I agree on the whole #there is no light/dark creatures" -issue. I mean if it were so, that phoenixes and unicorns were completely of light (aka to every fiber of their being), then no wand using their hairs or feathers as a core material could be used for evil purposes or dark magic. The wands would probably implode if someone attempted to cast say cruciatus on such a wand.

Personally I would like to see stories focus a bit more on Harry's academics. The canon shows him as always slacking off or running to Hermione when ever he needs help on a subject. Would it really be so bad for him to actually be good with for example charms (my personal preference)? Charms simply seems more useful compared to transfiguration considering that even most hexes and curses seem to be charms -based.

Sure Hermione is smart and all, but considering how interested Harry was of learning magic, he hardly puts any effort into it unless it is absolutely necessary. When it comes to learning in the books there are only two instances when he really showed any real initiative; The Patronus -charm and all the stuff from Snape's potion book.

Though I think it ties to one of my pet-peeves about people being afraid to change Harry's wand (Though not definitely necessary as Harry's wand and in connection his magic was not shown to have a particular preference to a subject, so he should be able to do well in any subject). I mean if you change things so that there is no connection between the wands it actually allows more room to change how things go. I mean it would be nice to see Harry actually escape from the graveyard due to his own quick thinking and luck rather than the priori -plot device and the shadows of his parents.

 

lolwut. Where did you pull that assumption out of? Your ass?

 

It has to do with the whole "Light Creatures hating evil/darkness and even being harmful to it " -aspect that was discussed in the previous page. I mean if a phoenix or a unicorn was completely of the light to the point where they were the absolute bane of everything dark being tied to their very being, then it just wouldn't be plausible to use anything from them for evil purposes even when their tails or hairs were used in wands.

A fully light being, even remnants of one would react badly to anything dark, but it is shown in the books that that is not the case. HP -magic doesn't seem to care about good or evil or light or dark. Those are human concepts. The things it responds to are intent and willpower aka what you want it to do and if you have a strong and smart enough mind to make it happen.

 

There is literally nothing in canon to state that a wand with a unicorn hair for a core would explode when using an unforgiveable. Stating that a unicorn would have to have some shred of "darkness" in it to make using dark curses possible with a Unicorn hair wand is going full retard.

 

Voldemort's wand is a phoenix feather, and thats the end to that.

 

True. I was merely pointing out that Fawkes came of his own accord and wasn't sent by Dumbledore as addictedforlife maintained, and that Fawkes is in some way empathetic or telepathic. As for the phoenix bonds shit; fuck that.

^This

No. Did you never learn logical reasoning. Just because a creature itself won't tolerate 'Darkness' in no way restricts you from using it's parts for 'Dark' purposes. The animal itself could conceivably have a conscious hate for the 'Dark'. An inanimate hair cannot. That's like saying a soldier would be incapable of using a donor liver because the donor was a pacifist who despised war. In other words it's fucking stupid

Again this is a moronic assumption with no logical basis. And in fact you're just wrong. In some cases the remnants of a 'light being' do react horribly with 'dark things'. See PS where Hagrid tells of the horrible curse suffered by those who consume unicorn blood.

You forgot the part of your dissertation where you remind us that you can kill with the levitation spell if that's your intent. Oh and how you can use the Cruciatus for healing purposes and the AK is for mercy killings so there really isn't any dark magic.:facepalm

Fuck that. There is in fact good and evil in HP and it's reflected in the magic system. Horcruxes. Nuff said.

 

I'd like to point out that HBP was full of shit.

Edit: But I do agree with you.

 

"You must have shown me real loyalty down in the Chamber. Nothing but that could have called Fawkes to you." (332, CoS )

EDIT: Sesc beat me to it, but I just wanted to repeat to emphasise that I'm never wrong.

 

I'm not even sure I'd argue that making a Horcrux is "wrong", in any objective sense. You are sacrificing some limited x years of another person's life to extend your life theoretically forever. All other things being equal, it is a net gain in aggregate lifespan. yadayada... offtopic.

 

I was going to write a reply, but then I didn't.
In closing, pic related.

 

I thought of an alternative to the phoenix preventing Dumbledore from killing. He could have felt so guilty over his sister's death that he swore a magically binding oath never again to kill another human. He later regretted this but can't break the oath without losing his magic. He eventually discovered that could get around this limitation by using indirect means. That's why he needs Harry to get rid of Riddle.

 

No. No no no no no.

Is everyone forgetting JKR's whole "prophecy" thing, wherein it's Harry's destiny to face Riddle in the end? Dumbledore knew it wasn't his fight, and that his role was to help Harry with the tools necessary, and by tools, it was clear to him that "fighting skillz" would never cut it, that Harry already had the tools he needed.

If I'm honest, the series worked out remarkably well as a morality tale, parable, what-have-you. Voldemort represents paranoia, secretiveness, cruelty, sociopathy, etc. while Harry represents fairness, courage, duty, friendship, and most importantly, love.

No matter how much Harry trained, he'd never get to the level of skill, prowess, etc. and sheer ruthlessness Voldemort possessed. Dumbledore saw this plainly as well. What Harry had in spades, though, was his ability to make people (a) feel good about themselves, (b) want to believe in him, (c) feel a part of something, etc.

He'd never have gotten all the Horcruxes without others wanting to help him, as seen by Neville killing Nagini, Ron returning and stabbing the locket, Ron and Hermione going into the Chamber for fangs, Narcissa lying for him, and on and on. It typifies that whole teamwork and community concept, and it was all because Harry was a good person who tried to be fair to everyone, even Peter and the Malfoys at the end.

Sure, it makes for a serious letdown in that we all wanted Harry to grow a bigger pair and kick some ass, but Rowling wanted the Christ-like sacrifice angle to hit you over the head, and that's what she wrote. It worked on that level, but I still wish there'd been more from Harry.

/rambling

 

... I kinda think we lost track of the original argument. Which was that there are no 'Phoenix Bonds'. Which nobody who just argued against me (Tenages, enembee who is always right, etc) thinks to exist, either.

I never said that phoenixes (in this case, Fawkes) aren't magical, or that they don't have obscure abilities. Regarding the Chamber scene, I said that there was a possibility that it might have been Dumbledore's actions that led to Fawkes appearance (which has been ruled out). All I was trying to do was to argue that the idea of 'Phoenix Bonds', and anything that goes with it, should burn.:backpedal

 

I'm personally of the opinion that to Dumbledore the prophecy was worth diddlysquat. It was never a case of destiny, it was a case of the choices he knew Harry would face and the decisions he'd make.

Completely agree with you on this. Fawkes is clearly a very magical creature but I don't believe there's such a thing as a soul bond, it's repeatedly said by Dumbledore that the interaction between Harry and Voldemort's soul goes further than anyone else has ever gone.

 

Well, I agree in that Dumbledore didn't place much stock in prophecy, and he said as much in talking to Harry about how (a) Harry would have wanted to fight Voldemort, prophecy or not, and (b) that the prophecy was only really relevant because Voldemort believed it and would continue to act with it in mind.

That said, it's kind of a chicken-and-egg thing, because Dumbledore knew that Harry was a Horcrux by that point (or at least had a very good hunch) and that Harry's only slim chance at survival was to willingly eat Voldemort's Killing Curse, even though he had no idea about the Elder Wand playing a role. He knew that Riddle would force the issue as some point, and he also knew that his role was becoming defined as a sort of sacrifice as well, to keep Snape in high standing (and to some extent, to save Draco Malfoy's soul).

It's complicated, and yes, Dumbledore didn't place any stock in prophecy, but as Voldemort did, it didn't really matter what he himself thought, because it was going to play a role anyway. Also, Dumbledore stated that many prophecies never came to pass, and most were understood only after the events took place. Which is what happened with this one as well...

 

Indy!Harry says: Moar of Teh manipulations of Dumbledore! Rebel, rebel, rebel!

Or Fawkes, being of at least human level intelligence, a magical creature of some power, and/or having one of his butt feathers in Harry's wand, sensed the young hero's need for him and used his magical powers to aid the champion.

Bottom line: 16 year old Riddle is the echo of an ego-maniacal, amoral psychopath who thinks he's fighting a war against Dumbledore. He believes what he wants. We have no clue why DeusExMachina!Fawkes shows up, and thus we can fill in the blank as needed.

 

Well, it's a bit hard to quantify a 'bond' that a phoenix has with a witch or wizard, but there has to be some telepathic ability there. Remember, in CoS, Dumbledore told Harry that it was his loyalty to Dumbledore that called Fawkes to him. Meaning that Fawkes's actions were independent of Dumbledore's will.

And it's doubtful that Dumbledore would send Fawkes with the Sorting Hat when it's been proven that Fawkes can take Dumbledore himself. I don't know if Dumbledore really was a manipulative bastard in early canon, but I doubt he'd let Harry fight a basilisk by himself.

So, we can assume that despite the fact that Fawkes and Harry had little interaction, Fawkes was still able to sense his 'loyalty'. There shouldn't be a 'bond' between the two, so it just leaves us at the assumption that phoenixes have a telepathic ability of some sort.

But in the end, the real reason why everything is messed up is because Rowling had no idea about the massive, gaping plot-holes that were in her story.

 

Yes. Yes, but it's the sheer number of plot holes that gives Harry Potter fanfiction all of the material for new plots, new paths, new spells, new uses for spells, and so on and so forth. Harry Potter is impressive because when Rowling began to realize just how sieve-like her stories actually were, she tried to fill them up with more plot holes. This gives it a weird authenticity because nothing makes any sense.

 

No, HBP wasn't just full of shit - it was shit.