I think we decided that in the books thread we weren't going to spoiler tag info from GoT, CoK, SoS or AFFC. Just ADWD. And there aren't any ADWD spoilers in that post.

 

Really? I pity whoever liked the show and decided to jump into the book thread.

 

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Does anyone else get the feeling that Jon wasn't the only person on the Wall to get a letter from the Bastard? All of the plotters crying as they Caesar-ed Jon makes me think that he's the first major external leader to get his hooks into Watch leadership. And it sounds like Roose also died, so the Bastard in control of the only true army left in the North makes me think the next book is going to end with Westeros burning.

 

There's ample warning of spoilers for people who have actually read the thread. The first post contains a spoiler warning, and on page 2 we discuss whether or not to use spoiler tags for everything.

 

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Theres no way Ramsay can hold the North together. He's too fucking crazy and without loyal bannermen he's fucked. Not to mention the fact that the one person who has enough dirt on him to, if not expose him, give people enough reason for rebellion escaped. But the people on the Wall don't know that which is why I found it so odd that Jon showed the, the letter and then tried to march on Winterfell. I have to check but I'm pretty sure it was hinted that they had planned to kill him by then though (or at least by the end of the meeting).

 

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In summer, I'd agree. But we saw what happened to Stannis. Winter is a real barrier to armed conflict. Any attacker seems to instantly give the defender a massive advantage.

 

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I don't think someone like Ramsay could restrain himself. He's not especially rationaL or subtle it seems. Especially not with lords like Manderly who are nearly mutinous, and Freys running around like cockroaches thinking they're running things. If Roose is dead any checks on him are gone and he's gonna do stupid shit.

And like you said, attackers are gonna get fucked up. If a lord starts acting up or refusing to come to heel, what the fuck is he going to do, march through the cold? Convince someone to take out their master for one of the most hated men around? Attack and die, don't attack and be seen as a pussy, which is just a slower death. And that's without someone getting their hands on Jeyne and parading her and Theon in front of everyone.

Or at least, I hope that's what'll happen. Fuck it, the Boltons have had success in two books now, it's a safe bet .

 

Just finished. My thoughts have pretty much all been said, though I do feel the need to point out:

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the Jesus imagery with Cersei...not quite sure where GRRM was going with this, but it was coming on pretty strong, what with the climbing the hill, the mocking, the falling, etc

On the subject of "writing cowardice":

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I suspect that we'll at least see the Battle of Winterfell in the next book. It's too big of an event with too many main characters involved to just wrote it off like that.

Final thoughts:

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Jon is a class-A retard. Dany needs to finish manning up. Starting by burning that Khal and his 50 men to cinders, because there's not much chance that they aren't there to kill her. Everyone else needs to get a move on.

This also seems to be the Book of Bringing People Back From the Dead. Theon, Asha, Aegon, Mance, Brienne, Jon Connington (was he supposed to be dead?), and that's just off the top of my head.

 

Note: Can this be considered necro'ing a thread? If so, sorry.

I've been reading through the Song of Ice and Fire books, and, although I enjoy the overarching storyline, I actually think the books are lacking in characterisation. To be honest, I've only received a surface impression of most of the characters. I can't relate with them very well. Has anyone else felt this way?

To be fair, the characters are all interesting and not so sparsely described that I don't understand them. But the lack of a real protagonist is hurting the reading experience for me. It's too scattered, so that I never really get particularly enthused about any one character.

I'd still recommend the books, but... I don't know, something is definitely lacking for me.

 

I'm curious as to how far in you are. I certainly felt that way in book 1 or so, but I quickly became rather fond of all of the characters. I mean....how can you not be enthused about motherfucking Arya Stark? (or Sansa, or Daenerys, or Littlefinger, or Jaime, or oh god I could go on forever)

 

I've finished the second book, started on the third. I'm somewhat fond of Arya, Daenerys, and Jaime. But I dunno, I guess I'm just not feeling it yet. I'll press on, though, and maybe my opinion will change for the better. As I said, I am enjoying the books, but the lack of a true protagonist is jarring. Perhaps this decentralised style will grow on me.

 

I remember enjoy book 1 a lot, thinking book 2 was ok, then getting distracted about halfway through book 3, putting it down and never getting round to picking it back up.

 

I think the writing style is a bit bizarre and different to what we're used to. It isn't that the characters are not characterized well, it's just that the writing style seems very disconnected from the characters' emotions.

Took me a while to get into. Though that was potentially also because I had seen the series, so when I read the first book was pretty keen to just get on with it.

 

I was about to finish a feast for crows but unfortunately I kind of misplaced it and I can't find it. Anyway I have a lot of questions for you guys, hope I'll get some clarity on them.

First and foremost Jaime Lannister, what is going on with his Character, reading from his point of view I can't tell whether his apparent change in character was brought on by his stay with the Wench or that is how he is really being and it was only circumstances that made him to be portrayed as the "evil" character?

Second, I find Arya's storyline to be the most interesting one in the books, but unfortunately we get very little about her in AFFC so for those who have read the fifth book are we going to have more of her?

Another thing, I am not sure if I was reading to much into this but what did Catelyn's Uncle mean that Jon becoming Lord commander somehow made him a traitor(to the starks) even going so far as to compare him to Greyjoy.

Is Cersei still a POV because she is the most annoying, despicable little Cunt in the whole book, and I don't think I can handle her as one, she took up most of AFFC, sometimes forcing me to skip a whole chapter only to go back and reread it just in case something important happens.

I don't understand where Mr.Martin is going with Sansa's character, she is even referring to Little finger as Father? what the hell, didn't she all but kill her true father Ned and now she is just going to replace him, if any "major" character should die I hope its her.

When Little finger says that there are three queens is he talking about Dany? Is Davos really dead?

Not finishing the book has left me craving for a lot of questions and I just have to know and decide whether I should go back all the way I think I left it or read it online, which would suck.

 

I'll admit that my recollection of the series may be spotty (as I haven't read the books in a while), but I'll try my best to answer.

First and foremost Jaime Lannister, what is going on with his Character, reading from his point of view I can't tell whether his apparent change in character was brought on by his stay with the Wench or that is how he is really being and it was only circumstances that made him to be portrayed as the "evil" character?

Jaime was never really an evil character as much as a magnificent, glorious, bastard of a man with a penchant for killing things and fucking his sister. He's never been away from Cersei the way he has after his capture by the Starks, and, well, a prideful man of his nature losing his sword hand, being taken care of by a woman (albeit a fucking powerhouse of one) has got to have a profound effect on his psyche. Jaime gets better- you'll get to see at the end of Feast a very large character development for him. It has to do with a letter.

Arya's story seems to be very popular. I like it well enough, though I prefer reading about the events surrounding the Wall and recently, Sansa. Yes, we do get more of her in Dance.

I think you're reading too far into this. In the eyes of Catelyn (and thus, most likely her uncle as well), Jon was never a Stark. He's a Snow, and all that entails. Outside of showing loyalty towards his father, there wouldn't be any expectation for him at all, as long as he brings no shame to the House, and it's plain that the Starks believe that serving on the Wall is an honorable path. But, Catelyn is a Tully, so there might be some differences there.

Cersei's bits are so fucking amusing to read in Dance. If you disliked her in earlier books, you'll enjoy seeing become less and less composed and just breaking down into some pretty lulzy shit.

To be frank, nobody understands where GRRM is taking any of his characters to any certain degree outside of GRRM and his writing buddies. As for Sansa, Littlefinger is trying to (at least as far as he tells her and by proxy the reader) hoist her up to be the legitimate ruler of the Eyrie and eventually retake Winterfell for her. I'll admit the details are sketchy in my mind, but it had something to do with Jon Arryn's brat of a son being fucking weak and fenagling a deal with powerful Houses in the Eyrie to get Littlefinger (and then Sansa) proclaimed the rightful Regent. Or something. My memory IS pretty bad.

I don't recall the quote.

Your loss! :awesome

I would read it all again though. For great success.

 

He's pretty much not evil, his problem was always that he let Cersei lead him around, and well, Cersei is a dumb bitch.

I don't know why everyone love Arya I personally skipped her bits, they got tiresome.

I was pretty sad when I read those sections of Dance actually .I might have cried iirc . Cersei was a maniacal, crazy bitch and if the events of Dance had happened after GoT I would have been cheering, but Feast shows us a pretty fucking flawed person.

The fact that she was always in her family's shadow makes her want to rule, but the fact that she never learned how to makes her a terrible queen.That and she can't fucking control herself. Then you throw in some other shit from her childhood and I can see why she acted the way she did. I loved her in Feast because it was like watching a train wreck,I couldn't decide whether to be amused or sad really.

 

Yeah, found all of Arya's stuff after Harennhal to just be a bit dull to read. I mean, I can appreciate the way her character is changing, but it's just not in any way as cool as some of the other stuff happening.

Always was more interested in what was happening at the Wall, with Jaime, Brienne, Tyrion and Sansa for most of it. And at times, other places when they got interested (The Onion Night, Arianna (Dorne), and even Asha).

With Jaime, you can even note his history. He killed the Mad King upon realizing he planned to burn the entire capital to the floor, as he eventually tells Brienne. To some extent, that speaks of a level of morality.

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On another note, was it just me who got a bit annoyed when Varys went and killed Kevan? I mean just when you think things in King's Landing are finally gonna start to settle down now that Cersei was gone...

 

He is a knight, and a knight of the Kingsguard at that. He, the firstborn son of Lord Tywin Lannister, gave up claims to his family's lands, and the right marry and to father children. So clearly, even in his youth, Jaime had a sense of honor.

It's Cersei that's the problem, IMO, but hey. Incestuous twins are incestuous twins. :awesome

Maybe. I was too busy going LOLWAT to be outraged.