Lawl thats your defense? I'm pointing out fairly reasonable suspicions that obviously I'm not alone in holding because I don't like Lungs? How about you needled the one guy who always calls you out when you try and lead the town around by the nose which is pretty much always until he exploded and every time the possibility of his returning gets brought up you immediately start stomping on it. I think its fairly obvious that you saw a good opportunity to get rid of an obstacle in the way of you leading the town around by the nose like you always do when your scum and you took it without hesitating.

 

>reads interplay between Kai and Krogan
>checks tabs
>HoT is open. :3

 

Wow, this game is so charged! I feel the intensity! Well, after perusing the thread several times, I still have no real leads on anyone. It's much harder to play mafia games online then in real life where you can get a good read on people's facial expressions and body language. I have followed most of the previous Mafia games on DLP though so I'll add my thoughts in based on some of the recurring player's behavior.

Kaidash does seem rather suspicious and flippant compared to his usual playstyle. He is usually a pretty sharp player but he hasn't really said anything insightful this game despite his many posts. There is a good chance he is a villain. I would vote for him but I want to hear his defense first. I believe everyone should have a chance to defend themselves. As for Zeitgeist who has now been replaced by Lungs, I don't think Zeitgeist was a villain. If he was a villain he probably would have been grumbling a lot less and it would silly to attract that much attention to himself if he were scum. Zeitgeist has always been an outspoken player so his behavior is not totally unexpected. I'm sure he really is that stressed out by real life, hence why he opted out to play. As for the other players, some of them seem mildly suspicious but nothing quite strong enough to warrant a direct accusation.

Hmm, Kaidash posted during my post. That wasn't much of a defense Kaidash. The rest of the town and I will be waiting for your longer post.

 

When I read this, I read it as scum defending scum. Krogan, why would you randomly defend him if you don't know his role alignment? He could be scum for all you know, and past games really shouldn't be a judge of the future ones.. What you basically did in this post that made me suspicious is that first, you defended Zeit and then accused the person who was putting pressure on him. This is only using past games as any evidence. Then, you back tracked saying maybe he is scum, but lets not rush it (this is when he only had three votes, keep in mind), so just incase he did get lynched and flipped scum, you could have an out. And then on top of that, you then proceed to try to lynch someone else when not even one more page of discussion has taken place because....

Kai was mean? Then you make a pretty hypocritical statement saying that someone else will hold up discussion after Zeit had pretty much everyone comment on his posts? How is one more likely to hold the game up then another one? Why do you advocate one and not the other? And then, after all that you say your "suspicious" of the person who even thinks to question anything you say >_>.

Zeit was already mad at the start of the game, and its understandable that he has real life issues, but whether Zeit should be part of the game on a later date should be handled by the mod, and i doubt he needs our input.

All the arguments you have seem to be based on other games, none on this one... other then Kai was mean and somehow that has generated a huge bandwagon. What if he's innocent? Do you think it would be acceptable at that point to lynch lungs? And if lungs is scum, you'd be the most likely next target... I just don't understand why you defend him so heavily, unless both of you are scum.

 

He could be Robin, defending Batman. That's one possibilty. Or they are both GCPD officers.

 

Lungs, i'd like to hear from you, not Krogan, why you don't think you should be lynched... and who you think should (I think you voted for Kai already, not to sure, if so why... Unless you posted that too, but i didn't see it)

Your most recent post didn't really add anything to the discussion... lets hear your input, and how do you feel with possibly being replaced again with Zeit in 4 days?

 

I haven't voted for Kai - I'm not completely sure he isn't just a victim of a bandwagon. That said, he sort of deserves it, imo.

I'll try to help the town as much as I need to during these 4 days. Zeit may be gone, but I intend to play with his spirit, I guess - less vehemence, maybe, but I intend to be as good a player as he was.

If I do get replaced again by Zeit, I won't complain - to be honest, I never really wanted to batmafia to begin with, and I'm really doing this as a favor to him. That said, I never do anything by halves - I'll definitely try my best.

Meanwhile, I think that this entire fiasco with Kai and my replacement has broken everyone's scumdar. I can't get a read - so I'm reading the old threads on and off (and writing/editing my blasted Beowulf essay).

 

I know previous games will be considered, even if its just subconsciously, but do you think they should really be the main points of convincing other people who is and isn't scum?

 

It has nothing to do with Zeit in particular, I don't trust Kai as far as I can throw him and I would try and advocate waiting on more or less anyone he was trying to railroad. He has a proven track record of pulling the town around by the nose and you all of following him right into a loss and I simply don't want to see it happen again. His blatant needling of Zeit and how he laughed about pushing his buttons for kicks genuinely makes me feel that his goal was to get Zeit to explode like he did so he could get him out of the game.

Also who else did I try and lynch besides Kai for reasons I am far from the only person supporting?

Rofl your joking right? I commented that it was odd how Sacrifice seemed to be stalling and he admitted he was stalling. Also no, I've already explained exactly what I meant about the "Kai is mean" thing.

Which is perfectly fair and also why I then find it suspicious that Kai is so very adamant that Zeit isn't allowed to return. Don't try and foist that off on me thank you.

I could ask you the same sorts of questions about why you seem rather insistent on turning this on me and off of Kai. People start to agree and move along with a plan of action and then suddenly you rush in and try and paint me as the bad guy and Kai as the poor underdog whose being railroaded. Do you understand that literally everything you've just said can just as easily and fairly be applied to you in relation to Kai? Also if Hush or one of the other information gatherers presented something or god if someone just came up with some sort of well reasoned argument for Lungs beyond Zeit who was under real life stress exploded when pointedly needled by Kai so he must be scum I would be happy to see Lungs put away but they haven't.

Again Kais sole reasoning for trying to lynch Zeit was after very pointedly needling him and spelling out word for word that he was trying to push Zeits buttons, Zeit exploded. Its nonsense and reeks of a half assed ploy to me on Kais part to set himself up as the leader again.

 

No. I don't think we should meta. That said, it is damn easy to meta without knowing it, and even easier to meta intentionally.

Metagaming probably breaks mafia - we're more likely to lynch dangerous people as town and NK serial lurkers as mafia. We're more likely to bring the leftover haterade and bitterness from other games - for one, I find it slightly disappointing that Krogan didn't protect Zeit as a Child of the Forest when we were the Lannisters, etc...

But I try my best to keep a level head and to make sure I'm evaluating everything fairly - whether or not people's personalities and play styles come into that evaluation? Well, unequivocally, yes. I remember how everyone plays - I can tell the difference between scum!Kai and town!Kai, etc

Again, however, I reiterate that my scumdar seems to be borked. Maybe because I was a quasi-observer-reserver-not-that-interested at the start... (I'm only building interest now)...

Similarly, I refuse to be led around. What I hated the most about HoT is in line with a bunch of opinions here, I think - Dragonstone played us masterfully. The only person who played town!hardball well in that game was Zeit, who I shared a QT with. He's left me a bunch of notes this time, to clear up the confusion, but I'm still quite unsure about this whole mess.

I guess I'm slightly disappointed in us. We're better than that. If you look at the mafia games played at most other forums, they honestly suck compared to ours. DE1 resembled what they play on a regular basis - by the time we got to StarWars, let alone Tinyhunt, etc, we'd surpassed the majority of mafia games out there, with more and more complicated rulesets.

In some ways, Batmafia is a redux!game. There's role reveal on death, and there aren't mountains and mountains of possibilities (or as many mountains, as, say, Warlock)...

That said, it's probably among the hardest game we've played or we're going to play - after maybe 2 or 3 games, we've become jaded consumers of mafia (lol). We expect everyone to have planceptions. We need highpriest!Lutris and batman!Irene and KaiBOT to lead us if we are to be lead.

The problem is that while they play damn good town, we can't be sure about their alignments in this game or future games. At this point, nearly everyone would be considered a great mafia player across the board.

So my advice is to meta, not as hard as you can possibly meta, but to meta at least a bit. People fall into personalities, etc. My false derpiness from SW1 could not stand, nor my overinflated self-importance from being the Pope in Tinyhunt

If we are to play well, we must use as many resources as we have...

 

Except, at least coming from my front, previous games kind of been irrelevant.

No, my issue here is that he's behaving like a douche in this game, and I don't want to have to deal with that longer than I have to, because it will end up causing colossal bitch-fits and nobody will have any fun at all. And maybe it's just me, but his one post deflecting or defending himself so far wasn't even targeted at me (the 'instigator' of the bandwagon, which I didn't even intend to cause, as I said in my original post, considering I was voting on principle alone), but at Krogan. Granted, Krogan's been more active, but at least from my point of view, it looks like someone trying to shift the blame onto any convenient target.

 

Me asking for Zeit not to be automatically allowed back in has 0 to do with the actual gamestate or advantages it could give me and everything to do with:

1. It's horribly unfair on lungs to be only a temp replacement (regardless of whether or not lungs is ok with it, it is still unfair)
2. Zeit has displayed poor etiquette this entire game - ranging from saying he doesn't want to play the game to swearing at other players - culminating in this http://pastebin.com/cQFeqLkB which is just completely unacceptable

I'll accept that I did display some poor etiquette, but no where near on the level of Zeit at any point.

Anyway, now that that is out of the way on to actual playing of mafia.

Silens has been out for me since basically before this started (post) and I would not be surprised at Silens/Zeit/Krogan/x scumbuddies at this point.

Krogan has been deflecting negative attention from Zeit this entire game in a way that makes me think 'protecting powerful scum' rather than 'protecting a fellow officer'.

Silens voting me for 'non game reasons' - I think this is just a way of being able to place a vote (and start a bandwagon) for me while also being able to have an excuse ('oh I was voting because hes unfun not because I thought he was scum) when it's revealed I'm town after lynchings.

Necrule... so you propose just lynching me because trying to determine whether or not I am scum is good for scum? How can this be painted as anything approaching pro town.

Ashaya wants to lynch me on the basis of 'will deadlock future days' which while relevant in early games when we were more unsure on how to play, I don't think it has any real application at all in games now.

Eternity voting for me to ensure I die. Alrighty then.

The next 4 votes are Palindrome, Riley, Aekiel and Scrib. Palindrome and Aekiel at least have somewhat decent reasoning so hopefully my play can convince you that I am actually town. Riley and Scrib just vote for me with no explanation offered.

That's it for vote analysis, but from where I'm sitting the start of it looks scummy as hell.

I just read this and it stood out so much - Why would you specifically mention the primary scum info role (and no other roles) as someone the town should follow? Is it because you share a QT with them (or you are them?) so they are on your mind? I think it is. (also, holy mother of scumslips)

Vote Player: Krogan

Krogan voted for me in #141, you voted for me in #142. I don't care about edits because I don't think they should even be a thing in these games because why should you be able to change something AFTER you have said it.

 

@ Krogan, Except i'm not defending Kai, except where was necessary to point out your extreme defense of Zeit. Also, i'm not running anywhere, This was the first time I was able to post.

@Lungs, I agree completely.

 

Or just maybe its because its honestly the only one I can think of off the top of my head that can role check people, you sound awfully desperate now Kai .

 

I think Kai is trying too hard. I think, however, that there is also a disturbing ring of truth in his accusations.

I read it, and I know there are parts of it that are entirely false (obviously, I'm not okay with accusations against me and Zeit in terms of scumhood)...

But I would like to know some things:

1. Krogan, why did you mention Hush specifically?

2. Necrule, can you explain your reasoning a little more thorougly?

3. Kai, at what point and why does Ashaya's tried and tested observation about deadlocks fall apart? You've called for lynches in the non-role reveal Hunts because people were "-ev", iirc.

4. Silens, did you intend to start a bandwagon? (I'm not really sure about this question, but I'm relatively sure it'll help my scumdar out and stuff).

5. Kai, what about Drome and Aekiel stand out to you as more pro-Town or, at least, pro-Kai than the posts of the others?

6. jwlk/Krogan, can I get more of a reason as to why you're defending/attacking me/Zeit? That entire muddle is unreadable to me. D8

 

Kai could answer that, but my best guess would be that based on past games, we're more amenable to changing our minds on who to vote for given logical arguments.

---------- Post automerged at 04:45 AM ---------- Previous post was at 04:45 AM ----------

Or at least, I know I am, and I think Drome is.

 

I am not convinced, Kaidash. With your relatively weak defence and throwing a vote to Krogan makes you look like you are just searching for a scapegoat to save your skin.

Perhaps the start of the bandwagon really is scummy, but we do after all have two 4-member mafia factions. It is a possibility that both you and Krogan are scums.

Vote Player: KaiDASH

 

Sigh I know this is going to sound flimsy but its simply the first one I could think of off the top of my head that can role check, there are so damned many roles in this game I forget what well over half of them can do.

As for why I'm defending you/Zeit, Kais reasoning for trying to have him lynched is absurd. He spelled out word for word that he was trying to push Zeits buttons for kicks and guess what it worked so obviously that must mean he's scum. If he came up with a well reasoned argument then despite my extreme distaste for his methods I'd be willing to vote for you but given their history and his actions I really truly believe he's scum who used a very underhanded method to get rid of one of his single biggest sources of opposition and now given his desperate lashing out with all these accusations I see scum who knows he's about to go down.

 

That doesn't make any sense. Good thing I didn't say that.

I said that what is happening right now, is going to happen every Day until you get lynched.

Which means people are going to have the same positions, with the same arguments, and the same voting patterns.

That is a lot of recycled information, and for those who don't have info roles, that is all we will get.

Even if you are innocent, it helps scum that you continue to live.

 

In what world does that make sense? How does being an asshat mean that he's scum? he very well could be, but I find your reasoning absurd.

Yeah no. You shouldn't judge based on older games. I suppose that it's inevitable when the same players play again and again, but people alter their play style in each game. So don't judge based on past games.

I don't really like KaiDASH, I don't like how he plays and posts in the mafia games. But here we all are, saying how we've got time and that we should not lynch at random, and then bam! Bandwaggon.
I don't know, personally. I think KaiDASH has an important role and went about it the wrong way trying to blend, but I don't really get neither a town nor a scum feel from him.