I think the DEs did a good job. I think the last evening kill was a good play and I think Dark Minion was particularly good at being the one mafia that didn't float in the same circles. He'd have been very hard to kill if it had ever gotten to him, IMO. Once Ashaya fell, I think Havoc would've persisted along the line of going after you.

I was certain Ashaya would die first evening and I was pissed because I had made her a Death Eater and a scum kill on the first evening is shit. But it's amazing how people regard certain people (good call on getting rid of Xiph0) w/o any reason to. Their forum voice does carry weight. Hopefully that will diminish and people will analyze people based on their in-thread actions. Even if Ashaya was innocent, I would advocate having gotten her out of the way if everyone was consistently getting hung up on her.

Because she was focus #1, whenever someone pointed out that they had no evidence, whoever was focus #2 immediately was bandwagoned for no reason as well (which highlights how stupid Taure's post is). Why that was bad is that no one was gaining any information concerning voting pattern or deception because all of it was wasted on a non-vote (go back and read Lord Anarchy's, Tenages and Dark Minion's posts). They were subtle in their defense of Ashaya. Had people lynched him, those posts would've started standing out to the right people.

 

It was not discussed by any of us, she just went and did it. It looked like it was going to be a stalemate regardless, but I was slightly worried that more people would gang up on me. It was an attempt to deflect attention off herself, but like I've been saying since day one, there was no real evidence that shone her as guilty, and if I were a villager, I still probably would have pointed that out (like rehio did)

 

Well you establish the beginning of a pattern, who's accusing who, who's defending who, who's talking and who's not, so there are some merits. But the way this game was set up, with Day 1 happening before Night 1, it would be better to no lynch Day 1.

What surprised me was how the Order Members didn't out themselves Day 2. It would be extremely easy then to clear 2 people, and if by some weird reason the Death Eaters try to claim being an Order Member, well you could confirm straight off by investigating just one person with a great chance of confirming one Death Eater (because there was a Dark Lord, it's not completely foolproof).

That and Lion. Yes, he was a horrible Auror. The village died without a fight because of it.

So the village shouldn't feel too bad, it's not completely their fault they went around shooting themselves in the foot.

 

Oh, and, we tried putting more heat on me, because if I was investigated, I would show up clean. I lied to Lutris when I said I forgot about that I never got investigated though (I think?) so that was a moot point. I think If ashaya did get killed, I more than likely would have been next.

Some more insight on the first day. After the first day, where it was 7-7, Ashaya probably would have been killed. Two people PMed their votes to Merrill instead of posting them, and I'm fairly confident both Riley and Havoc would have voted Ashaya off, so even if we killed one of the 9 in the night, they would still have numbers on us 8-7. So we had to make some of the other voting block switch, so we killed one of our own, Scrittore, in the hopes that some people would think that a Death Eater wouldn't vote off someone who was helping them. Also, it was somewhat revenge because Scrittore kept killing me in #werewolf when I was the see on the first night, three times in a row -_-

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Even if Lion didn't clear Ashaya, we probably would have won, but it would have taken longer. It would have stalemated every day phase probably.

 

Well played Death Eater scum. Well played.

As for the rest of us bumbling retards - I will find you and I will kill you. ^_^

 

With this village...most likely. But at least one Death Eater would have been killed!

 

This was very interesting to follow, though I must say I feld a bit sad for the villagers on how hopeless it seemed. The Death Eaters did a great job on spreading the guilt and suspicion between everyone.

@Merrill
Do you plan on rehosting? From outside perspective I really cant think of anything you could have done better.

@Taure
To put it simply, lynching and the threat of lynching is what keeps the game going. Your dream of the statistical approach would end up with the wizard/witches doing absolutely nothing for few(or several) days until someone comes forward and manages to convince others that he knows for sure who is the mafioso.

That translates into a boring game to me. Lynching some random bloke right off the start might not sound so good on paper but it keeps the game fun and moving forward.

 

If you guys decide to do another game I would really like a spot, this was utterly hilarious to watch and looks like a lot of fun.

 

Voting against other Mafia is a well-used tactic and can definitely save the Mafia down the line if the village is on a role. I do like how I've basically gotten moron off his "hurr don't lynch w/o evidence" shtick. There is no 100% verifiable evidence in a game of mafia available to the town. The investigator could be a Death Eater and the investigator sometimes cannot claim or soft-claim if a healer doesn't get drawn. There are no full-proof tells nor 100% methods of determining who is who.

However, villagers have a vote. And once you start voting and actually lynching, you start establishing a pattern. Failing to vote 3 out of 6 days is a tremendous failure. Test people who go out on a limb. They did that one day (on Vira). If Ashaya were innocent, I'd target the person who went after her. It gets the ball rolling.

Edit: To Audeamus: Taure has no idea about the probabilities or statistics. He's making shit up.

​

 

You risk outing the Healer/Auror, and with a Sorcerer on the loose, that's not something you could really afford.

At least on Day 2, the Auror could maybe get lucky and guilty a Death Eater, or at least he now knows an innocent (possibly). Or if not, there's the threat of that so you could introduce all kinds of meta-game shenanigans into things.

But that's really just a consequence of how the setup was done. Really think that if another game is hosted, Night phase should be first before Day phase...

 

Night phase means one person basically doesn't participate except for a glorified death scene. Lynching first day is a more humane way of saying we're trying to get rid of everyone and you're unfortunately it. That's the true objective of the game.

I'm open to doing a night opening, however. I'm open to suggestions about roles and what not (i.e. Serial Killer role, Pro-town roleblocker).

One idea was giving investigator an ability to basically ask me about one or two lines of text to see if it's a lie. I've read about that but I haven't seen it in action.

But kick some thoughts out. I'm definitely interested.

As for next game, maybe in the next week or so.

 

...

16 players, 4 bad guys. Random selection lynching = 4/16 or 1/4 chance of getting a Death Eater.

This isn't high-level stuff, Merrill.

There's a lot of talk about "establishing patterns". Complete bullshit. Let's look at at this game. What if Ashaya had been killed first round? Would that have established any voting patterns? Would it have made the people who defended her look suspicious? No. You had just as many non-Death Eaters as Death Eaters defending her. And they were right to do so, because the only reason to go for her was that she made the first post. There was no information to be gained from her death or her life.

Agreed. But who's saying anything about 3 days? I'm saying it makes rational sense to not lynch someone first round. After that information starts trickling in. Sure, you can never be sure of a person's honesty, even if they outright say what role they are, because they could be lying. But it gives direction to the game. Before the first night you might as well replace the players with dice.

 

This was pretty fun to read, big respect to Merrill for putting in the effort to set this up.

 

Actually, one can assume fairly well that some of the people defending Ashaya on the first day were fellow Death Eaters. Lynching someone on the first day has a purpose, especially when their is multiple death eaters. This plays out in IRC when we play #werewolf with two werewolves all the time.

 

Herpaderpa.

 

True, but you have no way of knowing which are which. And that's even assuming you get a Death Eater. Most of the time you won't, and will just be handing the Death Eaters a free kill.

Also, it's ignoring the possibility that even in the first round Death Eaters might be laying misdirection by voting for their own.

 

This is true. This is also one of the reasons why we killed Scrittore, because he came up with the idea that Death Eaters may split their votes to hide themselves, and by killing him, it would make it look like he was on to something.

 

Well, Palindrome's idea has merit. I personally have only played Mafia IRL, but quite a few of those games involved two more pro-town roles: the Vigilante and Beloved Princess.

The Vigilante spiced things up, and the only reason we added the Princess was because the townspeople kept on winning, lol. The Princess made people a bit more paranoid and cautious about lynching. =/

A pro-town roleblocker would be a great addition. I don't know what you'd call the role, though. The Mugwump? Seriously, no idea.

EDIT: On the topic of "to lynch or not to lynch", townspeople tend to win more when they lynch, at least in my experience IRL. Maybe it's different online, but lynching ensures that you don't reach stalemates which the Mafia can exploit. Lynching stupidly without thinking is one thing, but not lynching at all is another. In the IRL Mafia games, you have get at least two people lynched by Day Three, or else you (the townspeople) won't have enough clues to one-up the Mafia. Information comes from people dying.

tl;dr, I would agree with Merrill, at least in my experience of IRL Mafia. Lynching helps the townspeople; that's why the Princess can be a bitch. =O

 

See. That's the thing. Is there is no guarantee of that or the opposite. There is no verifiable proof. Therefore....

You should lynch every day.

 

This whole thread was lulz, especially DarkMinion's final "LOOK AT ME I'M A DEATH EATER' post. I mean seriously? I was rolling because it just seemed to fly over everyone's heads. I think he was just trolling by that point. Why wouldn't he? Everyone was stuck between their hard-ons for Ashaya and attacking some slightly suspicious villager.

Damn, this looked like fun. I wonder when the next one is being held? I would love to participate.