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Can a human be conjured?

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by Infidel, Sep 24, 2011.

  1. ViolentRed

    ViolentRed Professor

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    I don't think it's possible to conjure magic. But I'm pretty sure that exact same question was already discusses a few weeks ago.
     
  2. wordhammer

    wordhammer Dark Lord DLP Supporter

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    Rookwood's lab notes- January, 1997

    The Dark Lord's Christmas gift of Unicorn blood was put to good use. Our Simulacrums have been lasting much longer now. What I have been able to accomplish with Severus' assistance has been interesting, but not sufficient for the Dark Lord's request.

    A conjured or transfigured human looks entirely too generic to be useful for infiltration or blackmail. Subsequent transfigurations were able to simulate the appearance of an individual, but the person's movements and personality were absent. How a person sits, walks, lays down or even scratches an itch is a personal thing. Severus mentioned something about 'muscle memory' worth investigating. I should see about acquiring a Pensieve.

    The Dark Lord was able to possess the empty brain of our replicated Dumbledore, but he moved in an entirely too serpentine and (dare I say it?) Voldemort-ish fashion.

    Addition of Polyjuice components led to a muscular breakdown- it is as if the Polyjuice requires a sturdy base-form to modify, without which the new individual's appearance and movements tear the musculature apart.

    I enjoy watching my experiments fail a little too much, I think. Time for a break. I think I'll wander down to Bisect 'U' Alley and see whom would be willing to indulge in my potions...
     
    Last edited: Sep 24, 2011
  3. Aekiel

    Aekiel Angle of Mispeling ~ Prestige ~ DLP Supporter

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    Rookwood's Lab Notes could turn into an interesting humour story, albeit black humour (which is the best kind).
     
  4. Gabrinth

    Gabrinth Chief Warlock DLP Supporter

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    It's only the last line where I'd honestly say you're wrong. Yes, we are conditioned to move our muscles in certain ways over our life time, but humans are not without instinct. Well, we call it reflex in order to create a mental dichotomy between animals and ourselves so we can feel more smexual, but it really is the same thing.

    If someone had the capabilities (where I agree with Taure in saying it's probably extraordinarily difficult due to the complexity of even just the upper brain) they could get a breathing human with the ability to move about.

    Everything else would probably be lacking. We really can't say for certain. Probably even if it had working eyes, it would be incapable of making out a 3D world. It would be interesting though, if this were real life, as perhaps it could truly show us the differences between biology and environment...

    Now, the original post seemed to be more connected to 'why wouldn't it be possible.' Well, possible is hard to put a limit to with magic. But, most likely, it's either simply left as impossible due to some magical law, or it's considered truly dark magic.

    It would make sense that a society would view conjuring people with extreme disdain.
     
  5. PomMan

    PomMan High Inquisitor

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    The only people I would see that would conjure people would be dark wizards in order for methods to gain strength or something. There would be no other real use and so people would despise somebody that could do that.
     
    Last edited: Sep 26, 2011
  6. Kthr

    Kthr Unspeakable DLP Supporter

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    It all depends on how much the conjuring would take off the caster. If we assume you can control the conjured person without the use of a imperius curse, I would never do my laundry again.
     
  7. Fenraellis

    Fenraellis Chief Warlock

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    I wonder if a conjured human with actual perception of the world and the ability to consciously think, wouldn't just be a near replica in such a manner as the conjurer themselves. This, being due to the fact that different people perceive and think in completely different fashions, and in applying such concepts to a conjured being, one would be most likely to do so in a way that they can personally comprehend.
     
  8. Skeletaure

    Skeletaure Magical Core Enthusiast ~ Prestige ~ DLP Supporter

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    Human conjuration is actually taught in 7th year by McGonagall. She takes boy-girl pairs into her office and teaches them in private, personally tutoring them in the details of how a witch and a wizard, when they combine their powers, can conjure a human being.

    It's a long process, lasting around 9 months, but it's possible.
     
  9. Portus

    Portus Heir

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    So. You're just having Ashaya help you work on your NEWTS, is that it?

    Quick, somebody grab a calendar. DLP needs to plan a "Conjured Human Shower."
     
  10. Tasoli

    Tasoli Minister of Magic

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    Voldemort's Dairy was conjured itself. Or at least was in the progress.

    So I think you need sacrifice. 7 conjured human for every human you sacrifice
     
  11. coleam

    coleam Death Eater

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    Pulling numbers out of your ass much? Where do you get 7 conjured humans per sacrifice? And that's ignoring the fact that Diary!Riddle wasn't conjured; he was a fragment of soul that was feeding on Ginny.

    As for my opinion on human conjuration, it's hard to say. Canonically, conjured snakes can at least understand Parseltongue (can't remember if they are ever seen speaking it too), which suggests to me that they have more than just basic instincts. Based on canon, I don't see anything that would necessarily make human conjuration impossible (it's all about intent, remember). However, it's never seen, so that suggests that it is either impossible, extremely difficult, or highly illegal (or that JKR never thought of it/decided to ignore it - a far more likely answer).

    The impossibility/difficulty could stem from the difficulty of imagining everything that makes a fully functional human tick. The reason behind the potential illegality would be the obvious moral quandary.
     
  12. Snarf

    Snarf Squanchin' Party Bro! ~ Prestige ~ DLP Supporter

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    I don't know of any parts of our bodies that make us substantially different from the pig McGonagall transfigured. You can then extrapolate this to most vertebrates and mammals. It would be simple to create a human without true consciousness, given a NEWT-level talent in transfiguration.

    The whole soul idea actually helps this argument, given that it is then what separates us from animals. If you remove that, you would then just have the animal instinct and body, which could easily be controlled by the will of a caster. Cedric does this in canon to a dog during the First Task.

    So many fucked up fanfiction ideas come from this ...
     
  13. Skeletaure

    Skeletaure Magical Core Enthusiast ~ Prestige ~ DLP Supporter

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    Lol, I have thought of this before <_<

    To "do a Silens", in Lords I have servants that are transfigured humans under various charms that enable them to perform tasks.

    That said, canon-wise...

    While I agree that there is little physically that makes humans different than pigs (on the grand scale of things, at least), that doesn't necessarily mean there is no magical difference. Think back to the first Transfiguration lesson: a wooden matchstick to a metal needle. Physically, these things are quite dissimilar in terms of composition. And yet the magic involved is simple enough to constitute a first lesson. It seems that matchsticks and needles are magically similar, even if they are quite physically separate.
     
  14. Sooner90

    Sooner90 Groundskeeper

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    I think we could postulate that it would be impossible for a wizard to conjure something of equal or greater complexity than him/herself.

    But, for all practical and nefarious purposes, a simulacrum would serve just as well. No need for body organs or the like. A fleshy doll + an artificial intelligence like the sorting hat, could serve the same purpose. At least it would be a convincing muggle.
     
  15. shadetz x

    shadetz x Second Year

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    Images of wizards conjuring prostitutes and pimping them out popped into my head. Plot bunny for those who want to write it.

    I would imagine that conjuring human's would be rather difficult as it would require creating an unique conscious personality with complex thoughts.
     
  16. Snarf

    Snarf Squanchin' Party Bro! ~ Prestige ~ DLP Supporter

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    I always took the matchstick to needle lesson as a lesson in size, not magical or physical composition. It's why McGonagall turned her desk into a pig. They're of comparable size so it's easier to visualize the needle you're trying to create. Making something that scales larger than the original object you're transfiguring would be hard to visualize, though I don't think it would be impossible by any means.

    The idea that different items are magically similar or dissimilar is interesting, though I'm not sure what rules could be put to it. If a wooden match and a metal needle are similarly magical, it can't be the physical properties that decide magical similarity...
     
  17. redshell

    redshell Order Member

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    This goes without saying the engorging/shrinking charms, if we are still discussing the comparable size angle of magic. Food for thought with the Rookwood's Laboratory shorts;

    -Do shrinking/engorging charms ever fade?
    -If so, when and were there outside factors (i.e. possibly a limit on how many things one wizard can shrink/engorge at one time?)
    -If not, why go through the trouble of creating an entire building when you could (theoretically) create a, say, 1:100 scale model of it out of a boulder and simply engorge that.

    On the subject of human conjuration:

    As has been discussed before, I think it is theoretically possible, but my thoughts go the Fullmetal Alchemist route, in that it is highly illegal, for the sole reason that simply creating one requires sacrifice on the level of destroying your own body (or part of it) to provide 'material' for the soul to be created with.

    Furthermore, as has also been discussed, going the route of animation would simply be easier. Create a doll, animate it. I am (reasonably) sure that the branch of animation would probably cover your animations being able to take simple instructions, like the knights animating to protect the castle (and being ordered to do so, as I recall) in the eight movie.
     
  18. El Duderino

    El Duderino Groundskeeper

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    Is it me, or does every topic on this website always get related somehow to sex?
     
  19. Skeletaure

    Skeletaure Magical Core Enthusiast ~ Prestige ~ DLP Supporter

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    Is it just me, or is every subject related to sex?
     
  20. El Duderino

    El Duderino Groundskeeper

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