Derp moment.

 

First of all, this is Dumbledore who allowed Snape to "teach" and put a fucking Cerberus in a corridor after telling a bunch of children not to go there.

Secondly, if I remember canon, almost all eligible students put their name in, so helping competition would make no sense for them. Although I agree that the question was asked by Dumbledore more for show.

I would much more like to see Viktor entering Harry's name than Harry, who just started studying wards, breaking one put up by Dumbledore. Even a lame one.

 

I think you guys are overestimating the ward somewhat.

When you were at school, did the school go about putting a lot of effort into actions to prevent people from breaking the rules? Did they install smoke detectors in areas where students were likely to smoke? Or did they just make the rules and then punish you if you broke them?

I don't think it really says much at all that Dumbledore didn't go about using magic to prevent every possible instance of rule breaking. It just puts him in line with the norm of most educational institutions, and indeed law enforcement agencies.

Dumbledore might just expect people to obey the rules without having to enforce it.

And besides, the likelihood that the Goblet would select a younger student, even if they got their name in, is low. It only selected Harry because Crouch confounded the goblet.

 

That's a pretty ridiculous point to be honest - most normal schools don't have tournaments that pit you up against freaking Dragons.

Dumbledore won't have to punish someone who is underage for entering the tournament, because they'll probably be dead within ten seconds of the First task starting. If my school had a competition that pitted students against a rabid tiger or something, I'd want to be pretty damn sure underage kids weren't going to get killed.

 

Dragons or no, most schools do have rules related to safety that you're simply expected to obey.

Just think about all the dangerous situations in a school's workshop. Welding irons, buzzsaws, sanding wheels, etc. It's not the case that all students are supervised at all times. You're told the rules and you're expected to obey them. If you get caught breaking them, you get in trouble. But if a student is determined to throw himself on a buzzsaw, it's perfectly possible.

 

True enough, and a better example than your smoking one, but basically those situations are a necessary evil. The student needs to use the buzzsaw, however the teacher can't always be supervising, so the student is simply expected to obey the rules (and there isn't truly any reason for someone sane to willingly hurt themselves using a buzzsaw anway).

The Goblet is an entirely different situation. The older students need to put their names in the cup, but the difference is Dumbledore can logistically stop younger kids from entering themselves by using wards. And he will, because that's his job. Additionally, there is a compelling reason that he can't simply trust the younger students to do the right thing - if they enter the tournament, they have a chance at a thousand galleons and "eternal glory". There has to be precautions - which Dumbledore can easily set up, at the cost of only a little effort - because younger students would doubtlessly break the rules to enter. Just look at Ron, after all.

 

Right, and Dumbledore did take reasonable precautions. Just like teachers in Design Technology take reasonable precautions. What I'm saying is that there's no reason to think he would take unreasonable precautions to cover every single scenario, because that doesn't happen in real life either.

In the case of the older students submitting the names of younger students, the only way around that would be to constantly supervise the goblet and to examine every entry. Not exactly practical.

Which is where the second part of my argument comes in. Even if a younger student gets their name into the cup, the only situation in which they'd get selected was if they were more competent than the older students. In which case they're less likely to die than the older student was.

Really, an age line wasn't necessary at all. The nature of the selection excludes those likely to die.

With Harry, the real problem wasn't that his name got into the goblet. The problem was the confundus charm.

 

Sure if the student really wanted to hurt themselves on power machinery, but most teachers only allow usage of power tools by students they trust[due to whatever criteria] after at least some supervised training and probation period. Also we needed a parental waiver.

So why shouldn't Dumbledore allow students to compete if they guardians agree to let their ward compete?

If it's only a legal choice, then the option should be left to the student and his/her parents.

Hogsmeade permission slips anyone?

 

I definitely agree with your second point, and I can see where you're coming from. However, if you were in charge of the tournament, could you honestly say that you'd be perfectly fine if there was even the slightest change of someone 11-16 fighting a dragon?

It just seems somewhat negligent that in a world of ghosts, sentient objects, magical wards, Dumbledore would just leave the Cup completely unprotected. And he obviously put some amount of effort into the wards - he had to have considered the chance of someone using an Aging potion and added the prank (making the twins have a beard, etc.) accordingly. If he considered that tactic, what's to say he didn't consider more?

Anyway, like I said previously I don't see too much point in arguing about how Harry could get around the age line, as we simply don't know enough about it and what protections were around it.

 

Personally I like the suggestion a couple pages back of Harry transfiguring something into a really big stick to drop his name in the goblet, even if the person wasn't being serious who suggested it. Just the mental image of him doing such a thing has me chuckling with amusement. Even better would be when he has to explain to everyone how he pulled it off and we get to read all their incredulous responses. There would be hilarity all around. Besides I have always been a big fan of the KISS method when it comes to problem solving.

 

It would be hilarious if Harry fails to trick the Goblet and only gets to compete because Crouch enters his name in.

That would be sure to piss him off.

 

I don't see why Crouch would put Harry's name in instead of Nathan's. That raises the possibility of both Potters competing.

Regarding the Goblet, the thing to consider is what its original purpose was. It was enchanted to judge the worthiness of students as champions of their schools - the handwritten names are submitted, and the worthiest ones come out. There really isn't any reason why the person who created the artifact would have put protections to prevent someone from submitting another's name. Anyone who wanted to enter could (because there weren't any age restrictions); putting someone else's name wouldn't be a good way to exact revenge, because it would have been a great honor to be champion, and the odds on a particular name being chosen would be low.

Obviously he didn't do that, so it's a non-issue. Dumbledore's protections seem reasonable; under-age students who wanted to put their name in ended up focusing on beating the age line instead of thinking outside the box. Since many older students were entering themselves, or had friends who were, it would have been difficult to convince someone else to submit their name. Add to that the fact that even if they managed to enter their name they would most probably be deemed less worthy, the scenario against which Dumbledore would have needed to take extra-ordinary precautions seems incredibly unlikely.

And finally, in that worst case scenario, the result would be reasonably harmless. In canon, Harry did fine with a bit of luck and help; officials wouldn't have let a student die facing the dragon. We should also keep in mind that this is the magical world, in which trees would happily pound students to a pulp and if you open the wrong door you might get munched on by a three-headed dog. Dumbledore seems content in telling people not to do stupid things.

Yeah, it's nice to look back and see how far the story has gone since the beginning, but that's not very accurate.

The vast majority are 4/5 ratings, apart from Andro being a killjoy. The consensus was that the story showed a lot of promise, but that it could easily go downhill if the author wasn't careful. Thankfully, Santi consistently meets DLP's standards.

 

The recent delve into warding perhaps suggests to me that Harry will be more likely to tackle the Age Line directly; as someone else said the fact that it was cast by Dumbledore himself would be seen as too compelling a challange to Harry to turn down.

 

Voldemort would consider Nathan more of an enemy than Harry though, seeing as he saw him as a potential Death Eather. And he needs "Blood of the enemy" for his ritual.

 

I wouldn't mind it if Voldemort or Crouch put both Potter boys' names in. It would divide the family from within, as well as the student body of Hogwarts. Not to mention the media, courtesy of Rita Skeeter.

As for why Voldemort would enter Harry's name, he could just want to see how his investment is paying off. He could just let him compete through the tasks and assess his skills. then have Crouch attack him in the maze before he can beat Nathan to the Cup.

 

The discussion of the goblet is rather played out. We've discussed nearly every possible method and outcome. However this made me do a double-take

Lolwut? Come on Taure, you're better than that. They have magic. The idea that the only way to prevent older students from submitting the names of younger students to to have someone check every single entry is somewhat ridiculous. I have no trouble believing that magic can prevent people from entering the wrong name. Otherwise you'd have glory hungry, rich little shits paying off older students to enter their names left and right.

Not to mention it isn't really that impractical to have someone checking all entries to the goblet. Post someone from the Ministry there. Hell post Filch. Going further, Hogwarts is full of ghosts. Station one at the goblet. Don't need sleep, can read, can communicate.

 

Yeah, it's only there for 24 hours anyways. Dumbledore could stay there for that long, if that's what it took.

 

Overall, the age line in general just bugs me. It is a completely useless creation for the tournament in cannon. After all, the goblet chooses whoever is most qualified out of all the names submitted to represent their respective school. If the goblet chooses a 14 year old wizard over a 17 year old, that just means that the 14 year old is more likely to survive the tournament than anyone else. You would think that Dumbledore would want to have as big of a pool of possible candidates as possible so that the student that is most likely not to die will be chosen.

 

Blood of the enemy...there's no possible chance Harry has the blood he needs? I mean they were both there the night he killed Mrs Evans. Or are my assuming wrongly that her dying provided the protection.