Oh don't start using logic in a magical world, isn't that what you said I was doing? Obviously I can't say it's more logical, but neither is yours and as there isn't any canon info for what the truth is, it could be both or neither~

 

I very seriously doubt the Age Line has anything to do with the Trace. Not only would this make the Age Line extremely limited, as it's only usable for one age, it would also be redundant. The existence of the Trace shows that it's possible for age-based magic. So why would Dumbledore use magic based on different magic, that's based on age, when he could cut out the middleman and base his own spell on age? There's no reason at all for him to use the Trace for his Age Line.

It would be incredibly stupid if it was possible for just anyone to sign a magically binding contract for someone else. I don't think an object, that's been used for this same cause for centuries, would have such an obvious flaw. Even if it was possible at first, which I seriously doubt, it would have been changed to moment a kid thought it was funny to sign in the bloke that stole his girlfriend for a possibly letal tournament.

When dealing with Rowling's magic system, always assume the most straightforward answer, unless stated otherwise. It simply works the way it works. So in this case, the spell changes someone back, retaining his memories and identity, because that's how the spell works. No need whatsoever for any external magical storage of information. Period.

It's all in the spell.

 

How is it limited? The whole point of the line is to keep out students under the age of seventeen, and by basing the line off of the Trace, the options of the students trying to get by are extremely limited, because from the books, we can assume that most underage students have the Trace, or at least Underage students in the UK.

Also, sense it might be considered a ward, breaking it is an option for breaking it.

In canon, one of Dumbledore's questions to Harry about his name showing up was if Harry asked another, older student entered his name, thus it being a potential loophole in the ward/spell, because of a student who was of age would not have had the Trace present to be detected, and thus would have been able to cross the line to enter a younger student's name.

I will admit that the line could be something entirely different, but wouldn't the line simply being a ward that detects the Trace on a student, and ejecting a student if they do indeed possess the Trace make sense?

 

Harry obviously remembers friends and family perfectly well in his animagus form.

The ministry doesn't track wands or individuals, they monitor areas, that's why Harry can get away with performing magic in his home. Muggleborns are fucked, unless they go to Diagon Alley or something..

 

Animagi are an exception to that rule. Read the excerpts from Beedle the Bard earlier on in the thread.

Incorrect. The Trace tracks the person, but being in a magical area interferes with it's ability to tell who is performing the magic.

 

Just because this Age Line is meant to keep out students under 17, doesn't mean that spell's only used for people of that age. It would be very limited if it was, seeing as we know spells can be based on age, so it should be just as easy to make an age line for, say, 29-year-olds. There really is no reason at all to include the Trace and it would only limit the possibilities of the spell.

That doesn't mean Dumbledore thought it would be easy for such a student to put Harry's name in. That student would have still needed to be able to perform an exceptionally powerful Confundus Charm. That wasn't why he asked, either way. He simply wanted to know whether or not Harry had tried to make himself a champion, or if this was all part of some yet unknown plot.

If it would have been that easy to circumvent the Age Line, the Weasley twins wouldn't have bothered with their Ageing Potion, seeing as they probably knew plenty of older students. And Dumbledore would have just added another layer of security, that prevented someone from entering someone else's name. He isn't stupid.

 

Regarding "the Trace": keep in mind that Harry (and after he figures it out, Nathan) is able to do magic during breaks because there's no way of detecting his magic separately from the magic his parents do. I'd imagine that applies even more within Hogwarts.

 

The age limit imposed by Dumbledore (and supported by Madame Maxime, as told by Karkaroff) is based on the age of majority for wizards and witches around the world (or at least that's how JKR suggested), because the big schools do magic that their students begin at age 11 years old and end when they have reached, at least, 17 years old. Based on this fact, all ministries have the tracker magic to find out if underage wizards violate the Statute of Secrecy (though really only works for mages raised in families or orphanages where there are no wizards or witches adults), known as the Trace. Given these facts, it is likely that the line of age Dumbledore conjured around the Goblet of Fire is based on the Trace.

The following is an excerpt from Chapter 17 of Harry Potter and the Goblet of Fire (I'm translating this passage from the Spanish version, so I apologize in advance if it is different from any version in English):

Therefore, if Santi follows the official version put forward by JKR in the fourth book, it is possible bypass the Dumbledore's age line if an older student take a a piece of parchment written by another student which must be writing his/her name and the name of his/her school.

This fragment also rule out the possibility of a champion, after being selected by the Goblet of Fire, had to stop being does not possess parental permission (although this could change Santi if he wanted).
​

 

Would Krum risk punishment to put Calypso and HArry's name into the goblet, simplest way to enter. Krum can use the old excuse, that HArry is the better Wizard, and what would they really do to the famous international wizard.
ALso does Kira meet the age restrictions, I cant remember.

 

I doubt Calypso will be entering too, it would be to much of a cluster fuck that way. Also Syed please stop capitalizing the first 2 letters it's annoying.

 

... It's syed. He's been capitalizing the first two letters for four years and counting. I don't think you can get him to kick that habit.

The only solution to a syed infestation is the banhammer. Unfortunately, most forums don't make "being retarded" a bannable offense. Fortunately, this one does.

 

While I don't like it, I see your point. She made most things simple so why change it here, when you put it that way it's the most probable explanation. Oh well, there's always fanfiction and there it can be as elaborate as the author wishes~

 

The underlying principle of it all goes back to something Rowling wrote in HBP, IMO: "Magic always leaves traces." How you prefer to imagine these "traces" working is up to you, and might be fodder for some fanfiction authors. But it's all that's needed to explain how someone can transfigure something back to its original form without knowing the form (see also: McGonagall returning ferret!Malfoy to his natural state).

I understood what you meant here, Expelliarmus, but I have to say that the "conjures Dumbledore" part gave me a funny mental image.

*16-year-old walks past the age line*
*Dumbledore is conjured out of thin air*
"WHAT ARE YOU DOING, YOU MOTHERFUCKER!"
"...fuuuuuuuuu-"

 

I really, really can't stand reading this thread. I want to, because I like this story. But good lord, this has really become the cesspool of DLP. It's kind of a problem.

 

I think we really need to enforce the No Morons rule, because these trolls arent going to leave after a good ribbing, they just seemed to fester here, and they're breeding like rabbits. So if someone posts something incredibly idiotic and makes you think they're a troll, dont reply because they probably are a troll.

But to get back to why people actually read this thread, does anyone see Harry NOT becoming a dark lord? This might have already been suggested before people started ranting about Nazis, but is it possible Harry might side with his brother and be fudamentally opposed to Voldemort rather than to become his follower as some have suggested and just use dark magic and be the family black sheep?

 

I like to think Harry just goes off to do MAD MAGIC not really caring about the world except his few loved ones. Like, he'll have no problems crossing moral boundaries in his experiments and will seem ruthless to everyone.

 

Will Harry become a dark wizard? Yes. A dark lord? Not necessarily.

 

I'm pretty sure that's generally how people think this is going.

 

Dark Lord or Dark Wizard? Because it's been pretty clear since day one that Harry will become a Dark Wizard.

If it's about siding with Voldemort, which certainly doesn't make him a Dark Lord, all the evidence right now seems to be pointing to Harry siding with his family. He's no blood purist, and no one in his immediate circle is either, limiting any form of "peer pressure" on that front. From that alone, he is distanced from Voldemort's ideals, or at least what his followers claim to fight for.

Beyond that, it's been shown that Harry holds a deep love for his family, even going so far as to be in towering rages every time his brother it put in danger for some stupid reason. As that's not likely to change, it's pretty safe to assume that Harry's not going to side with a guy whose gonna be hell bent on killing his family.

@The Santi, a belated awesome update was awesome, as I only got around to reading the segment an hour ago. My question is, and it might have been covered in the ten pages of posts that I've spent most of the last hour skimming, is Rosier Sr. known to be alive in the circle of "acquitted Death Eaters" (Malfoy and his ilk)? If not, it seems a little odd that he'd be able to hold information about Karkaroff's protections over his head.

Edit: And I've been ninja'd by no less than three people in the time it took me to write this and brush my teeth. This thread is amazing.

 

I think Voldemort will remain Nathan's business. He is the Boy-Who-Lived and Chosen One after all. Even if it turns out he isn't, Dumbledore would still be the bigger threat to Voldemort, so I doubt Harry will suddenly take that role. Harry turning out to be the real Chosen One and proceeding to kick Voldemort's ass would be cliched anyway and while I'm sure The Santi could do it right, I also think he could do something better.

So, at best, I see Harry supporting Nathan in his fight, but mostly staying at the sidelines and protecting his family. It doubt that will even be the focus of the story though. This is about Harry's progression to a Bad Ass Mother Fucker after all, not about his battle against Voldemort. I can see the coming war playing an important role in his development, but it won't be the culmination point of his story, like it was for canon!Harry.

Throughout the story, it has been confirmed time and time again that Harry loves his family. So I think it would be interesting to see how the threat of this war and Voldemort to that family will shape Harry. I can definitely see him pushing himself even more, just to protect them. He might even fight with them over joining the Order and, in extension to that, fight with Dumbledore and the Order if he thinks they're too weak.

This could lead to Harry joining the Order himself, although I doubt he will want to subject himself to another's will like that, especially if he thinks they're not doing all they can to protect his brother. Things might change if, say, James got killed and revenge suddenly starts to play a role. Because you don't touch his family. Even then, though, I think he'd rather go on his own killing spree than join an Order sanctioned one.

I do think it could be a great twist if Harry distances himself from the war a little, only to be dragged back in, when his distraught brother comes to him, because he just found out he was a Horcrux. Having Harry go through hell and back to find a way to solve this, only to have to kill his own brother in the end, could be a great Defining Moment for the story. Of course, in that case, Harry probably would want his own shot at Voldemort and maybe a kick at the shins of Dumbledore as well.