can. That will of course cease to matter once a Court related matter forces his hand.
     
  5. Iztiak

    Iztiak Prisoner DLP Supporter

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    I doubt he will. At least that's my hope.

    It's mentioned that the mantle of the knight passes on to the nearest vessel after death... So if Harry really died, it's doubtful that power/title will return with him.

    I imagine that getting out of the deal by dying would probably piss Mab off though, so he wouldn't get out of the consequences altogether.

    Assuming that he actually gets out of being the knight, of course.
     
  6. Shinysavage

    Shinysavage Madman With A Box ~ Prestige ~

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    I've recently re-read most of the series, and the impression I was left with was that Harry knew he hadn't quite finished killing Nicodemus when he pushed him off the boat. It's been a couple of weeks, and I've read a lot of other stuff since then, but that would be my answer.

    On another topic (and this may well have already been mentioned, but I don't have the time to go back through however many pages of theorising), Harry's death.

    Shot at a distance, in the aftermath of a massive attack on the Red Court.

    Summer Knight - Harry is persistently attacked by Ash, one of Lily and Fix's changeling friends, who goes to the Red Court for protection from Maeve and Slate. Specifically, he uses a sniper rifle to try and take Harry out. He survives the book, and hasn't been heard of since, as far as I'm aware.
     
  7. LittleChicago

    LittleChicago Headmaster DLP Supporter

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    And, given that Butcher has said - repeatedly - that he's a lazy writer and doesn't include anything that isn't important, and Ace having played a rather minor role in Summer Knight, you might be on to something.
     
  8. Ragon

    Ragon Dark Lord

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    That or its the obvious possibility of Kincaid, who Harry knows would attempt to kill him like this.
     
    Last edited: Nov 13, 2010
  9. Howdy

    Howdy Dark Lord

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    Yeah, but Kincaid doesn't have a reason to kill Harry when about a billion other people do. Ivy might not like it, after all.
     
  10. fuubar

    fuubar Headmaster

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    On the whole Nicodemus thing. JB has said that he is alive and is scared of Harry. I'll look and find the link here in a bit, I'm sure that it was mentioned in the Word of God thread.

    As for how Harry knows in story I see a couple of different ways:

    1. No body? He's not dead, not after having survived for a couple thousand years.
    2. He's gotten word from some of his contacts somewhere that Nicodemus lived.

    I'm guessing that Harry is just going with number 1 because with someone like Nicodemus it's just a safe bet.
     
  11. Khazad-Dumb

    Khazad-Dumb Loves the Gay Porn DLP Supporter

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    I'm leaning towards Marcone personally.

    In Even Hand, we learn that Marcone has developed a Magic Piercing Bullet, and that he tested it so that he could use it [just in case] on Dresden. He definitely has the Opportunity and the Ability to do so, the Motive being the only thing that's lacking.
     
  12. Swimdraconian

    Swimdraconian Denarii Host DLP Supporter

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    I think Marcone is too obvious, much like Kincaid. Butcher likes pulling the rug out from under us too much to go for either of those characters as the sniper.
     
  13. Tylendel

    Tylendel Seventh Year

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    I agree with Swimdraconian and

    After reading Aftermath, it becomes clear that it's not Marcone that killed Harry. He gain much more with Harry being alive then dead.
     
  14. Seratin

    Seratin Proudmander –§ Prestigious §– DLP Supporter

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    I suspect Murphy's secret gangster alter-ego, brought on by the psychic trauma she recieved in Grave Peril.
     
  15. Aekiel

    Aekiel Angle of Mispeling ~ Prestige ~ DLP Supporter

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    I suspect Lara. Think of it, with the Red Court out of the picture Dresden and Marcone were the only ones stopping her from taking Chicago for her own, and Dresden the only one stopping her from going after the rest of the East Coast. Even if they were only nominally under his jurisdiction, the rest of the Wardens in Dresden's region are nowhere near the level necessary to battle the White Court, especially since they don't know that Lara is the de facto White Queen.

    As well as that, Thomas' allegiances have been brought in to question multiple times, to the point where I'm unsure whether he sees Harry as anything other than food. It's exactly the sort of thing a dedicated White Court vampire would do, especially since they're now the primary direct threat in Harry's eyes.
     
  16. Howdy

    Howdy Dark Lord

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    No way. Lara has wanted to mindfuck Harry ever since she figured out that he had been getting it on with Luccio. No reason to kill him, even if she had figured out he was the new Winter Knight, though how that's possible I have no idea.
     
  17. Random Shinobi

    Random Shinobi Unspeakable DLP Supporter

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    Of course she knows, how couldn't she? Considering how Mab "broadcasted" Harry's "knighting" every single Winter fae knows he's the new Winter Knight, and the White Court is bound to have at least a few contacts in the Winter Court.
     
  18. Ragon

    Ragon Dark Lord

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    Odds are it has to be someone with a powerful backing. Mab has wanted Harry as Knight for over a decade. Seeing as how te mantle passes when the knight is killed, I dont see Mab being exactly thrilled with this. Lara and Marcone are too smart to risk pissing off someone like Mab.
     
  19. LittleChicago

    LittleChicago Headmaster DLP Supporter

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    Or, Butcher could through the ultimate mind-fuck at us all, and it'll turn out to be Mab who's responsible, because having Harry "sort-of" dead will bind him to her more strongly, or some shit like that.

    Personally, my money's back on Ace, which will cause great amounts of confusion and pain for Lily and Fix if they're involved.
     
  20. Howdy

    Howdy Dark Lord

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    Nobody at all thinks it could be Black Council?
     
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