Hng. Interesting, but I don't see why you have to do a canon rehash - just the end concept is enough to make a good fic, you can have conflict outside of self-hatred, too.

 

Well, the purpose of keeping the story close to canon would be to throw the readers off. Because the story was meant to be fast paced and not too thoroughly detailed right until the end, readers would be less likely to guess the twist.

 

I think so.

 

I always thought the idea of Dumbledore wanting to kill Harry could be an interesting plot twist, but every story I've seen that tried it has sucked. I think the problem is that the only way for Harry to possibly survive Dumbledore turning on him is by nerfing Dumbledore and/or ludicrously overpowering Harry. But how about the following plot bunny?

Hardcore Dumbledore: Dumbledore takes one look at Harry and figures out he's a horcrux, and that the only way it could have happened was if Voldemort had already split his soul. Dumbledore then does the logical thing, hides Harry away and takes some time off to go horcrux hunting. For the next ten years, Dumbledore pushes himself to his absolute limit and does some things that he never would have thought himself capable of (the damage to Slughorn and Lucius Malfoy alone...). Finally, the other horcruxes are gone and it's time to deal with Harry. When he started his quest he had hoped to research a safe way to remove the horcrux from Harry and let the boy live a normal life. After putting himself through ten years of hell, though, he's ready to finish Voldemort off once and for all by any means necessary.

My concern is that this is going to tend to turn Dumbledore into a generic bad guy, and it's still going to take some kind of crazy power up to keep Harry alive.

Maybe what happens next is that Dumbledore gets his old job back as headmaster and starts looking for a way to get rid of the horcrux. Thanks to his more proactive stance on Voldemort Harry's school years are relatively uneventful. Meanwhile, thanks to the destruction of the other horcruxes, the bit of Voldemort stuck in Harry's head is a little more active. None of that "Riddle riding shotgun and chatting with Harry" kind of bullshit, more that Harry has a gut instinct that never steers him wrong when he's performing difficult magic or evaluating (read: manipulating) people, and that instinct is screaming at him not to trust Dumbledore.

Starting in Harry's fourth year Dumbledore gives up on saving him (in part based on the eerie parallels to young Riddle) and starts implementing reasonably deniable plans to kill Harry, such as entering him in the Tri-Wizard Tournament. I'm not sure exactly where you'd go from there.

 

The problem is still there about the skill difference. I can't help feeling that if Dumbledore wanted Harry dead, he'd be dead in a week and nobody would even think of blaming Dumbledore for it.

 

Well if you wanted to be a realist, this is exactly what a true military commander would do. They wouldn't hesitate to kill Harry, if it meant that hundreds if not thousands of lives could be saved.

Sure Dumbledore was manipulative in the books but he was a good person. He manipulated the odds so that Harry would be able to live and have a future. Voldemort played into the hands of the prophecy without knowing by using Harry's blood in his resurrection ceremony, which anchored Harry to life, kind of like a reverse Horcrux really.

Of course that doesn't remove all the innocents who died because Dumbledore cared more about saving Harry, than saving them. The whole prophecy was half real/half cock and bull. After the Horcruxes were destroyed, anybody who would have been able to land a curse on ol' Tom would have been able to kill him.

 

This would be an interesting premise for a story really. Dumbledore finds out the prophecy, and after he tries to avert it, is forced to come to the conclusion that there isn't anything he can do directly against Riddle, for reasons X, Y, and Z. So the prophecy goes off, Harry becomes the Chosen One, and is sent to live with his muggle family. Dumbledore does the only thing he can: stack the deck in Harry's favor as heavily as he can. You could follow Dumbledore and his henchmen as they attempt to have power for Harry to grasp lurking behind every tree, under every stone, and in every shadow.

Another way you could run with the premise of Good!Manipulative!Dumbledore would be for Harry to pull a traditional Indy!Harry hissy fit of epic proportions, and he trains for a week to kill Dumbledore, only to realize that there's no way Harry can even hope to compare as a duelist. He then dupes Dobby to coat Albus' silverware with a time-delayed posion, possibly stolen from Snape and/or Malfoy. Bonus points if Harry manages to frame them and get them sent to Azkaban.

The reason Harry isn't discovered: Why would Dumbledore suspect anything? A fourteen year old boy isn't much of a threat to someone of Albus' level. Albus is busier dealing with all of his shadow games than watching Harry's ass like a pedophile. He'd be completely blindsided when he quite suddenly ends up eating a forkful of poison.

Albus keels over, dead, and through one of his many back-up plans (possibly in his will) Harry ends up with Albus' diary. Then Harry Potter gets a real dose of reality, finding out exactly what happened, why it happened, and that his mortal enemy may very well have been his staunchest ally. Harry has to fill the impressive (and somewhat gaudy) shoes of arguably the single most powerful man in the entire Harry Potter canon.

 

Sounds like a story.

 

Voldemort is often called on the most intelligent and powerful wizard to ever live, despite being several decades younger than Dumbledore. How did this happen?

During Voldemort's youth, he liked to collect artifacts once owned by the founders. These artifacts are very powerful, of the likes which modern wizards have been hard pressed to replicate. The sword of Godric Gryffindor is rumored to be able to take on the properties of any magical substance it touches. The goblet of Helga Hufflepuff is rumored to be able to replicate whatever substance it contains in an infinite amount, bending all modern laws of transfiguration. The locket of Slytherin is rumored to make to wearer completely immune to poison and mental suggestion.

He even went so far as to convince the ghost of Helena Ravenclaw to tell him where the Diadem of Rowena is. He discovered it in Albania. Curious about the legendary power of the Diadem, he tried it on. What he gained was centuries worth of knowledge, compiled by the most intelligent witch to ever live; Rowena Ravenclaw. Knowledge of the likes which very few know, and much of which has been lost to the ages.

In Harry Potter's sixth year, he takes a keen interest in making himself better. The phophecy, Sirius's death, Snape's potion book. When disposing of the book in the room of requirement, he discovers the diadem. A voice calls out to him, telling him to put it on. So he does, and he gains all the knowledge that Voldemort had gained.

He gained knowledge, and lots of it, but how to use it would take practice. He gained the knowledge of how to implement the meager amount of Occlumency he had learned from Snape. He gains the ability to protect himself from mental suggestion of the Diadem's horcrux. He learned of the meaning of wand motions, and of potion components, and how to cast silently, conjure metals, and cast enchantments.

He gains knowledge of old spells, of dark spells, of dangerous spells. Of fiendfyre, of nightmare inducing charms, of entrails expelling hex, of the withering jinx. Of how to kill efficiently. Of how to destroy a persons magic and make them into a squib. He gains knowledge on how to win this war, and he is desperate enough to use it.

 

A rather more plausible plot device than most to create Super!Harry, but still a plot device to create Super!Harry nonetheless. This might work if Harry still isn't on the level of Voldemort -which, logically, he shouldn't be, but then I can't see how you get around it becoming a time-turner training-fest, or something similar. Surprise attack, hoping for the best?

 

Harry's not on the level on Voldemort, and never will be. Voldemort has 50 years on him, as well all know. Harry goes to Kame's Lookout to use the hyperbolic time chamber (not really). I'm not a fan of time turner training, because frankly it is very boring to write, and even more boring to read.

Harry's greatest weapon is surprise. All the information that Voldemort has on Harry (coming from people like Snape and Draco) say that he is merely adequate in most subjects, and extraordinarily lucky. Voldemort is unprepared for Harry's sudden knowledge, and he severely underestimates him (which is pretty much canon). Voldemort uses spells on Harry that he expects to finish him, but somehow Harry knows the counter. This frustrates Voldemort to no end, slowly making him angry and acting severely irregularly. Harry has always been the best at defense, so that is what he does. Harry cannot attack and defend, because Voldemort is much more skilled and faster, so Harry goes pure defensive until Voldemort makes a mistake in a fit of anger. The best offense is a good defense after all.

 

No. The best offense is being able to kill the other guy before he can do anything to you. In your example, this only works until the Death Eaters gang up on Harry, surround him, layer in some portkey and apparition wards, and go to town. Even if you include Harry's little posse, there are more Death Eaters than DA members. Honestly, I think mailing Voldemort Neville's potions experiments might be a more feasible strategy.

If I were in Harry's shoes in that situation, I'd be trying to hobble Voldemort's war efforts rather than directly confront him directly. Buy off corrupt officials, screw up supplies, sabotage the DE's wands- destroy the logistic side of Voldemort's plans.

I have no idea how you would approach that in a world with HP magic, but Harry would, especially with the Diadem's brain boost.

 

Seriously, ^this. I'm reminded of a fic where D'dore is talking to Fudge and Fudge accuses D'dore of wanting to kill him. D'dore replies something to the effect of, "My dear Cornelius, if I wanted you dead, you would merely one day disappear, and no one would ever find the slightest trace of you."

Dumbledore is the very definition of a "bawse". Voldemort - a bad ass of whom people were so scared shitless that most wouldn't say his name more than ten years after he was believed dead - was afraid of Dumbledore. Yeah.

 

Perhaps Dumbledore's link to Fawkes prevents him from directly killing anyone or ordering anyone else to do the job. What he can do is place people in situations where they might be killed or even manipulate others into doing the dirty work as long as he doesn't order the hit. This limitation would allow a completely evil Dumbledore who is forced to use indirect means of getting rid of his problems.

 

What the hell does a phoenix have to do with anything?

 

I think that if a phoenix has such a bond with somebody that they'd know if they directly killed somebody, they would be able to sense intentions for such as well. Seriously, Evil!Dumbledore with phoenix just doesn't work.

 

Uhh... what? Since when is there canon proof that there is such a thing like a "phoenix bond", or that a wizard who 'bonds' with a phoenix is automatically the incarnation of good?

 

It's seen as a symbol of light, I guess, but it's like the flipside of Parselmouths; just because Voldemort was one, people were giving Harry dodgy looks during his second year.

 

No, it's not. No-one has ever said (or even implied, as far as I recall) that phoenixes are some kind of symbol of light. Especially since "light" is a concept created by fanon. There are only two known phoenixes in canon: Fawkes and Sparky which is a mascot for a quidditch team.

 

Except for this:

Sounds like a "light" creature to me. <-- fuck, how I hate that "light" and "light-sided" shit. It just sounds incredibly stupid, but what's the alternative? "Good"? Yeesh.

And according to PS, there was another phoenix feather wand that Harry tried, although it didn't work for him. Since Fawkes' only two contributions are accounted for, either Sparky or some other phoenix donated at least one feather.