Well, the other possibility is that only an archangel Vessel can kill an angel.

 

You missed the question.

So, the question is that if a demon got an Angel sword, will he be able to safely use it.

 

i'm confused.

If a Host carrying an Angel gets Stabbed. Does the Angel Actually die or get sent to Heaven. The Same way a Demon gets sent to Hell? I thought the only sure fire way to kill anything was to use the Colt and even that has the limit of 5 things it just can't kill.

 

Couple of things I noticed when reading through:

There's still plenty of archangels about, just not famous ones (A archangel for every prophet comes to mind).

You guys are assuming a bit much about the Adam plot here. He was a willing Vessel to Michael. Don't think Michael's going to torture him from sheer boredom, since that really wasn't what Michael was ever about. And I don't think Lucifer would be allowed to deal with Adam.


On top of that, Lucifer is without body in a all powerful cage right now. It's never really explained how that changes anything in the cage but you can safely make a few guesses there.

Lucifer and Michael had real reason to torture Sam's soul. They don't with Adam. And even Lucifer isn't all about torture, that was always more his minions who reveled in it.

Also, we're making assumptions on God's power base. He didn't make Death, Death says so himself. There may be other powers with the same capability, we just haven't seen it yet. God may be Omni. But Death said he'll Reap God when the time comes, so maybe it's different in the Supernatural world.

In fact, on the Death angle, I don't think we're done. I see him playing a heavy role in helping the Winchesters next season. If not him, then God will be stepping in and making an appearance.


As far as the season finale, I love the depth of the plot and setting up for next season (Sam going slowly nuts, Castiel as a villain) but I thought it was rushed and I actually dislike the idea of Castiel in the villain role. He played his guardian angel role so well so I'm on the fence about them completely revamping him. I'm sure he'll do a solid job, I'm just not sold on it yet.

 

I don't think Cas will be completely remade as a villain, I see this as Cast trying to protect Sam and Dean and the human race as much as he can and going too far with it. Through the series it has been obvious that Cas is not selfish and he obviously loves Dean (maybe not Sam though) and wants to keep him as his friend and he appreciates the human race for what it is.

I think this is Cas taking the guardian angel thing too far rather than Cas getting too prideful and arrogant.

 

The angel dies. That's what the scorched-wing-on-the-pavement effect means.

Jimmy Novak has not appeared as a character since Cas died protecting Chuck. I don't remember it being explicitly stated, but I've assumed that Jimmy died then, and either went to his Reward or was completely destroyed.

 

Also, about this whole angel killing thing, do you guys not remember the episode, earlier this season, when they infiltrate Crowley's compound (ep. 11?) where Meg takes Cas' sword and uses it to hold off hellhounds? I think its been pretty well established that it is the swords, and only the swords, that kill angels, regardless of the users status.

For the archs, a regular sword won't cut it, but another archangel sword will. I thought the show made this stuff pretty clear.

 

The Angel dies, that's what the whole burned wing marks signify and the demons do die if they get stabbed with the knife. I'm not sure where your getting the sent to hell thing from, the only thing at all that simply sends demons back to hell is an exorcism, everything else flat out permanently kills them. It works the same for angels as well, the only thing that sends them back to heaven is the exorcism rite Alistair was going to use on Castiel.

 

I think what I was thinking of was a mix of the Exorcism rules from the earlier seasons when the hunters would actually try to save the hosts...

And when Sam had his demon powers and jumped from Exorcising to Killing demons. I think it was said in such a way that I assumed it was unheard of to kill a demon, before.

 

They don't really care about saving any demonic hosts now, which is kinda sad.

 

No it's fucking annoying, especially when Sam goes as far as to kill the demon inhabiting his childhood friend in S5. I mean, what the fuck? Never mind there was an innocent person in there just y'know... kill him. Especially when it was implied that there was a fate worse than death waiting for him.

 

Need to remember that demons have flat out said most of their hosts are ridden to the point of death anyway.

Add the knowledge that the knife destroys the demon and weigh those against potential to do harm versus good and it's really not as bad of a decision as you think.

Or would you rather them exorcise every demon only to pick a new host and ride it to death before Sam/Dean run into them again?


Sorry, I'll take their no-apologies killing of demons any day.

 

Did they? I think what they said was that the demons keep previously life-threatening wounds from killing the host. Granted Crowley had used Brady's head as a pinata but who knows whether he could have survived if he had been dragged to a hospital?

Yeah except this demon would be sent to Hell. Y'know Hell, Lucifer's home turf. And as it was stated in the episode Death is Lucifer's bitch. Brady himself said that Lucifer wouldn't kill him or Crowley- or at least permanently, he would keep reviving them and torturing them over and over again.

So two options :
1-
Exorcise the demon, maybe get Brady to a hospital, maybe he survives, if not then at least you did the most human thing possible and tried to save someone.

2-
Kill the demon and your maybe-alive friend to sate your need for revenge- for about three seconds.

I could have bought it in Season 4, when Roid!Sam was around. I could have bought it if he had done it before anyone had a chance to react. But Dean actively helping kill the demon? Bullshit.

 

The knife KILLS demons. Doesn't send them back to Hell. Kills them. Removes their existence. Disables the free resurrection button. It doesn't work on say Alistair (Kripke never explained why) but on demons it normally just kills them dead.

No more demon coming back to find a new host, no more demon escaping to fight another day. How else do you think there's no more Ruby? They killed her with her own knife.

Yeah, I'll take that any day.

 

*Sigh*

You're missing the point. Lucifer has Death under his control, and makes him resurrect people. This has been stated by death himself. And it's been proven when Lucifer brought back the demons and their hosts that had been following Sam around his entire life.

There's no more Ruby because Lucifer hates demons even more than humans. He could have brought her back he just chose not to.

The point is this: Exorcising the demon was going to send it to Hell sure. Hell which is owned by Lucifer. If he was caught- highly likely- he would have spent the rest of his eternity being tortured. So between sending an enemy of his to Hell gift-wrapped for Lucifer - who has now been shown to enjoy torture - he chose to kill the demon and the host.

Even if demons couldn't be resurrected (a stretch) it was still the wrong choice. He basically just gave the demon an out so he could stab something. When he could have given it a life-sentence with Lucifer while trying to save his friend.

The demon was fucked anyway, and it knew it (why do you think it didn't fight back and kept taunting Sam?) Sam just decided to fuck Brady along with it.

 

No, I'm not. Death has never resurrected a demon or angel anywhere in Supernatural. Go google it, wiki it, do whatever you like. I'm not saying it's beyond him, I'm saying he's never done it in the show. You're working on conjecture to judge scenarios because you feel you're in the right.

Go look for loopholes. I'll give you a couple on your's:

Death was only briefly under Lucifer's control during the Apocalypse. The why is never explained. Lucifer cannot control Death while in a cage strong enough to hold two archangels.

Demons are the tortured remnants of people. If Death were to resurrect the person they were before they were tortured to demonhood, they'd no longer be demons. I'm aware this is also based on assumptions. But the difference is my assumption at least has a shred of logic to it.

You can wail all you like about the morality of killing someone like Brady. But the fact is in Season 1 the Winchesters were flat out afraid of demons. Hunters avoided them when it was possible at all. You hand anyone a weapon they're told can kill something that is hunting them permanently then 9/10, especially with Supernatural's hunters, they're going to use it.

Sorry the characters in the show don't make assumptions about Lucifer breaking out of his cage and mass resurrecting the demons like you seem to think they should.

I'm done, this is going nowhere very slowly. I'm happy with the characters and it's why I continue to watch the show.

 

He specifically said Lucifer had him raising the dead. His words. And even if you ignore Death for a moment and take Brady's words literally he said "Lucifer is never gonna let you die." If the words are taken literally then Lucifer is just gonna torture him for as long as he could without killing him- and being a demon, that could be a while ( if he can die at all)- a much worse fate than any Sam could throw at him.

Death does tell us that Lucifer is using him as his personal thug, which is why he gave Dean his ring in the first place. And at the time Brady was being killed Lucifer was up and walking so I have no idea what fucking point the second half of your paragraph was trying to convey.

And this would stop Lucifer and his demons...how? Lucifer hates both humans and demons, and Brady betrayed him.And since this is Lucifer we're talking about y'know the guy who created the first demon, this is a temporary roadblock, if he even had any qualms about killing/torturing a human(which is laughable)

First of all :"wailing"?

lol

Second of all: They had the knife in Season 4, didn't stop Sam from going the exorcism route when he could. No one is saying that in a life and death situation they should take the time to exorcise demons. I'm saying that if your friend from Uni has a demon in him, that is trapped and has nowhere to go except down then maybe it's a good fucking idea to get rid of the demon doing as little damage to the body as possible and see whether you could save him. And also not kill a high-ranking corporate exec guaranteeing that there will be an investigation that could make Ellison's last act null and void.

Wow I realise why I got nowhere. Not only are you an idiot who doesn't have the slightest grasp of the chronology (see, I can has ad hominem attacks too!), you're quite good at hiding it.All this time I thought we were on the same page.

This happened in Season FIVE. Near the end actually. So Lucifer has been free for quite a while. And this happened after he bound Death to him.

Take a second google it,wiki it, do whatever you like, or whatever it takes to create an argument not full of anachronisms and ad hominem attacks. Or you could take the second road (which you seem to have done) and shut the fuck up if you can't take anyone questioning the characters instead of pushing all your butt-hurt on someone who was just pointing something out.

 

You are wrong here, based on the bible there are only 3 archangels (Michael, Gabriel and Raphael), pope Gregory the Great add 4 more, but I do not think that show will go with them (Uriel in show was normal angel not arch like Gregory thinks). There are not many prophets around and guarding Chuck was Michael or he himself.
I would like to see this guy in next season. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Samael
About "Ruby" knife, yes it kills demons means end their existence is rather straight forward.

About Brady he wasn't Sam friend for long. He was possessed during Spring-break. Lucifer and any angels of higher power do not need Death for resurrecting. It's in their normal power (snatch the soul from the pit and all that). Lucifer only play with Death, because he go by the book and it's like hiring specialist who will install you toilet, probably you alone could do it too but little slower etc.